Atheists meet God...

[Timothy]

Well from the perspective of the religious, a prayer is a prayer ... a call to God is a call to God ... sudden or not ... subconscious or not ...

you see where I'm coming from ?

~

Real atheists don't call to god

[SHaYap]

Real atheists don't call to god

Yes they do ... only when they cuss it seems ... or so I've been told and made to believe ... and they don't mean it really ... it seems ...

A figure of speech so to speak ...

~

Edited July 2, 2013 by third_eye

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

If you really think that humans don't feel lust, Anger, Greed and gluttony than you are fooling yourself. Without them...you aren't human. It's what make's us human, our emotions. And if you can sit there and tell me you've never felt Lust, Anger, Pride, Greed or any of those. Then I will sit here and call you a dead set liar.

Hi krypter3,

There is such a thing as self-discipline; we have all the time in the world to work at it. The good thing about having a religion is the fact that one already has a map to follow to practice self-discipline. Besides, Jesus' forgiveness is "seventy times seven!" There is more to love and life than casual sex. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Changes will happen when you get reborn in the spirit. It has that otherworldly quality. Therefore, is it really lust for multiple partners, or just a mindless pattern (addiction)? The heat of passion is part of love, don't get me wrong, and that won't change when you become a "born again" Christian. Being "born again" is a journey to learn about yourself, along with the Holy Spirit and Bible and your fellow Christians and kindhearted friends to guide you. We, human beings, are all in this together.

Money has nothing to do with "real" joy in your heart. Anger falls in the realm of self-discipline. It takes strength and knowledge to be humble. You really have to know yourself and be able to empathize with people, or put yourself in another's place. "...think of yourself with sober judgment," especially since we are constantly bombarded by the media.

Last, bowing to God is not done out of duty, it's an act of love. God knows what's in our hearts, after all.

Peace.

Edited July 2, 2013 by braveone2u

[Mr Walker]

If you really think that humans don't feel lust, Anger, Greed and gluttony than you are fooling yourself. Without them...you aren't human. It's what make's us human, our emotions. And if you can sit there and tell me you've never felt Lust, Anger, Pride, Greed or any of those. Then I will sit here and call you a dead set liar.

Rubbish We LEARN those responses from birth.

They are mental constructs.

Thus they can be unlearned.

I was lucky to have parents who never allowed me to develop constructs of greed or envy, and who did their best to teach me not to feel fear or anger.

The first construct I unlearned was fear and that was while i was an atheist secular humanist aged in my early teens. Fear is a useless and destructive emotion. Use intelligence, caution, and forward planning instead. I also unlearned to feel anger while an atheist. Anger is also a pointless and destructive emotion. There is no productive point to it Chanel your energy to something more constructive.

A human being can learn not to hate or feel envy or lust or anger. So, first step. Recognise and control those responses if you have learned them.

Second step, eliminate or modify your actual emotions.

Tthird step dont feel negative emotions at all You can train yourslef to do this. And along with that work on developing productive and postive, "emotional" responses'

I am human, and a not a liar, and so your words do not stir any anger in me. Where is your evidence for callling me names and what point does it serve.?

Anyone with knowledge will and discipine can do this. Everyone does it to an extent or they would not survive childhood. We learn we cannot always gratify our learned emotional responses. We cant get angry when we want to because it is no longer productive to yell or cry to get what we want, or succumb to fear every time we face it. I am just saying, anyone can take this process of learning and discipline a lot further. This is not inhuman, it is how modern humans need to be to survive, live long, and prosper.

[Jor-el]

So you know the mind of your God? How? Did he tell you that?

Well let me put it this way, the character of the little clip playing God has his lines preplanned for him... the end result is then predictable and favours the designer of the clip... I would think that obvious from the start.... Now, God will have his answers to the same questions but I'm betting that they won't be the same as those given in the video... and when given there will be no argument to the truth, because the truth will then be self evident.

[Jor-el]

I just realised this guy twisted the Green Lantern oath to fit religion. Blasphemy.

And I made it rhyme...

[Grandpa Greenman]

Truth changes and is not self evident. People thought mice came from straw and cloth. It was true until someone check it out and found mice come from mice. You can't say the movie isn't true because there is no way to ask God what he is going to say.For all we know he'll walk up and say it was all a joke. The world is full of truths that are not true. Snope.com, have fun.

[Jor-el]

Truth changes and is not self evident. People thought mice came from straw and cloth. It was true until someone check it out and found mice come from mice. You can't say the movie isn't true because there is no way to ask God what he is going to say.For all we know he'll walk up and say it was all a joke. The world is full of truths that are not true. Snope.com, have fun.

Yeah, but God if anyone knows truth... so I would listen if he presented it.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Jor-el

[White Crane Feather]

I think that's pretty clear: God loves violence. The early chapters of the Torah make it clear to me that God is highly entertained by the events which we humans would now find criminal. There was murder and incest and betrayal. God hardly had to stir the pot to keep things going. That led to the war and genocide that God demanded from the Israelites. Their violence and xenophobia were exactly what God wanted.

My question would be "Weren't there any smarter xenophobic and violent people you could have chosen?" They have to be the dumbest and least faithful group of people in any religion. God repeatedly performed incredible miracles right before their eyes but they went back to whining and worshiping idols five minutes later.

Haha I love it. Why not siberians? Why not the Cherokee? I think Christianity owes its success to the success of the Roman Empire and the particular aggressive marketing skills of Christians.

[_Only]

A common religious theory is that God wants you to willingly abandon all questions and doubts about Him that your logical mind will create. If you "really" believed in God then you wouldn't ask for unimportant things like "evidence".

While your explanation is exaggerated for rhetorical value, this is a partly true concept, that can either be understood or not. The believer says belief is a great thing that should be learned and understood. The atheist says 'what's the point?'.

I've found it's different ways of thinking that fuel that contrast of acceptance of the idea of belief. I tend to lean towards the former viewpoint (obviously to those who read more of my posts) because the latter is such a limited and close minded stance.

I 'believe' that the idea of belief is a very important one to our personal growth as human beings, and I feel that finding it a useless concept in contrast to waiting for proof of everything you choose to stand by in your life is self limiting. I'm aware that the people with opposite views of mine, and their reasons for their stance.

It's really 2 sides of the coin of perception of life, in my opinion. Lessons can probably be learned from both sides. Or we can continue to think the other side are gorillas. I can't help but do it myself.

[_Only]

I understand this, but the assumption that every atheist becomes a zealot at the first sign of mortal trouble is just plain wrong.

Oh, come on. He never said that. Rhetorical words like 'most' beg to be taken with the grain of salt that they are in disagreement.

[_Only]

If you really think that humans don't feel lust, Anger, Greed and gluttony than you are fooling yourself. Without them...you aren't human. It's what make's us human, our emotions. And if you can sit there and tell me you've never felt Lust, Anger, Pride, Greed or any of those. Then I will sit here and call you a dead set liar.

*I sit at the white throne as God, seeing your reply*

God: I know you feel all of those things. You are a personal projection of mine, created by me, for learning. Every aspect of you was created beforehand, but you were given free will to use it as you saw fit. You see, I can't experience these things here in the void. I need you to teach me these things, my Son/Daughter. I am learning so much from my countless projections. Together, we will learn eternally. Now let's go through what you taught me from your personal life experiences...

*life flashes before eyes, filled with all personally associated emotions with all involved*

...now, time to go back. I have much more to learn, and you will help me again. I feel your next projection will be an exciting one for us both. Good luck, my Son/Daughter! I'll be with you every step of the way...

*bright light of hospital room*

While this scene was a metaphoric one, this is what I sometimes imagine the god type to be. Not some omnipotent, perfect white bearded Zeus with muscles and eyes of flame. But a source. A source that is learning.

I imagine one of the more snide atheists, stabbing at 'god', saying "well, surely a loooving god that would send me to Hell of fire and.."

*the source suddenly sends the person to a boiling pit of fire, with black toothed creatures smiling and hissing in his face*

*the person, in utter fear, pain, and agony is instantly shot back to his place in front of 'god'*

There. Happy? Now. Can we get on with what we learned during your life? We have much more to do, and only eternity to accomplish it.

*the humbled person wipes their chin and quiets*

Humorous dramatization aside, this helps paint a picture at theoretically true intent of a creator, clashing with the selfish, limited viewpoint challenge of its creation.

Edited July 3, 2013 by _Only

[GoldenWolf]

Humorous dramatization aside, this helps paint a picture at theoretically true intent of a creator, clashing with the selfish, limited viewpoint challenge of its creation.

And throwing someone into the lake of fire to be tormented in agonizing pain for all eternity because said person didn't worship him isn't selfish?

[Arpee]

I know religion and science often conflict, but I've never heard of a religion that doesn't believe that matter exists!

Matter is a condensed form of energy.

A good metaphor would be comparing ice to steam. The steam would be the energy that makes up the reality. The water would be the field of particles making up the reality and the ice would be the physical forms.

Would you forgive and love someone who not only condones you burning in hell for all eternity, but wishes it for it (I.M.O. the worst kind of hate)? Someone like that is impossible to forgive and love.

Why would anyone accept an attitude like that? It shouldn't be accepted, it is unacceptable.

I do not like when the fundamentalists say such things to me, but I do forgive them since this was their upbringing and it wasn't in their upbringing to learn and conquer ignorance with learning. I also accept that they have the right to their emotions and beliefs, and I have the right to not like it. I'll debate with such people because that is what's fun for me and hopefully I'll help people to see from another point of view at least by a little bit. If I do get angry then I'll relax, let the anger go, and speak in a calm manner with them to help them see my point of view - not to because I think they 'deserve' to be talked nice to or forgiven or anything like that, but because if I am angry I will be the one who's suffering and that anger will only cause them to be more defensive about their beliefs.

On the other hand, I know that such religious minds had destructive influences in the world, and thankfully each generation is being brought up to be more open-minded.

Over time things will change and by discussing such ideas while being calm and compassionate, that will help them to see from another point of view.

I'll be hard to help a person see from another point of view if they are talked to in a rude manner.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Arpee

[ambelamba]

And throwing someone into the lake of fire to be tormented in agonizing pain for all eternity because said person didn't worship him isn't selfish?

According to their logic, the Creator can do whatever he wants to do with his creations.

That being sad, it's very likely that it will be Christians who will start oppressing artificial intelligence if it becomes reality, using the same logic. Sometimes I wonder if it would be Christians who would usher the age of robot rebellion!

[_Only]

And throwing someone into the lake of fire to be tormented in agonizing pain for all eternity because said person didn't worship him isn't selfish?

You completely missed the point of that dramatization. The creator was in the middle of explaining how the person was a projection of himself, sent out to learn. There was no holy God judging the person negatively or positively. No lake of fire intended to throw the person in; no worship necessary. They had it all wrong.

You have to stop clinging to one religion's explanation of god.

Edited July 3, 2013 by _Only

[GoldenWolf]

You completely missed the point of that dramatization. The creator was in the middle of explaining how the person was a projection of himself, sent out to learn. There was no holy God judging the person negatively or positively. No lake of fire intended to throw the person in; no worship necessary. They had it all wrong.

You have to stop clinging to one religion's explanation of god.

Your post isn't exactly easy to understand, but I was replying mainly to:

"this helps paint a picture at theoretically true intent of a creator, clashing with the selfish, limited viewpoint challenge of its creation."

And this topic is about the christian god.

Edited July 3, 2013 by HavocWing

[_Only]

"this helps paint a picture at theoretically true intent of a creator, clashing with the selfish, limited viewpoint challenge of its creation."

I've already said this, but here it is again, hopefully clearer for you: the intent of this theoretical god is to send out projections of himself to learn things he can't in his little home. That's his true intent. He is slightly annoyed when his projection comes back to him, spouting misconceptions that he is some God who sends people to Hell and lakes of fire. The god complies to the person's misconstrued idea, sending the person to their idea of Hell, only reason being to shut the person up. Which it undoubtedly does. Now the god can get on with with his plan and what he is really all about.

The point was that the person was getting all high and mighty trying to explain the god to itself, when he really had no idea.

If you think the above parable isn't pertinent to a topic about a god, because you feel this topic can only be about Christianity (which the OP never states), you are the real life portrayal of the person in my story. I think you didn't understand because you didn't want to. But don't limit the topic.

[GoldenWolf]

I've already said this, but here it is again, hopefully clearer for you: the intent of this theoretical god is to send out projections of himself to learn things he can't in his little home. That's his true intent. He is slightly annoyed when his projection comes back to him, spouting misconceptions that he is some God who sends people to Hell and lakes of fire. The god complies to the person's misconstrued idea, sending the person to their idea of Hell, only reason being to shut the person up. Which it undoubtedly does. Now the god can get on with with his plan and what he is really all about.

The point was that the person was getting all high and mighty trying to explain the god to itself, when he really had no idea.

If you think the above parable isn't pertinent to a topic about a god, because you feel this topic can only be about Christianity (which the OP never states), you are the real life portrayal of the person in my story. I think you didn't understand because you didn't want to. But don't limit the topic.

Only the christian god or allah really go with this topic, because they are the only ones who really go on about the afterlife and judgment. It is implied.

Edited July 3, 2013 by HavocWing

[_Only]

Only the christian god or allah really go with this topic, because they are the only ones who really go on about the afterlife and judgment. It is implied.

Is it? I think a god experiencing a lifetime of you denying his existence meeting you face to face, and giving a "what do you have to say about the whole atheism thing" is very pertinent. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jor-El.

[The Silver Thong]

Is it? I think a god experiencing a lifetime of you denying his existence meeting you face to face, and giving a "what do you have to say about the whole atheism thing" is very pertinent. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jor-El.

Why does god create atheists or none believers in a said god.

Edited July 3, 2013 by The Silver Thong

[ciriuslea]

Of course he does, but this way it is more dramatic...

As if 'he' hasn't created enough,

[_Only]

Why does god create atheists or none believers in a said god.

To see how they treat each other, and learn from the resulting back and forth? To learn the individual feelings and thoughts of each? To watch them fight out of enjoyment? Because his mom said he had to?

I don't know. I've never met the guy.

[GoldenWolf]

Is it? I think a god experiencing a lifetime of you denying his existence meeting you face to face, and giving a "what do you have to say about the whole atheism thing" is very pertinent. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jor-El.

If a person lives their life as a good person, what difference does it make he isn't worshiped? Is that the only thing "god" cares about? Being worshiped?

Is god the most narcissistic being/person to have ever existed?

Edited July 3, 2013 by HavocWing

[The Silver Thong]

To see how they treat each other, and learn from the resulting back and forth? To learn the individual feelings and thoughts of each? To watch them fight out of enjoyment? Because his mom said he had to?

I don't know. I've never met the guy.

So really the same reason it creates believers. Thought so.