Croatia becomes 28th EU member

[Big Bad Voodoo]

stevewinn

now you can remove your British flag ...you are imigrant who shows his loyality to other country. In military books it is called false flag attacks. Sadly for you I have nose for such things.

Jees...I actually try to explain you some basics in economy but you cant handle basic math.

Not just you are ignorant and uneducated. You are trolling.

You are not British.

Edited July 2, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

You should all go to Croatia for your holidays, it really is wonderful. I especially enjoyed my stay on the island Rab.

Come any time. Germans were always our Tropa de elite tourists,

[Big Bad Voodoo]

And all that from a brit whose country waged war against 97% of the planets states?

But you would not remember all the killing, rape, torture thst Britain did and still does all over the world, wouldn'tya?

Dont bother Odas. Steve dont read us at all. He is here on agenda. Its info war.(when they cant win real war they will try with info one)

Just look at his posts. He is talking about rising population in Croatia and its well known fact that our population is in decline.

He cant even calculate. For him WW2 ended in 1983. In the year when he was born. Im quite sure we talk to some imigrant construction worker who is "wanna be Brittish."

I doubt that in UK education system is THAT low.

I guess he is ashamed of his own country.

Dont react on his provocations and dont compare Croatia to UK. There is no need. Thats what he wants. Because he cant compare it to his own homeland.

Hell ...there is no Brittish who would not make a toast... ..They are like us. They SEEK for reason to make a toast.

They are philanthropists. steve is misanthrope. And Im full of knife and wire hegemony. Ignore him as he ignores us.

Edited July 2, 2013 by the L

[skookum]

I have a feeling that once January 2014 passes and Germany, France and the UK get swamped by Romanians and Bulgarians holding out their hands the EU will wake up and put a stop to unrestricted migration.

Croatians shouldn't pack their bags just yet.

Congratulations on entry Croatia. Unfortunately the EU tick has run dry and even the French and Germans are getting fed up with unrestricted migration. Entry 5-10 years ago could have made a massive difference. Unfortunately all the failing economies have sucked up the money that could of helped make big changes.

Edited July 3, 2013 by skookum

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I have a feeling that once January 2014 passes and Germany, France and the UK get swamped by Romanians and Bulgarians holding out their hands the EU will wake up and put a stop to unrestricted migration.

Croatians shouldn't pack their bags just yet.

Congratulations on entry Croatia. Unfortunately the EU tick has run dry and even the French and Germans are getting fed up with unrestricted migration. Entry 5-10 years ago could have made a massive difference. Unfortunately all the failing economies have sucked up the money that could of helped make big changes.

Germany France, France Germany ... that's the only thing ppl can say these days apparantly. Like they are the only countries troubled with this immigration business. HELLO it's every damn country. Greece even has problems with it. Why do you think the extreme right party got so popular in times of crisis? Cuz they had "foreigners" to blame.

Belgium and surrounding countries, but especially Belgium since this is the number one festival country of europe, just got notice that gangs out of Romania are coming purely for theft on festivals, on a grand scale. And also to infiltrate homes and they don't care about using force. Highest amount of reports ever of theft on festivals this year, and all the gangs haven't even arrived yet.

Just to paint you a picture about how every country is fed up with this bs. And they are all looking into putting restrictions back on the borders.

For workers out of foreign countries, who go to other countries to deliver cheap work and then disappear again, they are finally trying to get paperwork in order so they have to pay taxes in the country they perform services. We are all hoping this goes pretty rapidly because it is a severe problem, and everybody knows it.

[skookum]

Germany France, France Germany ... that's the only thing ppl can say these days apparantly. Like they are the only countries troubled with this immigration business. HELLO it's every damn country. Greece even has problems with it. Why do you think the extreme right party got so popular in times of crisis? Cuz they had "foreigners" to blame.

Belgium and surrounding countries, but especially Belgium since this is the number one festival country of europe, just got notice that gangs out of Romania are coming purely for theft on festivals, on a grand scale. And also to infiltrate homes and they don't care about using force. Highest amount of reports ever of theft on festivals this year, and all the gangs haven't even arrived yet.

Just to paint you a picture about how every country is fed up with this bs. And they are all looking into putting restrictions back on the borders.

For workers out of foreign countries, who go to other countries to deliver cheap work and then disappear again, they are finally trying to get paperwork in order so they have to pay taxes in the country they perform services. We are all hoping this goes pretty rapidly because it is a severe problem, and everybody knows it.

I didn't mean other countries don't have a problem, I know Greece does and I am sure many others. Problem is unless France and Germany get fed with something the rest of the nations are just ignored.

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I didn't mean other countries don't have a problem, I know Greece does and I am sure many others. Problem is unless France and Germany get fed with something the rest of the nations are just ignored.

That's BS, big time.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I didn't mean other countries don't have a problem, I know Greece does and I am sure many others. Problem is unless France and Germany get fed with something the rest of the nations are just ignored.

Read my post about debt in west and east europe.

Netherlands, UK, Germany etc owe way over whole Eastern europe.

Because your country is in bad shape now Estonians, Poles, Slovaks and Croats must be the reason.

No offence but Im surprised what I hear from you people from UK.

One of my friend was from London. He said to me once: "More multuculturalist we get we get more racist." I thought that paradox cant be true.

Now I start to wonder...is that because you are that way or because you dont understand basic economy...

I hope last one. because why would we put something to Brittish table? Is this MUST thing? Why dont Brittish put something on our table?

It think its Brittish Emprie legcay. You need to awake. Brittish dont worth more then Croats. Period.

All else is racial thinking.

Edited July 3, 2013 by the L

[Subsonicjourno]

Croatia should never have joined. The Euro is fundamentally flawed and it will fail. Pro Euro people can argue until their blue in the face about how great the EU is but I work in the finance sector and see everyday how much damage is being done to once proud and wealthy country's. Its the biggest crime of modern times.

[Render]

Croatia should never have joined. The Euro is fundamentally flawed and it will fail. Pro Euro people can argue until their blue in the face about how great the EU is but I work in the finance sector and see everyday how much damage is being done to once proud and wealthy country's. Its the biggest crime of modern times.

They should fire your ignorant ass, pronto.

[stevewinn]

Dont bother Odas. Steve dont read us at all. He is here on agenda. Its info war.(when they cant win real war they will try with info one)

Just look at his posts. He is talking about rising population in Croatia and its well known fact that our population is in decline.

He cant even calculate. For him WW2 ended in 1983. In the year when he was born. Im quite sure we talk to some imigrant construction worker who is "wanna be Brittish."

I doubt that in UK education system is THAT low.

I guess he is ashamed of his own country.

Dont react on his provocations and dont compare Croatia to UK. There is no need. Thats what he wants. Because he cant compare it to his own homeland.

Hell ...there is no Brittish who would not make a toast... ..They are like us. They SEEK for reason to make a toast.

They are philanthropists. steve is misanthrope. And Im full of knife and wire hegemony. Ignore him as he ignores us.

if you go back and read my post #42. you'll see i said Croatia is suffering from a plummeting population, then somehow you go on to say i think world war 2 ended in 1983, - how you came to that conclusion is beyond me.

i a few home truths, population plummeting, including a aging population, infant mortality rising, economic situation - jobless figures 21% unemployment rate, economy in recession for five years. high levels of corruption, systemic in fact. - less than 50%

The EU members are going to be lumbered with all these problems. already since 2008 nearly €90 million euros has been thrown at Croatia in the form of pre accession aid and money from other EU institutions - AKA bribery money.

well, we've reached that part of the night where the party is all but over, people are looking to leave, but no-one is making a move, no one wants to be the first to go, the front door bell as just rung and Angela Merkel as just stood up to open the door. and in walks Croatia, struggling with huge bags of economic and social misery and all the woes that go with it, - the time as come for the UK to make a move and say thank you and goodnight. leaving those behind to carry the bags. there is nothing in it for us. TAXI.

[Helen of Annoy]

Yes, taxi for steve!

I’ll pay for that fare. And tip the driver.

I would drive you myself, but you probably wouldn’t want to sit in German car.

On more serious note, Croatian population is ageing, but infant mortality is not rising. I resent that misinformation. Our health care is not luxurious, but it is serious and accessible to virtually every citizen, and now basic care is accessible to the citizens of EU countries too. (Not that we ever denied help to anyone, you don't pay for rescuing in Croatia, for example, and they patch you up first, ask if you can pay later.) There are no superbugs in our hospitals yet, by the way. To illustrate the situation: it’s also quite popular among northern Italians to spend their holidays in Croatia and fix their teeth over here, because it’s cheaper while equally hygienic and professional.

Croatia is small and relatively poor, but we are not cavemen.

I’d also like to repeat Croats are not interested in emigrating in the first place, most of us like living right here, in our cosy little land. What we hope for is exactly the opposite of emigration: we hope for re-Europeanization of our country through opening our borders for EU investments, people, knowledge, traditions, traffic, culture... everything.

Again, it’s not about money, we don’t want anyone to feed us, but we do want chances to earn more than we do at the moment, both through investments and access to EU market (access with our products, not cheap emigrating labour), we do want our kids to have less complicated access to education in EU countries, we do want European tourists to simply drop by with no passports. Some of these people were already at home in Croatia, it was only logical to make them officially at home.

And a little fun fact: the oldest Croat died yesterday, aged 106. He lived in five states in total, without moving

Edited July 3, 2013 by Helen of Annoy

[odas]

Again, I understand steves concerns given the history of eastern migration, working for low wages, undermining the possibilty of domesting workforce for desent employment, crime...

He does have a valid concern. Just as we like to improve our quality of life he wants his to be restored the way it used to be.

But the rant over Croatia is not justified. I know Croations. Lived with them, had and still have friends and I work along them.

The EU id in a crisis. Yes. But Croatia us not a contributor to this crisis. If at all it can help to leverage the situation. I am sure there will be a mutual benefit. The EU is still in its formation.

[stevewinn]

Again, I understand steves concerns given the history of eastern migration, working for low wages, undermining the possibilty of domesting workforce for desent employment, crime...

He does have a valid concern. Just as we like to improve our quality of life he wants his to be restored the way it used to be.

But the rant over Croatia is not justified. I know Croations. Lived with them, had and still have friends and I work along them.

The EU id in a crisis. Yes. But Croatia us not a contributor to this crisis. If at all it can help to leverage the situation. I am sure there will be a mutual benefit. The EU is still in its formation.

what do you mean by my rant over Croatia not being justified. its not a rant, the EU is in turmoil, its costing billions of euros, and causing all sorts of social problems. and what does the EU do in these times of crisis? do they suspend membership until the problems have been sorted, NO, they add more fuel to the fire. Croatia is now another country the EU will have to finance. so i highlight the situation in Croatia today. the economic problems, the falling population, your aging population which will store problems in itself when it comes to pensions. - Croatia is not joining the EU in the best of circumstances. so who will it be left to, it'll be left to those in the EU who are carrying the load to sort out another country. its no wonder contributions to the EU are going up and up and up.

so like i said, Croatia will have its hand out waiting for the money, and its now left to the net contributers to look after you. - when we look at the net contributers, Germany UK, Netherlands France. Italy Sweden, Denmark. we have about ten net contributers giving more than they receive. then we have 18 countries who are net beneficiaries. we've justed added Croatia to this group of net beneficiaries. and in the coming years when we add more countries that list will grow to at least 23. its pure madness.

Edited July 3, 2013 by stevewinn

[Helen of Annoy]

Again, I understand steves concerns given the history of eastern migration, working for low wages, undermining the possibilty of domesting workforce for desent employment, crime...

He does have a valid concern. Just as we like to improve our quality of life he wants his to be restored the way it used to be.

But the rant over Croatia is not justified. I know Croations. Lived with them, had and still have friends and I work along them.

The EU id in a crisis. Yes. But Croatia us not a contributor to this crisis. If at all it can help to leverage the situation. I am sure there will be a mutual benefit. The EU is still in its formation.

Exactly, EU is still in formation. It will take time and effort to shape it to last and function properly. There will be ups and downs.

Croatia has joined in remarkably down moment, but that’s just our karma. Somehow, it wouldn’t be right and it would make me suspicious if it was seemingly good time to join

I’m sorry for border with Bosnia and Herzegovina won’t be as porous as it was and I’m sorry for it looks like it will take a while before B&H joins EU too.

On the brighter side, the formal speeches at Croatian official joining celebration were a lot about giving an example to the neighbours. Truth be told, some of the neighbours (yes, them) need no example, but an act of god in order to change their old hegemonic habits and expectations, but miracles sometimes do happen. Croatia has promised and will deliver the promised help, as soon as that help is truly wanted and needed.

And once the neighbours are in too, I’ll literally roll on the floor laughing, because that’s when karma will be set in full motion.

Edit: Is that some English custom, to repeatedly announce you are leaving and then stay for a while longer? I should let hoteliers know.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Helen of Annoy

[skookum]

I suppose for Croatia it must be like getting on the Titanic minutes after the iceberg strike.

You can see, smell and feel the luxury. The problem is very shortly it will be at the bottom of the ocean. Why you are looking round and admiring it all the life boats have been filled by the people who have been on board the whole voyage, leaving behind those who believe a ship can be unsinkable or the ones they convinced.

Ignorance is bliss for awhile.

Edited July 3, 2013 by skookum

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Helen

I wonder why we have 400 000 Brittish tourists per year? Why is Zrće full of Britts? Dubrovnik, Split...

I wonder how many Croats visit UK per year?

As Minister William Hauge said UK needs Croatia brain.

Health tourism is spread all over the country. And in whole year. We becoming like Turkey who earns millions on it. And its just one tiny part of our tourism.

Also new investments will be put in production, because we have infrastructure.

Please dont bother with Steve if he knew anythingy about Economy he would know that to economy it isnt problem when people is in decline or aging. (all can happen its pension crysis) Problem is with nations who have population growth. Its simply one of the old theories done by one of the fathers of economy Malthus.Its economy basics.

Population growth is exponential but growth of food supply is arithmetical. Since our modern society become more complex on price of food effect many things. Such as biodiesel, oil, speculation and climate. By all economic means we, Croats, are not treat to world or EU economy. Thats why I stressed out that if we dont exist world would not miss anything in economic terms. But we are alive and have rich history. We have rich culture. Wonderfull language and customs. We have traditions. We have natural resources. We have capital. We have labour. Knowledge. We are not poor by all means. We are in crysis. Graphs of Croatia crysis is L shape. In most developed countries its V shape because they have smart systems to fight against crysis. We didnt developed our own. We didnt have time for such thing. We are young. But promising.

In some developed countries its U shape. And in some is W shape.

If you read my post about CEE and investments and debt you would notice that all numbers show that Eastern Europe isnt in debt as West Europe. But I dont want to divide it.

We are one. EU. If some country bother with us they could leave the train. We feel comfortable in EU family.

Some members here either are affraid of loosing workplace as construction worker, either dont have clue about economy, either isnt Brittish at all.

Edited July 3, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I suppose for Croatia it must be like getting on the Titanic minutes after the iceberg strike.

Atleast we are still on board.

Edited July 3, 2013 by the L

[ciriuslea]

I seriously doubt Croatia joined the EU in order to flood Britian and the rest of Europe with unskilled cheap labour, but the restrictions and levies placed on countries outside to trade within IMO are punitive, especially other nations in and on the borders of Europe, I think before we (the UK) start waving the finger we have to look at our place in Europe, I would like to see a stricter border policy, but whatever some 'Brits' like to moan about..I'm sure there are many from the other nations we currently have a presence...like Spain for example do the same about us.

I actually welcome people to Britain just don't once your here think we want to be like you and believe what you do...enough said

[Helen of Annoy]

I suppose for Croatia it must be like getting on the Titanic minutes after the iceberg strike.

You can see, smell and feel the luxury. The problem is very shortly it will be at the bottom of the ocean. Why you are looking round and admiring it all the life boats have been filled by the people who have been on board the whole voyage, leaving behind those who believe a ship can be unsinkable or the ones they convinced.

Ignorance is bliss for awhile.

So is it that you didn’t read any of L’s or my posts or you think that we are both lying?

We know there are no room in life boats for us, there never was. It’s the difference in our mindsets, you were raised to expect a seat reserved for you, we were raised to swim. You were raised to complain, we were raised to endure. Consequentially, I’ll die poor and proud of many things that have no price.

After all, there were Croats in the crew aboard Carpathia, the ship that fished out many survivors of Titanic disaster. Josip Car, one of them, kept one of life vests and it’s the only life vest from Titanic in Europe. It is kept today in Naval History section of the Museum of Primorje in Rijeka.

Edit: ****, "there is no room" not "there are no room"... sorry. I was just reading what the hell I said up here and noticed that.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Helen of Annoy

[Helen of Annoy]

I seriously doubt Croatia joined the EU in order to flood Britian and the rest of Europe with unskilled cheap labour, but the restrictions and levies placed on countries outside to trade within IMO are punitive, especially other nations in and on the borders of Europe, I think before we (the UK) start waving the finger we have to look at our place in Europe, I would like to see a stricter border policy, but whatever some 'Brits' like to moan about..I'm sure there are many from the other nations we currently have a presence...like Spain for example do the same about us.

I actually welcome people to Britain just don't once your here think we want to be like you and believe what you do...enough said

Yes, well, if I say that’s exactly what Croats think of immigrants steve will start screaming bloody racist murder.

And if I say “ask Germans what kind of immigrants are Croats” he’ll start screaming bloody SS murder.

See, double standards. I don’t like that. Apply the same set of rules to both you and me and we’ll be fine. My culture does not seek to spread itself. It’s bound to this particular tiny patch of Europe. We are Croats at home, but Romans in Rome.

I understand you have your frustrations but you are venting them out on wrong nation here.

I’ll repeat: 4 million and 300 thousand people live in Croatia. We won’t invade you. No offence, it’s not only that we are too small to invade but we also don’t like your climate.

[skookum]

So is it that you didn’t read any of L’s or my posts or you think that we are both lying?

We know there are no room in life boats for us, there never was. It’s the difference in our mindsets, you were raised to expect a seat reserved for you, we were raised to swim. You were raised to complain, we were raised to endure. Consequentially, I’ll die poor and proud of many things that have no price.

After all, there were Croats in the crew aboard Carpathia, the ship that fished out many survivors of Titanic disaster. Josip Car, one of them, kept one of life vests and it’s the only life vest from Titanic in Europe. It is kept today in Naval History section of the Museum of Primorje in Rijeka.

Edit: ****, "there is no room" not "there are no room"... sorry. I was just reading what the hell I said up here and noticed that.

Thing is I am all happy for Croatia and its people if this is what you want.

Like I said earlier joining now is not going to give you the benefits of the countries who joined earlier on. Unfortunately they were the ones that cooked the books to get in, wasted their subsidies and messed it up for new members by bleeding the pot dry.

I think even the most dihard EU supporter would have to admit we are not exactly at the highest point in the EU's short history.

Edited July 3, 2013 by skookum

[Render]

It's funny how this thread is the exact representation of Europe vs the UK at the moment. Every European poster here calls for a stronger united Europe, and then you have the Brits acting all superior and getting their panties all up in a bunch.

So full of it.

Exactly like that pain in the ass Cameron...couple of days ago there was a meeting about how Europe is gonna tackle youth unemployment. Every one who gave a pre interview, of any country said similar things along the lines "this is serious issue, we are gonna handle this from different facets, the youth will be stimulated for a brighter future"

And then you had conceited lil Cameron coming out of the cab saying "Europe should be like the UK, we know how to educate the youth yadayadayada"

Educating the youngsters into serious debt...and everyone should just follow that cuz Cameron can't come up with anything constructive. He can only portray a picture of "us vs them". So lame, so passé. Just like all the Brits here can't come up with anything constructive. Follow the leader leader , eeh?

And it's also funny, btw, how Brits keep saying "Europe shouldn't try to change us, we are who we are". But yet it's always the Brits who keep insisting the Europe should be like the UK. Conceited conceited.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Render

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I’ll repeat: 4 million and 300 thousand people live in Croatia. We won’t invade you. No offence, it’s not only that we are too small to invade but we also don’t like your climate.

I say said they are invading us.

400 000 Brits per year.

We become like China. "You... come to us. We are boss here" j/k

[Big Bad Voodoo]

It's funny how this thread is the exact representation of Europe vs the UK at the moment. Every European poster here calls for a stronger united Europe, and then you have the Brits acting all superior and getting their panties all up in a bunch.

So full of it.

Exactly like that pain in the ass Cameron...couple of days ago there was a meeting about how Europe is gonna tackle youth unemployment. Every one who gave a pre interview, of any country said similar things along the lines "this is serious issue, we are gonna handle this from different facets, the youth will be stimulated for a brighter future"

And then you had conceited lil Cameron coming out of the cab saying "Europe should be like the UK, we know how to educate the youth yadayadayada"

Educating the youngsters into serious debt...and everyone should just follow that cuz Cameron can't come up with anything constructive. He can only portray a picture of "us vs them". So lame, so passé. Just like all the Brits here can't come up with anything constructive. Follow the leader leader , eeh?

And it's also funny, btw, how Brits keep saying "Europe shouldn't try to change us, we are who we are". But yet it's always the Brits who keep insisting the Europe should be like the UK. Conceited conceited.

Its legacy of British empire. They abolish slavery (btw Croats did it first) but doesnt mean stop of racial thinking. Its long term process.

Obvously some Brits here didnt gone trough that process.