Atheists unveil monument by Ten Commandments

[docyabut2]

A monument to atheism now sits near a granite slab that lists the Ten Commandments outside a courthouse in a conservative north Florida town

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/29/atheists-unveil-monument-by-ten-commandments/?test=latestnews#ixzz2XeCpPWP9

ya right so where did our justice system get the laws of do not kill, steal, cheat, or lie ?

[Clarakore]

Great idea and other groups should have their own monuments too.

Both groups though, Christians and atheists, have been so good about telling us what they are against it can become difficult for outsiders to understand what they are for.

Maybe new monuments for both should consider that.

[Bavarian Raven]

ya right so where did our justice system get the laws of do not kill, steal, cheat, or lie ?

From Germanic Paganism - which had said laws way before christianity ever existed... lol.

That being said, let them have their momument. They have just as much right to it as the religious people do.

[Clarakore]

From Germanic Paganism - which had said laws way before christianity ever existed... lol.

That being said, let them have their momument. They have just as much right to it as the religious people do.

Actually Germanic pagan tribes, such as the Franks, used blood feud as their law. If someone hurt or cheated your family it was then upon you to gather others and go get revenge.

It was not until the Franks left the forests and entered France where they ran into the Romans and their concepts of magistrates and the rule of law as we know it now.

Edited June 29, 2013 by The world needs you

[Bavarian Raven]

Actually Germanic pagan tribes, such as the Franks, used blood feud as their law. If someone hurt or cheated your family it was then upon you to gather others and go get revenge.

It was not until the Franks left the forests and entered France where they ran into the Romans and their concepts of magistrates and the rule of law as we know it now.

Blood fued was only used in some cases and in some tribes. Still, on the whole, the germanic tribes were far more civilized (everything from women being able to own land, to cleanliness, etc), then the christanized people to the south. It's ironic, really.

[Clarakore]

Blood fued was only used in some cases and in some tribes. Still, on the whole, the germanic tribes were far more civilized (everything from women being able to own land, to cleanliness, etc), then the christanized people to the south. It's ironic, really.

That was not a defense of the Judeo-Christian views. While it did say "thou shall not kill" they defined it differently. A child who talked bad to a parent or a couple in an affair were up for a stoning in ancient Israel. Slaughtering every man, woman, child, and animal of another tribe was perfectly legal then.

It just might be the Romans also civilized the Israelite barbaric and tribal nature but the modern State of Israel seems to be a regression of sorts then.

The Romans were more civilized than both in my view.

Vendetta was more widespread among ancient Germans than you might be presenting it.

Edited June 29, 2013 by The world needs you

[+and-then]

Actually Germanic pagan tribes, such as the Franks, used blood feud as their law. If someone hurt or cheated your family it was then upon you to gather others and go get revenge.

It was not until the Franks left the forests and entered France where they ran into the Romans and their concepts of magistrates and the rule of law as we know it now.

Most people who are threatened with annihilation for centuries will cop an attitude good on'em for it.

[Bavarian Raven]

Vendetta was more widespread among ancient Germans than you might be presenting it.

Never said it wasn't common, but that on a whole the germanic societies pre-christianity were were civilized in general in many cultural/health/moral ways...

[Clarakore]

Most people who are threatened with annihilation for centuries will cop an attitude good on'em for it.

While "attitude" can be considered it does not really explain or excuse how some societies are barbaric while others are progressive.

To the credit of the Israelis they are not too far behind, just going on 518 years, compared to the Europeans.

It was not until the 1495 Diet of Worms when the feud was finally eradicated. The Franks first invaded Gaul in 405 or 406 so roughly 1,000 years to learn new ways and then make it final.

The Perpetual Public Peace. Worms, August 7, 1495

That from this moment on, no person of whatever rank, status, or condition shall make war on others, or rob, declare feud with, invade, or besiege them, or help anyone else to do so in person or through servitors; or violently occupy any castle, town, market, fortress, village, farmstead, or hamlet, or seize them illegally against another's will, or damage them with fire or in any other way, or assist by word or deed or in any other way support or supply any perpetrators of such deeds, or knowingly harbor, house, feed, or give drink, aid, and comfort to such persons.

On the contrary, whoever has a quarrel with another shall take his case to the courts and tribunals that have settled such cases in the past, and such matters now belong and will continue to belong in the future under the law establishing the Imperial Supreme Court.

http://germanhistory...ocument_id=3795

Consider me a bigger fan of the public peace and using the rule of law to settle differences with neighbors. The Israeli methods are tribalistic and regressive.

Didn't the Ashkenazi first enter Palestine in the 1800s? So roughly 800 more years of their backwardness to go...but I have a feeling it will transpire more rapidly than that.

Edited June 29, 2013 by The world needs you

[danielost]

From Germanic Paganism - which had said laws way before christianity ever existed... lol.

That being said, let them have their momument. They have just as much right to it as the religious people do.

The ten commandments have been around long before christianity. Besides I think the german tribes are part of the missing isrealites.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

The ten commandments have been around long before christianity. Besides I think the german tribes are part of the missing isrealites.

Yes well, you also think that some Indian tribes are part of the missing Israelites.

[danielost]

Yes well, you also think that some Indian tribes are part of the missing Israelites.

No I think all of indians are part of the isrealites. But, they left before the ten tribes disappeared. well at least most of them are. The book of mormon talks about three groups. The first two were isrealites, the third one just gets mentioned. I personally think sojme of the indians come from the first two groups that according to the book of mormon were destroyed by god. But, there has never been a complete cleansing of a race. Even the flood story goes out of its way to make sure we know tht one of cains daughters survived the flood.

[Arbenol]

ya right so where did our justice system get the laws of do not kill, steal, cheat, or lie ?

You don't think people had this figured out before it was written in a book?

[danielost]

I think I have say yes they did. Since the ten commandments are much older than the book. Talking jews book not christihan book.

[redhen]

I understand the secular and atheist quotes from Jefferson and Franklin, etc., but was it really necessary to carve in some of the more brutal prescriptions of the OT? I'm betting this new bench won't last a week.

I've been trying to find what's actually on the bench, besides the prominent Madalyn Murray O'Hair quote. I found that they chose this line from Article 11 of the 1796 Treaty of Tripoli;

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"

Of course context is everything, here's the rest of the paragraph;

",-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Yup, U.S.A., appeasing Jihadi terrorists and pirates since 1796.

[Irrelevant]

This is why we need to update the ol,

"Separation of Church and State"

To:

"Separation of Beliefs and State"

There's new belief systems beginning to run society such as Atheism, Feminism, Socialism,Communism etc..

And before anybody says Atheism is not a belief system , the reason it MUST be a belief system is because Nobody has EVER proven God does not exist. Indeed science can only suggest reasons why God need not exist , which is a different point of view.

And nobody has ever had a spiritual experience with the Flying Spaghetti Monster ( the Atheist derision of God), yet all around the world people of different religious beliefs have had similar spiritual experience..and this has been going on for millennia, only these experience are so individual they can not be repeated or demonstrated by science, after all a experience with God is at Gods choosing not ours. We are object , he is subject!

[Babe Ruth]

Cool!

[F3SS]

A monument erected by a large organization with the intent to make others aware and also to spread their beliefs and battle another belief system.

Looks and sounds an awful lot like religion to me.

[danielost]

As long as it is done with respect of the other monuments there it is fine.

[Almagest]

The burden of proof is not on Atheists. Frankly I think any kind of concrete morality is bad, there are exceptions to all of the Ten Commandments, and I think they fly in the face of Modern America. With no lying, stealing or covetting there'd be no capitalism. With no killing the Military Industrial Complex completely disintegrates. Adhering to the monotheistic parts of the Ten Commandments leaves no room for Hindus, or Buddhists, or pagans, or non-believers. Some people would include Catholicism as a polytheistic religion, with its trinity and plethora of saints.

[MiskatonicGrad]

You don't think people had this figured out before it was written in a book?

read the front page of any newspaper or watch the first 5 minutes on the evening news people haven't figured it out yet.

[preacherman76]

Blood fued was only used in some cases and in some tribes. Still, on the whole, the germanic tribes were far more civilized (everything from women being able to own land, to cleanliness, etc), then the christanized people to the south. It's ironic, really.

Yea those human sacrifices made for some good family fun.

[Arbenol]

read the front page of any newspaper or watch the first 5 minutes on the evening news people haven't figured it out yet.

OK. I can see why you misunderstood. For 'people', read 'societies'. Of course there will always be individuals who cheat, steal, maim and kill. Societies can only function when these rules are observed. Civilisations pre-exist the Bible. If they hadn't figured out what rules keep a society functional they wouldn't, by definition, be a society (or, at least, not for long)