what's your personal religion?

[danielost]

I wasn't framing those maxims in Christian terms, from wiki

"(Positive form of Golden Rule): One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

(Negative form of Golden Rule): One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated (also known as the Silver Rule)."

To me it seems a natural evolution of the reciprocity and empathy we see in other apes, and other more distant species.

Of course there is another more cynical meaning; Those who have the gold, make the rules.

Perhaps but with those two laws in the bible, it would seem that the main thing to do is LOVE.

Also you can be rebaptised into another faith.

[Frank Merton]

The Buddha's message as I understand it was not love for God and fellow people but mindful compassion for all sentient beings. There are slight differences here.

[Zaphod222]

Certainly, one can compare religions. Many academics make a living in comparative religion studies. I think it's valid to make general statements sometimes. One example; any religion that enacts (or would enact if a 3rd temple was built) human or animal sacrifice, is abhorrent.

I agree. And any religion that embraces holy war and the death for apostates should be dead on arrival, too.

Modern countries are really shooting themselves in the foot with a romantic notion of "religious freedom" that includes freedom to preach hatred, misogyny and oppression.

There should be "religious freedom", but it should be within the bounds of secular freedom.

[Grandpa Greenman]

Some sort of basic axiom is needed if one is to be rational about moral behavior, rather than just going with what "feels right."

To me the foundation is Kant. When contemplating an act, consider whether you would be willing to let anyone else in the same situation do the same.

This has some problems but at least it gets one's personal interest out of the formula.

Ethics and reason, is how I was taught, my Dad was atheist. My Mom tried the Christian thing, but in the end Dad was the one who set us strait. As a Druid, education and reason is the key to moral behavior. But what is moral for some is not moral for all. In my path as long as no one is getting hurt, have fun.

[danielost]

Sometimes someone doesn't know they got hurt for years.

[Beany]

When I point out that life is a b****, I am just being realistic. It does not mean we are necessarily unhappy. That is acheivable in even the worst conditions, but I think more easily acheivable if you are realistic and recognize that the cards are stacked against you. It permits more patience, and more stoicism.

The first of the Four Noble Principles is that life is suffering. We suffer discomforts, pains, itches, nausea, grief, worry, fear, nervousness, failure, heat, cold, thirst, hunger, revulsions, and frustrations. We age and we die and we eventually realize that all pleasures are self-limiting and lead to excess and loss.

The Buddha would not say why this is the way it is, only that this is the way it is. I think that it derives from natural processes, especially natural selection and the struggle for survival and how evolution has wired us with instincts and desires and with a system of rewards and punishments designed to do nothing more than pass our genes into the next generation.

Armed with this understanding, we can deal with it and develop a detachment that in the end makes us much better off.

I disagree with the suffering bit. Yeah, we have all suffered to some degree, but that's not all that life is about. There are other things going on to. Nor do I think all pleasures are self-limiting and lead to excess and loss. To get anywhere with this, we'd probably need to come to agreement about what these words even mean. Pleasure as in imbibing alcohol or amassing a fortune, or in having power over someone? Or pleasure that comes from a walk with a grandchild, reading a good book, looking at a beautiful piece of art, or watching a sunrise or sunset? When I say pleasure I think of the latter, whereas maybe you're thinking more along the lines of the former?

It's funny, at one time I thought the cards were stacked against me, now I don't even see any cards. I guess my reference points have changed or I changed my reference points, not sure which, really. A few years ago I adopted a yearly practice of not believing anything that I didn't know to be true for myself through personal experience. So I have a very short list of beliefs these days, and am content to mostly observe and give thanks for the blessings of my life. These days I have fewer explanations & a lot more observations that may or may not lead to some worthwhile thought or idea, and if it doesn't happen I don't think the universe has lost much, if anything. I guess I'm better at admiring than philosophizing.

[SHaYap]

~snip

These days I have fewer explanations & a lot more observations that may or may not lead to some worthwhile thought or idea, and if it doesn't happen I don't think the universe has lost much, if anything. I guess I'm better at admiring than philosophizing.

I was made to believe that is but the first step ...

`

[sutemi]

I don’t adhere too or hate any religion, I chose meditation many years ago, I didn’t want second reports, I wanted to KNOW for myself. Here’s another Van Morrison song, it is a song about meditation and life ”this must be what paradise like, it so quiet in here, so peaceful in here”. PEACE the magic ingredient, the goal we all seek in whatever we do, we give it different names, satisfaction, contentment, serenity, ease, etc. Yet we carry ‘IT’ within us all the time, if we just stopped and focused inside we would know ‘IT’ in our everyday lives, but we were taught to chase materialism, taught to love our country to be nationalistic, to be political, that our God is the only true God, to acquire and hoard and told that only then would we be fulfilled. But through all this stuff, we forgot who and what we are, meditation returns us to our default to what we really are. When we return to this natural harmonious state, I am Peace, the world is my nation, every man is my brother and I wish peace and happiness for all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qrG26-R__s

“The fish are thirsty in the water and when I hear this it makes me laugh” Kabir

[Beany]

I was made to believe that is but the first step ...

`

The first and the possibly last for me. I feel like I've come full circle, after having stuffed my head with information and processed much of it, I'm back to where I started. Like the allegory of Eden, leaving with ignorance & innocence, then coming back to it after having acquired knowledge & experiences, maybe we walk back into with the capacity to more fully appreciate it.

[Beany]

I don’t adhere too or hate any religion, I chose meditation many years ago, I didn’t want second reports, I wanted to KNOW for myself. Here’s another Van Morrison song, it is a song about meditation and life ”this must be what paradise like, it so quiet in here, so peaceful in here”. PEACE the magic ingredient, the goal we all seek in whatever we do, we give it different names, satisfaction, contentment, serenity, ease, etc. Yet we carry ‘IT’ within us all the time, if we just stopped and focused inside we would know ‘IT’ in our everyday lives, but we were taught to chase materialism, taught to love our country to be nationalistic, to be political, that our God is the only true God, to acquire and hoard and told that only then would we be fulfilled. But through all this stuff, we forgot who and what we are, meditation returns us to our default to what we really are. When we return to this natural harmonious state, I am Peace, the world is my nation, every man is my brother and I wish peace and happiness for all. [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qrG26-R__s[/media]

“The fish are thirsty in the water and when I hear this it makes me laugh” Kabir

Got it. Like you, I grew tired of second-hand reports, it began to seem like information instead of knowledge. Knowledge for me comes out of experience that gives depth and becomes part of my reality. Besides, and I'm not necessarily proud of this, I've always, even as a kid, been skeptical about what other people tell me I should believe. I'm the person who's first bumper sticker said Question Authority. Did so back then, and still do so. I like to blame it on watching too much Soupy Sales, Rocky and Bullwinkle, and the Ernie Kovack show. Did you ever get the feeling much of the world is like the Nairobi Trio?

[sutemi]

The first and the possibly last for me. I feel like I've come full circle, after having stuffed my head with information and processed much of it, I'm back to where I started. Like the allegory of Eden, leaving with ignorance & innocence, then coming back to it after having acquired knowledge & experiences, maybe we walk back into with the capacity to more fully appreciate it.

“In pursuit of knowledge, every day something is added.

In the practice of the Tao, every day something is dropped.

Less and less do you need to force things, until finally you arrive at non-action.

When nothing is done, nothing is left undone.

True mastery can be gained by letting things go their own way.” Tao te Ching

[danielost]

Christ was all about the group. In this case the group includes everyone who has ever lived.

[redhen]

“In pursuit of knowledge, every day something is added.

In the practice of the Tao, every day something is dropped.

Less and less do you need to force things, until finally you arrive at non-action.

When nothing is done, nothing is left undone.

True mastery can be gained by letting things go their own way.” Tao te Ching

Or, according to the Dude de Ching;

The follower of achievement acquires as much as he can every day;

The follower of The Dude just drops in to see what condition his condition is in.

By slowing down his career he reaches a state of inaction

Wherein he does nothing, leaves nothing undone,

Which bothers some men. Beaver.

To conquer the World, take it easy;

If you must do something,

Do a J, and let the World conquer itself.

[spud the mackem]

There is only One Religeon followed by Millions.....FOOTBALL....and the big day is 12th August..kickoff.

[danielost]

I am going to go back and say getting home from helping my dad deliver newspapers. Listening to the birds and going to sleep in the car.

[libstaK]

The Golden Rule has the problem that the person is personally in how it operates. If you would like something, then do it for others, but what if what you would like is wrong? If I'm on a jury and have to decide the defendants guilt or innocence, were I the defendant I would like to be acquitted, so the Golden Rule says I should vote to aquit -- regardless of the evidence.

Only if you take into account the defendents view alone - if you look to the victim of the crime then you would want justice and therefore you would indict.

Also, if you look to what is best for the human soul aka: taking responsibility for one's actions and good mentorship to teach one to be a better person, you would also indict.

[Frank Merton]

So how do we decide? I don't want to rain on parades as much as it may seem I want to, but rationally applied rather than just an emotional slogan, the Golden Rule doesn't work too well. We see this in the rationalization you engage in. Kant's rational modification works better, and in the end we need to be wise as well as forgiving, alert as well as compassionate.

[Frank Merton]

Very few Vietnamese actively practice meditation: indeed around the world few Buddhists do. This is kinda funny, but it is generally seen as something of a waste of time. It's a bit like vegetarianism or pacifism -- the monasteries encourage it and set an example but few pay them much attention.

I think the idea of meditation for something other than monks and nuns developed in Japan and from there got to the West, especially to the US. The meditation taught in the States has to do, first, with breathing, and second with some sort of mantra or some sort of image.

It is certainly a healthy thing to do, physiologically, helping with relaxation and things like stomach upset and blood pressure. It is also a healthy thing to do mentally, helping with perspective, mindfulness, and even understanding and memory (although teachers are still needed).

But I think all this misses the point. I sit because I love it for itself and because it gives me center and takes me places I would not otherwise even know about.

[SHaYap]

There is the misconception that meditation is 'easy' and nothing worthwhile comes from doing 'easy' things ... on the contrary ... sitting still goes against every fiber of existence and how the physical body and mind evolved. Its is hard enough to meditate for 5 minutes much less 5 hours ...

Much care must be taken though because without a proper 'mentor' one can easily be lulled to over doing as my one experience taught me a harsh lesson ... I was 'out' for well over 18 hours and took me years to regain any proper footing again.

~

[ciriuslea]

Anyone else have these moments?

Not so much these days personally with life being full on, but as I get older the circumstances in which I do....get more and more basic, much like a smile from a loved one or even a cuddle from my dog, I think its just being content in the moment and with the moment

[Frank Merton]

There is the misconception that meditation is 'easy' and nothing worthwhile comes from doing 'easy' things ... on the contrary ... sitting still goes against every fiber of existence and how the physical body and mind evolved. Its is hard enough to meditate for 5 minutes much less 5 hours ...

Much care must be taken though because without a proper 'mentor' one can easily be lulled to over doing as my one experience taught me a harsh lesson ... I was 'out' for well over 18 hours and took me years to regain any proper footing again.

Sounds to me you went to excess; moderation in all things, including moderation.

I agree that instruction is needed; otherwise only boredom, or incessant itching, or sleep, will ensue, but books are available. There are some forms of meditation that I think are foolish or even dangerous. It is, for example, sometimes possible to convert an idea into a fervent, irrational belief. That is to be avoided.

Still, it is a pleasant time that I schedule and limit but look forward to, and it is not such hard work. Don't be discouraged or discouraging.

[Beany]

“In pursuit of knowledge, every day something is added.

In the practice of the Tao, every day something is dropped.

Less and less do you need to force things, until finally you arrive at non-action.

When nothing is done, nothing is left undone.

True mastery can be gained by letting things go their own way.” Tao te Ching

That is really appropriate for me, as this year's practice is letting go. I'm halfway through the year, and have already experienced the benefits of that. What's been happening is that very soon after letting go of something, the issue I was struggling with smoothed itself out without my intervention. It's slightly disconcerting that doing nothing often leads to achieving the conditions I desired. It's like there's a giant iron in the sky that swoops in and says, here, I'll iron out those wrinkles for you. Now I wonder how often in the past I made things worse through lack of trust or faith in the divine.

[SHaYap]

WHen and where and which if and what how it applies ...

~

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

There are those moments when all is right with the universe and I am at peace.

I was raised Christian Methodist, but married Baptists so that's where I've spent most of my church years.

I believe in God (higher power) but I think He checked out a long time ago. We as humans were an experiment gone wrong and He's moved on. I think we are now pretty much on our own.

I do believe in life after death as in we continue to exist in some way but perhaps not the streets of gold, harps and butterflies kind of thing. Not even sure about the eternal damnation thing, either.

Happiness is where you find it, fate is what you make it, and your destiny is in your own hands.

Why would god just check out, why wouldn't he just start over from scratch?

I was raised as a Jehovah's witness. my grandma, my aunts, and my uncles were to. I believe in god and I also believe that Satan is real and him and his demons and all that follows.

[danielost]

Only if you take into account the defendents view alone - if you look to the victim of the crime then you would want justice and therefore you would indict.

Also, if you look to what is best for the human soul aka: taking responsibility for one's actions and good mentorship to teach one to be a better person, you would also indict.

I think it would be more in following the trail and making the right ruling. Is that not what you would want if yur in the others shoes, victum and defendent.