Croatia becomes 28th EU member

[keithisco]

I think I should point out that there are employment restrictions placed on Croatian Citizens (after accession) based on on the 2+3+2 rule: an initial limit of 2 years followed by another 3 and a further 2 years but with justified reason. In fairness, Croatia can also apply the same rules to all EU Nations that apply these rules.

Essentially it comes down to this: France, UK, Germany, Italy the Netherlands, Belgium , Spain, Luxembourg and several others, will apply restrictions. So there is no immediate threat of mass migration from Croatia. Highly qualified candidates will have no restrictions placed on them.

Give Stevewinn his credit though... prior to the 1984 enlargement the EU was on track both Industrially and Financially to be a major force in the World. BUT... the EU was never solely about monetary gain for any specific Nation, it was always envisaged, even at its inception, as a Political Union of European Democracies.

Where it has failed is allowing nascent Democracies, who do not have Democratic principles at its very heart, entry into a wider Union where democracy has a much broader and accepted place in the psyche of the people (I include Spain and Greece in these).

I believe the UK has actually outgrown the EU, and as such should withdraw with grace... it has sufficient contacts around the World to still be successful, it has the Commonwealth of Nations to trade with, and of course re-entry into EFTA. There might be a couple of difficult years when the EU raises huge tarrifs against UK imports, but then, the WTO would cry "Foul" and trade would normalise again.

For myself, I am an EU Proponent (no surprise there) with no aignst against Croatia at all, but with severe and strong opposition to Romania and Albania (they have been a blight on Spain).

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I cannot believe your asking the question what does the United Kingdom offer Croatia. the bloody cheek of it, the UK offers your citizens ten times more and then some what your own country cannot offer its own citizens, like all the other mickey mouse countries, who are basically nothing but a collection of failed states, huddling together under the EU umbrella, wanting the economic security and military security offered by the likes of the United Kingdom.

your postcards are nice, but get with the program, as a country and now a EU member what is your country bringing to the EU table? besides the begging bowl, another one at the trough. with your 16% unemployment, high levels of corruption, - no doubt we'll be flooded with Croatians now. bloody marvellous.

i just cannot believe what the hell is going on with the EU, it had the potential to be everything and the way its gone it'll end up as nothing. out of the three big economies and the handful of wealthy northern members we had the chance to take on the world. in every sense of the word, but forget that with each passing and now with every despot clinger on hanging on to our shirt tails were carrying dead weight.

Vote UKIP and lets be done with this load of **** once and for all,

Listen steve,

Its obvious you dont have clue what you talking about. Especially in term of economy.

Who cares about UK? Its century of USA if you didnt noticed. and in future it will be BRIC plus Next11. Now I suggest you do your research and google.

You will notice that Turkey is among Next11 and if you search Turkey economy you will notice that Turkey HAS more to offer then UK.

So by mentioning Turkey and notation "what it have to offer" you just proove my point.

Reason why my country cant have offer what your country can is because we have had BRUTAL war. EU need us same as we needs EU.

There is no friendship among countries. Only interests. Unless you think that UK as one of EU member is stupid to say yes to Croatia for some imaginary reason.

BTW what your country offer to many citizens is racial thinging aswell.

Also lets not pretend that EU dont have problems. Recently national TV in Greece was shutdown (censorship), etc.

You like to speak about geopolitics and economic yet you dont have clue what you talking about. As I said typical imperialistic trash talking.

As example I will choose (among else) your notation about Iceland. Thats probably hurts because they let two English banks to collapsed. And after UK called their goverment terrorist and even send Warships Iceland simply say "British get lost with your hegemony."

Croatia historiclly speaking have had state while British didnt exist at all. We even abolish slavery before you did.

When we have kingdoms while in your country was spoken language French.

Economicly speaking we are promising. While Croatia have two golden ages in 19 century and 1970s our third golden age will come soon.

Croatia can be out of crysis from one year and to even remove taxes in two years.

My postcard should gave you picture of our potential. Croatia in third quartal, 7,8,9, month working or not have earns. Thats because of tourism.

What happened to EU is because neo liberal politics. We need different model welfare states.

Look China. Its communism on power. So democracy didnt won battle. Communism did.

Welfare state is ONLY solution to EU.

You seems to do NOT understand what invesments means. There are different types of investments. If country use EU money for building infrastrucuture that country will collapsed.

But if you use investments into production that country will flourish. So please be so kind and give us a chance to see how Croats will use their own investments.

Im 100% positive it will be production since we have infrastructure. Beside knowledge, capital, natural resources.

We are third country in world for driniking nature water. We have amazing shore. We have textile industry. We have shipbuildings plants. We have GREAT potential for agriculture. We have tourism. From health tourism to jet set tourism.

You spoke beasuce you are affraid of competitivity. What do you think that Bulgars and Romanians will not came to Croatia to work?

Its price you must pay. So do British. Get real. British are not better or superior race then any other. Your mind is still in British Empire. Which is gone for good.

And you are not important player in EU. Two major players are France and Germany. Also our greatest commerical partner is Italy.

If British dont have nothing from Croatia then why did you buy land on peninsula Pelje¨ac? ...

Edited July 1, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

What about EU and protectionism? Hows that fitt into your view of free trade and EU?

What you also dont understand is that we have world war III already going. Its financial war. Dolar vs Euro vs Yuan.

But what you obviously dont understand steve is basic economic.

Here is some for you.

Globalization cause trade. Eu is internal globalization.

Trade cause specialization. EU countries will specalized. Specialization cause efficency.

EU and UK as member will become efficent.

Your goverment knows that, you dont. Thats why they vote yes. Its all about interests. We share common goal steve.

Edited July 1, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

All developed societies have three things: Natural resources, Capital, Labour.

We have all. Plus money.

What we dont have is product. But its hard to me to explain it to someone who dont have basics of economy.

We will be self efficent.

While British France Germany will not. That advantage of being small.

And not to talk about geoplitic position of our country.

Tell me from where EU got Gas? Hint Russia.

From where Italy got gas? Croatia.

I wonder why do you think you deserve to be in EU and not Croatia? British worth more then Croats?

Edited July 1, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Steve in the end...

Economy is science. Its self correcting. There are many unproven theories in economy which we use as basic facts.

Free trade is BS. Invisible hand is only on papers. And in perfect economy. And there is no such thing as perfect economy therefore free trade CANT work.

There are many paradoxes in economy.

Realy basics of economy tells us that if price go high demand will go low. Which also prooven to be wrong

Economy we have today took humans as robots, machines. Humans are emotional being. Many things can effect humnas.

Thats why positivism rescue capitalim in 1930s.

Steve to not turn this into economy lecture. Lets consider few FACTS here.

1.The level of debt in the CEE (Cental East Europe) region is significantly lower than in Western Europe.

2.The need for external financing lower than what is perceived by the public.

Often concern was expressed that the CEE is heavily indebted, or to certain countries could suffer huge losses due to their exposure to the region. In addition, concern has been further enhanced by the news that Eastern Europe borrowed $ 1.7 trillion in 2009 year to pay or refinance 400 billion dolars. Based on in-depth analysis of the data, methodology and logic behind these figures, analysts conclude that the data is consolidated by Bank for International Settlements extremely inaccurately interpreted.

The main thing we have to distinguish between related information on the $ 1.7 trillion is the fact that this figure includes money borrowed from abroad and loans provided by (or funded) local branches of foreign banks in local markets.

For example, the Czech economy has borrowed from banks that send reports to the BIS only $ 55 billion, while they borrowed $ 26 billion. Thus, the next debt of only $ 29 billion, which represents only one seventh the amount of $ 191 billion of total claims included in the consolidated statements of BIS. Another example of misinterpretation of data BIS is the information on the Austrian loan 70-80% of GDP in Eastern Europe. The vast majority of claims included in this figure is the fact that the local assets and accounted for and financed (average at least two thirds of the countries in which they are present Austrian banks). This is often misinterpreted as external funding or financing region. However, this indicator does not show funding CEE.

Analysts suggest that the next external debt (amounts borrowed from abroad, less the amount borrowed abroad), and gross external debt, should be the benchmark for the analysis of the problem of funding. Accordingly, the netto positions of banks that send reports to the BIS (mean net external debt less loans within companies that are counted as FDI) provide a comparable picture of external indebtedness of countries. For example, this analysis shows that the netto foreign debt of Hungary is not a big problem in an international context, and that is even lower than in the six countries of the Eurozone.

By analyzing data BIS, we can see that the indebtedness of CEE and its dependence on foreign funding is actually negligible compared with those in Western Europe. For example, a number of Western European countries "borrowed abroad" more (Germany $ 2.3 trillion, $ 1.9 trillion Netherlands, UK 4.5 trillion), but the entire region of Eastern Europe, which consists of 20 countries, including Ukraine, Turkey and Russia.Some Western countries have medium size back or refinance even larger amount of debt few years back year (Belgium $ 375 billion, Ireland $ 477 billion and the Netherlands 550 billion) than the entire Eastern Europe.

Latest report on CEE giving the impression that this region is very in debt. However, the opposite is true: CEE countries that have the highest levels of debt are just close to the euro area average. Low level of indebtedness is crucial because it increases the likelihood of debt servicing. While debt cover a small portion of GDP, monthly loan repayments also take a relatively low share of the budget of households, providing greater flexibility households in CEE in adapting slowing economy.

Public debt in CEE significantly lower compared to the debt of countries in Western Europe. Funding will be in the current environment continues to be tight, but generally low level of indebtedness markedly reduces the risk of default. Since the level is low in absolute and relative terms, there is still room to increase the debt (which is not funded by the market) without shocks to public finances, analysts conclude.

So first do your homework, steve.

Edited July 1, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

And if you are interested in economy of Croatia I would gladly give all numbers. But I doubt you would understand them. No offence.

We can argued who and why use this propaganda how west saving east Europe.

Its nothing then propaganda. And I have my views who and why. But thats another story.

Edited July 1, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

To not turn this into anti steve thread I call you steve to celebrete with us.

Edited July 1, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Why do ppl keep brining up Portugal or Greece in these matters? You act like the EU is the reason why they are in crisis. While the exact opposite is true. They were headed for extreme crisis and the EU offered them a plan to save them. It might be harsh, but if you let things get that far they shouldn't expect a free hand-out. Especially Greece has shown to abuse support, so now the ropes have been tightened. If they want help, they better do their part. Without the EU they would be far worse off.

The euro is already accepted in most places in Croatia.

In the case of Portugal and Greece reasons are mystery to me. Since I didnt investigate. But I did investigated Cyprus, Ireland ans Spain....

I guess Portugal is like Ireland and Spain. Its all about goverment.

Croatia is little differnet. We have had bloody war.

I have one theory about Greece which is not popular. And is that Greece was Trojan horse by USA to EU.

Edited July 1, 2013 by the L

[odas]

I cannot believe your asking the question what does the United Kingdom offer Croatia. the bloody cheek of it, the UK offers your citizens ten times more and then some what your own country cannot offer its own citizens, like all the other mickey mouse countries, who are basically nothing but a collection of failed states, huddling together under the EU umbrella, wanting the economic security and military security offered by the likes of the United Kingdom.

your postcards are nice, but get with the program, as a country and now a EU member what is your country bringing to the EU table? besides the begging bowl, another one at the trough. with your 16% unemployment, high levels of corruption, - no doubt we'll be flooded with Croatians now. bloody marvellous.

i just cannot believe what the hell is going on with the EU, it had the potential to be everything and the way its gone it'll end up as nothing. out of the three big economies and the handful of wealthy northern members we had the chance to take on the world. in every sense of the word, but forget that with each passing and now with every despot clinger on hanging on to our shirt tails were carrying dead weight.

Vote UKIP and lets be done with this load of **** once and for all,

First, congratulations to Croatia. Well deserved.

Steve:

I understand your fears. Your country has suffered a great deal of cheap foreign labour, shmuks that live on wellfare, criminals..from europe countries as well as from third world countries. BUT I can assure you that you will not have that experience with Croats. You will not have this experience either with Bosnians or Serbs. They will not work for cheap. Trust me. They are greedy. Greed also makes them work hard, study, learn a different language, fit in...

Steve, you alrady have ExYu's in the UK. How many of them receive government help?

Minimal in numbers. Also, most croats, if they want to work inside the EU will chose Germany, Austria. The vast majority will stay where they are, in Croatia. Of course politicians will screw up some things, that is a given. But your politicians are not better.

Give Croatia a chance. Come and visit Split, Dubrovnik....there is no other coast line like that in the world.

Visit Zagreb, Osijek....good people, good food.

I have been there, I know what I am talking about.

[Professor Buzzkill]

Why do ppl keep brining up Portugal or Greece in these matters? You act like the EU is the reason why they are in crisis. While the exact opposite is true. They were headed for extreme crisis and the EU offered them a plan to save them. It might be harsh, but if you let things get that far they shouldn't expect a free hand-out. Especially Greece has shown to abuse support, so now the ropes have been tightened. If they want help, they better do their part. Without the EU they would be far worse off.

The euro is already accepted in most places in Croatia.

Bolded part is not exactly true. While it is the fault of the elected government (and therefore the people of Greece and Portugal) that their respective economies have collapsed, the Euro is now, metaphorically, the concrete slipper around these sinking countries. Normally in an economic crisis, a government would use its most rudimentary tools to try and control the crisis. One of these tools is artificial inflation of the currency. This means that other countries will invest in the country in crisis as it offers "value for money" in comparison to another currency. Now that the Euro is the sole currency, a country in crisis is trapped in austerity for far longer than they would be with a separately controlled currency.

Edit. Congrats Croatia, for believing the propaganda about a united Europe. I am sorry if you feel differently but i believe that any governing body should be held accountable by voters, unlike the EU

Edited July 2, 2013 by Professor Buzzkill

[questionmark]

Bolded part is not exactly true. While it is the fault of the elected government (and therefore the people of Greece and Portugal) that their respective economies have collapsed, the Euro is now, metaphorically, the concrete slipper around these sinking countries. Normally in an economic crisis, a government would use its most rudimentary tools to try and control the crisis. One of these tools is artificial inflation of the currency. This means that other countries will invest in the country in crisis as it offers "value for money" in comparison to another currency. Now that the Euro is the sole currency, a country in crisis is trapped in austerity for far longer than they would be with a separately controlled currency.

Edit. Congrats Croatia, for believing the propaganda about a united Europe. I am sorry if you feel differently but i believe that any governing body should be held accountable by voters, unlike the EU

You mean letting them penniless would have worked better?

Yes, there was an emphasis on saving the banks (now known to be an error, hence the new measures of letting banks fail at the expense of shareholders, savers and creditors), but there was also Greece only admitting what could not be denied anymore and using every trick in the book to make its plutocrats richer at the expense of the European taxpayer which prompted real stiff measures.

[spud the mackem]

If Croatia is as good as the residents say it is,why ar'nt the rest of Europe migrating to that "wonderfull" country.Don't brag too much you guys,you'll have all the Poles in England applying for entrance.

[keithisco]

Bolded part is not exactly true. While it is the fault of the elected government (and therefore the people of Greece and Portugal) that their respective economies have collapsed, the Euro is now, metaphorically, the concrete slipper around these sinking countries. Normally in an economic crisis, a government would use its most rudimentary tools to try and control the crisis. One of these tools is artificial inflation of the currency. This means that other countries will invest in the country in crisis as it offers "value for money" in comparison to another currency. Now that the Euro is the sole currency, a country in crisis is trapped in austerity for far longer than they would be with a separately controlled currency.

Edit. Congrats Croatia, for believing the propaganda about a united Europe. I am sorry if you feel differently but i believe that any governing body should be held accountable by voters, unlike the EU

...and yet, the Euro has survived and gaining FX momentum WITHOUT resorting to any artificial means. Quantitative Easing is not a serious concern within the Eurozone, but the USA has been pumping a trillion dollars a year (i.e. printing Money without performance improvements) which will have to be paid for looking forward.

The Euro is here to stay, and backed by the most powerful economic Bloc in the World, we just need Political Unity for it to really become the power it is meant to be.

Let the UK leave the EU, it could then become the Euro offshore bank and that will suit everyone. IMO

[keithisco]

If Croatia is as good as the residents say it is,why ar'nt the rest of Europe migrating to that "wonderfull" country.Don't brag too much you guys,you'll have all the Poles in England applying for entrance.

Because there are too many people who are ignorant of the splendour that is Croatia?.

Thousands of UK Residents are looking seriously at Croatia for investment, even though I am a Spanish Resident I am also looking to invest there, not just property, but to start up businesses there as well to employ the local population... same as I do in Spain

Edited July 2, 2013 by keithisco

[Almagest]

Nobody gives the EU credit for ensuring that France and Germany play nice? Since the end of WW2 and particularly since the fall of Communism, we have witnessed a more peaceful Europe than we have ever seen before. Does anyone know of a period of 68 years before the 20th without a war in Europe involving either Britain, Russia, Germany, Spain, Italy or France?

[ciriuslea]

There has to be some benefit to Croatia joining at such a time when some countries are seriously thinking about their own memberships, if its not so obvious now it will soon be.

Edited July 2, 2013 by ciriuslea

[stevewinn]

Nobody gives the EU credit for ensuring that France and Germany play nice? Since the end of WW2 and particularly since the fall of Communism, we have witnessed a more peaceful Europe than we have ever seen before. Does anyone know of a period of 68 years before the 20th without a war in Europe involving either Britain, Russia, Germany, Spain, Italy or France?

if no one gives the EU credit for peace in europe, then the same can be said of the hundreds of thousands of British and American troops stationed in Germany, i watched the european parliament only a few months back, after it received the nobel peace prize self congratulating themselves single handily bringing about peace in europe not one mention, NOT one mention of the thousands of allied troops stationed in europe, bringing stability and keeping things in check. it wasnt that long ago Germany was split in two by the Berlin wall, it was a case of East versus West, good versus evil with Russian, all being played out - smack in the middle of the cold war, after world war two no-one had the ability or money to launch another european war, and with a common enemy in Russia everyone hand their eye on the commies. more fearful in being attacked by Russia than any of their neighbours - for most countries in europe it truly was my enemies enemy is my friend. all these events in a wider scope kept peace in europe, here am talking about full scale wars.

when things looked promising the peace in europe was shattered when in the the late 80's early 1990's - the Balklans kicked off, and this ties in nicely with Croatia. a former state in the country of Yugoslavia. in this part of the world you'll find some of the most racist countries in the world. and to make it clear im including Croatia. just look at all the ethnic cleansing, and genocide carried out. anyone can google Croatian war crimes. and remember this is all within living memory, within the last 30 years. and if you want to go back further to World War 2, they were at it again, committing mass murder, genocide. where was the biggest concentration camp outside of Germany?. - Croatia, the jasenovac concentration camp. who operated the camps. Croatians. - the Ustase, who some same were more brutal than the German SS. and do people really believe Croatia is a worthy member of the EU, dont tell me this mentality has gone within 30 years. so when i sit here and the Croats go on about how nice they are, am sure they are individually, but collectively they want to take a long hard look in the mirror. - its no wonder they have become EU members, these days its only the racist and demographical challenged countries who are accepted and want to join. Croatia for me has not earned the right to join the EU. with a troubled recent history, a plummeting population, birth rate, - economy in trouble, Five straight years in recession, rising unemployment. just look at the Balkans region as a whole, another quagmire, and no doubt will need vast funding by the EU.

if anyone thinks am being harsh, not at all just telling it - as it is, all written can be searched/Google by anyone.

am still waiting for a response of what Croatia is bringing to the EU table?

Edited July 2, 2013 by stevewinn

[keithisco]

if no one gives the EU credit for peace in europe, then the same can be said of the hundreds of thousands of British and American troops stationed in Germany, i watched the european parliament only a few months back, after it received the nobel peace prize self congratulating themselves single handily bringing about peace in europe not one mention, NOT one mention of the thousands of allied troops stationed in europe, bringing stability and keeping things in check. it wasnt that long ago Germany was split in two by the Berlin wall, it was a case of East versus West, good versus evil with Russian, all being played out - smack in the middle of the cold war, after world war two no-one had the ability or money to launch another european war, and with a common enemy in Russia everyone hand their eye on the commies. more fearful in being attacked by Russia than any of their neighbours - for most countries in europe it truly was my enemies enemy is my friend. all these events in a wider scope kept peace in europe, here am talking about full scale wars.

when things looked promising the peace in europe was shattered when in the the late 80's early 1990's - the Balklans kicked off, and this ties in nicely with Croatia. a former state in the country of Yugoslavia. in this part of the world you'll find some of the most racist countries in the world. and to make it clear im including Croatia. just look at all the ethnic cleansing, and genocide carried out. anyone can google Croatian war crimes. and remember this is all within living memory, within the last 30 years. and if you want to go back further to World War 2, they were at it again, committing mass murder, genocide. where was the biggest concentration camp outside of Germany?. - Croatia, the jasenovac concentration camp. who operated the camps. Croatians. - the Ustase, who some same were more brutal than the German SS. and do people really believe Croatia is a worthy member of the EU, dont tell me this mentality has gone within 30 years. so when i sit here and the Croats go on about how nice they are, am sure they are individually, but collectively they want to take a long hard look in the mirror. - its no wonder they have become EU members, these days its only the racist and demographical challenged countries who are accepted and want to join. Croatia for me has not earned the right to join the EU. with a troubled recent history, a plummeting population, birth rate, - economy in trouble, Five straight years in recession, rising unemployment. just look at the Balkans region as a whole, another quagmire, and no doubt will need vast funding by the EU.

if anyone thinks am being harsh, not at all just telling it - as it is, all written can be searched/Google by anyone.

am still waiting for a response of what Croatia is bringing to the EU table?

You forget again that the UK is a member of the EU so the award is equally distributed there as well. To be fair, then the award should have gone to NATO because USA troops were the backbone of resistance to the USSR and its Puppet States.

War is a horrible human construct, but Croatia was fighting for its independence from Soviet controlled Yugoslavia and they finally succeeded. There are always horror stories in war, but Croatia was never accused of Genocide (against whom?) The Serbian Croat Milan Martić WAS convicted of war crimes and is currently serving 35 yrs in prison.

Croatia is a member of NATO, WTO and the EU, they bring natural resources to the table (not outstanding I aggree), amazing tourist and investment opportunities. Look at what some of th eOld Guard in the EU bring to the the table Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Denmark, Cyprus, Malta, Greece etc etc and then you will realise that like for like comparisons are inequitable. What did the UK bring to the table? Financial sector (internalised of no EU Benefit) Coal (almost a dead horse) Oil (not shared) the list goes on. The EU is still effectively just a big trading Union, nothing more so Croatis does not have to give up its resources to join.

[odas]

if no one gives the EU credit for peace in europe, then the same can be said of the hundreds of thousands of British and American troops stationed in Germany, i watched the european parliament only a few months back, after it received the nobel peace prize self congratulating themselves single handily bringing about peace in europe not one mention, NOT one mention of the thousands of allied troops stationed in europe, bringing stability and keeping things in check. it wasnt that long ago Germany was split in two by the Berlin wall, it was a case of East versus West, good versus evil with Russian, all being played out - smack in the middle of the cold war, after world war two no-one had the ability or money to launch another european war, and with a common enemy in Russia everyone hand their eye on the commies. more fearful in being attacked by Russia than any of their neighbours - for most countries in europe it truly was my enemies enemy is my friend. all these events in a wider scope kept peace in europe, here am talking about full scale wars.

when things looked promising the peace in europe was shattered when in the the late 80's early 1990's - the Balklans kicked off, and this ties in nicely with Croatia. a former state in the country of Yugoslavia. in this part of the world you'll find some of the most racist countries in the world. and to make it clear im including Croatia. just look at all the ethnic cleansing, and genocide carried out. anyone can google Croatian war crimes. and remember this is all within living memory, within the last 30 years. and if you want to go back further to World War 2, they were at it again, committing mass murder, genocide. where was the biggest concentration camp outside of Germany?. - Croatia, the jasenovac concentration camp. who operated the camps. Croatians. - the Ustase, who some same were more brutal than the German SS. and do people really believe Croatia is a worthy member of the EU, dont tell me this mentality has gone within 30 years. so when i sit here and the Croats go on about how nice they are, am sure they are individually, but collectively they want to take a long hard look in the mirror. - its no wonder they have become EU members, these days its only the racist and demographical challenged countries who are accepted and want to join. Croatia for me has not earned the right to join the EU. with a troubled recent history, a plummeting population, birth rate, - economy in trouble, Five straight years in recession, rising unemployment. just look at the Balkans region as a whole, another quagmire, and no doubt will need vast funding by the EU.

if anyone thinks am being harsh, not at all just telling it - as it is, all written can be searched/Google by anyone.

am still waiting for a response of what Croatia is bringing to the EU table?

And all that from a brit whose country waged war against 97% of the planets states?

But you would not remember all the killing, rape, torture thst Britain did and still does all over the world, wouldn'tya?

[Helen of Annoy]

am still waiting for a response of what Croatia is bringing to the EU table?

Patience, patience, you’ll see what, just don’t choke on it, it’s rather large.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

You forget again that the UK is a member of the EU so the award is equally distributed there as well. To be fair, then the award should have gone to NATO because USA troops were the backbone of resistance to the USSR and its Puppet States.

War is a horrible human construct, but Croatia was fighting for its independence from Soviet controlled Yugoslavia and they finally succeeded. There are always horror stories in war, but Croatia was never accused of Genocide (against whom?) The Serbian Croat Milan Martić WAS convicted of war crimes and is currently serving 35 yrs in prison.

Croatia is a member of NATO, WTO and the EU, they bring natural resources to the table (not outstanding I agree), amazing tourist and investment opportunities. Look at what some of th eOld Guard in the EU bring to the the table Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Denmark, Cyprus, Malta, Greece etc etc and then you will realise that like for like comparisons are inequitable. What did the UK bring to the table? Financial sector (internalised of no EU Benefit) Coal (almost a dead horse) Oil (not shared) the list goes on. The EU is still effectively just a big trading Union, nothing more so Croatis does not have to give up its resources to join.

Croatia isnt accused for crime but there were crimes in our war. As in everyone. But I gladly announce that our country put on trial those individuals who done crimes. Nevertheless this isnt story about our war. If so Brittish would be banned from United Nations for their crimes in history.

Natural resources are only one tiny tiny part of economy. There are theories in economy where society rich in nonrenewable resources are way behind then those who are not rich with resources. Also we have land. Slavonia. Part of Croatia which is fertile as Chinese rice in South China.

Stevin as others who are against EU (I dont blame him since he isnt probably educated in economics and gave his view from point he look upon it) dont realize that point of globalization IS that rich countries can lend money to hard working societies in order that benefit all.

Otherwise is pointless.

I will repeat what I have been talking. Croatia have natural resources, for example gas which we export in Italy. We have capital. We have money. We dont have product.

And what we have and IS most importantly in economics is labour. You can have infrastructure and natural resources but if you dont have educated people then nothing will change.

Product is important because to start paying your international debt you must sell something to others countries. That we dont have. (In fact we have it but not in ammount we need)

For example. Tie originate from Croatia. We have company which produce high quality ties and export them from Japan to America.

We Končar who is company for power generation, distribution and transmission of electrical energy, industry and electric traction. Their transformators are BEST in the world.

Germans, Swedes, Iranians, Russians, Indians all buy their product. We have Podravka...List goes on.

I must stressed out that war move behind our starting position. But what realy moved us behind is transition.

On transition I can talk for hours. Its history phenomenan studied by sociologists, economists, historians..

[Big Bad Voodoo]

When I mentioned "product" what worries me is fact that EU in particulary France and Germany start with protectionism. That is in contradiction to EU.

So now if we even create product which we can sell to some EU country there is possibility that those countries are under protectionism policy about specific product.

As I said niether EU is perfect, niether Economy per se is perfect.

Take just example on public view about investments in east Europe.

So if Austrian bank transfer money to their bank in Croatia it isnt investment. Yet all banks, Austria, newspaper will count that as investment in their papers.

Croatia is small country. If we dont exist world would not miss anything. (dont take it literally but in economic non luxury goods) That doesnt mean we cant contribute to EU.

Edited July 2, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Nobody gives the EU credit for ensuring that France and Germany play nice? Since the end of WW2 and particularly since the fall of Communism, we have witnessed a more peaceful Europe than we have ever seen before. Does anyone know of a period of 68 years before the 20th without a war in Europe involving either Britain, Russia, Germany, Spain, Italy or France?

If Europe isnt united, USA and Asia would eat us alive. Asia is industry, Europe museums, Africa resources...

What people think on EU as some recent project. EU have history from 18/19 century.

This "new" policy is European response for USA and Asia. If EU dont exist WW III would exist.

Edited July 2, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

If Croatia is as good as the residents say it is,why ar'nt the rest of Europe migrating to that "wonderfull" country.Don't brag too much you guys,you'll have all the Poles in England applying for entrance.

But people do migrate. And now once we in EU Bulgars and Romanians will come to work. And as usual Germans and Italians will come more often.

No need to use " for wonderfull. It is wonderfull.

Edited July 2, 2013 by the L

[FLOMBIE]

You should all go to Croatia for your holidays, it really is wonderful. I especially enjoyed my stay on the island Rab.