Serial killers

[shadowghost]

I don't think anyone can be emotionless, Unable to handle their emotions, yes. When I get very het up or annoyed by something, I throw a plate at the wall or have a good cry. I think serial killers can't handle their emotions well enough to use coping strategies like that and instead go on to kill/hurt people. We've probably all felt like hurting someone at some time, ever woke up and thought "I could just punch somebody/anybody today"? I have but would never act on it. It seems normal to them and I suppose the more they do it, the more normal it becomes, A way to cope and as such don't see the wrong in it. I'm probably wrong though.

In a lot of cases I believe people are never thought an alternatives to emotions weather it be accepting them or ignoring them. In which case they come up with their own (often socially unacceptable) ways of dealing with them.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Also very few serial killer are "stupid" Most range in the bright normal range on the scale.

Hmm define bright because none of the serial killers iv ever read about, other than the uni-bomber ranked on the bright to genuis scale.

Edited November 20, 2013 by ReaperS_ParadoX

[keninsc]

Childhood abuse, neglect and abandonment creates 95% of criminals from the shop lifter all the way to the serial killer. The more severe the problems were the worser the criminal they end up as. The psychos have usually been sexually abused and had the living daylights beaten out of them on a frequent basis.

Not all victims turn criminal. Their genetic makeup seems to determine how they cope with the abuse, neglect and abandonment. Many go on to live normal lives.

Why are some people gay? Why are some pediophiles? Why are some into pain as a means of sexual pleasure?

These are questions people asked and tried to understand since the dawn of time. The human mind is extremely complex. Is it genetic? Environmental? Did your mother slip and fall while she was pregnant?

Why people become serial murderers or anything else may all be linked to the same root cause, but for now we just don't know.

[Controller Junkie]

isnt capn crunch the oldest serial killer. OOOPS, Wrong cereal. Lol

[ambelamba]

Funny thing is that there's no such thing as vigilante murderers in real world.

[keninsc]

Depends on how you define vigilante. There have been many vigilante murders over the years from lynch mobs to individuals who seek revenge for some wrong committed against them or a loved one.

[Chooky88]

Or leave their victims dying while they go in and eat dinner with the wife and kids. (1950's? serial killer can't remember his name)

Jerry Brudos

For me, in instances like this, something is not wired like the rest of us.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Chooky88

[Chooky88]

Jerry Brudos, necrophile with a foot fetish. His mother caught him as a child wearing found women's high heels. She beat him and Mn are him burn them. They became forbidden fruit. Many serial killers have a strict or messed up upbringing by terrible mothers. Can't think of a single one who didn't . my challenge, Somebody name one!

[Q-C]

Jerry Brudos, necrophile with a foot fetish. His mother caught him as a child wearing found women's high heels. She beat him and Mn are him burn them. They became forbidden fruit. Many serial killers have a strict or messed up upbringing by terrible mothers. Can't think of a single one who didn't . my challenge, Somebody name one!

There are many many more people who had messed up mothers/upbringing who do no become (serial) killers.

Some serial killers do have siblings raised in the same environment. So are those who do kill cases where something other than environment also comes in?

[Mabon]

To ponder further the point you raised Quite Contrary, if we think about the home life of a serial killer who had other siblings who didn't kill we would have to know how that individual felt about the abuse they received. Did they feel they were singled out for abuse? Were they singled out for abuse?

Did they internalize the abuse until it found other outlets (bullying, animal torture, etc) until it escalated to people?

Was one parent abusive and the other parent dominated and was this a model for their idea of how to control a relationship? The same scenario but the abused parent emotionally manipulated the individual, so that both parents did a head-trip on the individual?

To answer the OP's question serial killers have a common motivator, it's about control. In my opinion they are all angry about events in their lives they couldn't control. Dahmer,=his sexuality. Kemper=his abusive mother. Bundy=was born illegitimate in 1946 and had a physically mentally abusive grandfather. Aileen Wuornos= was raped and abused as a child.

I personally don't think there is a gene that creates a serial killer but lack of nurture and a sound home-life is the key to creating them. That's why I think the parents know their child is capable of the crimes they commit before they commit them but most want to deny it because it exposes the abusive home-life they come from. So I don't think it's a lack of feeling, rather it's an excess of feeling that they haven't had a healthy way or know of a healthy way of dealing with all the rage they felt. Does it excuse their crimes? No! But it does show the effect of childhood abuse.

I watched an interview of Larry King with Dahmer's father and step-mother and while they seem all nice and the epitome of what good Christian's should be, you could see the denial in action in the interview. His father stated that while in jail Jeff asked for creationist literature and became a born again Christian and that he knew, Jeff was sincere because he was never going to be released and so it wasn't a jail house conversion. His father seemed so proud that his son had become 'born again', was quick to point out that Jeffery had asked for the literature and had a true conversion. That JD admitted the desire for control motivated him and that he had been an atheist and felt lower than slime (or something to that effect) but he didn't know why he killed. (Really? you don't know why your son killed?) There was a weirdness in the interview of how the parents switched gears from sad and contrite about JD's actions to upbeat, when Larry asked if there was going to be a movie made about Jeffery.

Mabon.

[Chooky88]

There are many many more people who had messed up mothers/upbringing who do no become (serial) killers.

Some serial killers do have siblings raised in the same environment. So are those who do kill cases where something other than environment also comes in?

My mother was pretty messed up, I like to think I turned out ok. Never hurt anyone that wasn't self defence. maybe they also had weak character? Perhaps a deadly mix of nature and nurture?

[keninsc]

There are a lot of people who've had unfortunate up bringings and didn't become serial murderers. And some of the reasons given for activating the trigger mechanism are a look title silly. Ted Bundy was upset because he was borne out of wedlock. Seems silly, but that was the only thing anyone could ever find.

[Mabon]

It's true that a lot of people who've had abusive childhood's don't become serial killer, other become rapist, spouse or child abusers some don't. Some people who've had abusive childhoods realize the hurt they went through and don't want to pass that pain on.

With Ted Bundy if you look at his personality I think you have a classic narcissist. A narcissist isn't really in love with themselves even though it's all about them, their needs, what they want and the lengths they are willing to go to for control. Ted excelled and could control every aspect but one, his birth, being born out of wedlock now isn't as big a deal (for the most part) as it once was. In the sixties it could still bar you from certain circles and for Ted who wanted/needed/demanded total acceptance this would be the aspect he couldn't change or control.

Mabon.

[SHaYap]

To ponder further the point you raised Quite Contrary, if we think about the home life of a serial killer who had other siblings who didn't kill we would have to know how that individual felt about the abuse they received. Did they feel they were singled out for abuse? Were they singled out for abuse?

Did they internalize the abuse until it found other outlets (bullying, animal torture, etc) until it escalated to people?

Was one parent abusive and the other parent dominated and was this a model for their idea of how to control a relationship? The same scenario but the abused parent emotionally manipulated the individual, so that both parents did a head-trip on the individual?

To answer the OP's question serial killers have a common motivator, it's about control. In my opinion they are all angry about events in their lives they couldn't control. Dahmer,=his sexuality. Kemper=his abusive mother. Bundy=was born illegitimate in 1946 and had a physically mentally abusive grandfather. Aileen Wuornos= was raped and abused as a child.

I personally don't think there is a gene that creates a serial killer but lack of nurture and a sound home-life is the key to creating them. That's why I think the parents know their child is capable of the crimes they commit before they commit them but most want to deny it because it exposes the abusive home-life they come from. So I don't think it's a lack of feeling, rather it's an excess of feeling that they haven't had a healthy way or know of a healthy way of dealing with all the rage they felt. Does it excuse their crimes? No! But it does show the effect of childhood abuse.

I watched an interview of Larry King with Dahmer's father and step-mother and while they seem all nice and the epitome of what good Christian's should be, you could see the denial in action in the interview. His father stated that while in jail Jeff asked for creationist literature and became a born again Christian and that he knew, Jeff was sincere because he was never going to be released and so it wasn't a jail house conversion. His father seemed so proud that his son had become 'born again', was quick to point out that Jeffery had asked for the literature and had a true conversion. That JD admitted the desire for control motivated him and that he had been an atheist and felt lower than slime (or something to that effect) but he didn't know why he killed. (Really? you don't know why your son killed?) There was a weirdness in the interview of how the parents switched gears from sad and contrite about JD's actions to upbeat, when Larry asked if there was going to be a movie made about Jeffery.

Mabon.

Exactly .... well observed, its a reflection of the problem as a whole in modern society, not just the individual that turned out as killers ... there in lies the Rorschach test ...

~

[Mabon]

I agree it is the problem of the whole of society!

I've been reading about the bullying of the autistic child in Texas and can't believe some of the comments from the neighbors that the kid deserved to be bullied? This child has a known disorder and yet is the recipient of abuse and bullying but instead of looking at the kids who did the bullying (and why they felt entitled to do so), the teacher who overlooked the abuse, the school system who didn't really want to get involved until it made the news and then the internet (my favorite quote from one of the school officials-"the teachers aren't there to stop bullying, it's up to the students to stop the bullying.") and we wonder why or where killers come from? I'm not talking about the kid with autism, I'm talking about the kids who are bullying him. They found someone vulnerable to exploit, to take out their frustrations on.

Mabon.

[SHaYap]

Kids from the age that they start becoming 'aware' to the age of seven is highly impressionable, the proverbial 'empty page' ... what they get to see and mimic at this time span practically fixed their behavioral patterns of their future ... when they are responsible for themselves in society its practically a dice throw or two.

This is find very very disturbing for the future :

The new US recycling program: Troubled children adopted from overseas

By Nicholas D. Kristof

The New York Times November 22, 2013

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/11/22/3396960/the-new-us-recycling-program-troubled.html#storylink=cpy

A few ads offering free children on the Internet:

“Born in October of 2000 – this handsome boy, ‘Rick,' was placed from India a year ago and is obedient and eager to please.”

“We adopted an 8-year-old girl from China. … Unfortunately, we are now struggling, having been home for 5 days.”

“Prayerfully seeking a loving and nurturing family for our 14-year-old daughter who has been with us for almost a year. She honestly is almost a model child.”

This is “private re-homing,” something that once meant finding a new home for a dog that barked too much. Now it refers to families recycling their adopted children, often through Internet postings.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/11/22/3396960/the-new-us-recycling-program-troubled.html#storylink=cpy

• Newsobserver link
  

Americans use the Internet to abandon children adopted from overseas

• 
  By Megan Twohey
  
• 
  Filed September 9, 2013
  

Part 1: When a Liberian girl proves too much for her parents, they advertise her online and give her to a couple they’ve never met. Days later, she goes missing.

KIEL, Wisconsin – Todd and Melissa Puchalla struggled for more than two years to raise Quita, the troubled teenager they'd adopted from Liberia. When they decided to give her up, they found new parents to take her in less than two days – by posting an ad on the Internet.

• Reuters link
  

~

[Mabon]

OMG! This article is just heartbreaking!

Another mother wrote of re-homing her 12-year-old daughter: “I would have given her away to a serial killer, I was so desperate.”

from the same article.

Mabon.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/11/22/3396960/the-new-us-recycling-program-troubled.html#storylink=cpy

[SHaYap]

I know

OMG! This article is just heartbreaking!

from the same article.

Mabon.

~link snip

I know ... that one caught my attention first of all ... you know how it is when there are 'concerns' regarding pedophiles getting their hands on these kids ... it probably has already happened.

~~

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Im confused Mabon you say Ted Bundies Grandfather was abusive but Keninsc says he was p***ed because he was born out of wedlock? I guess I could have been both

[Mabon]

I do think it was both but I was talking about the stigma of his birth because in today's society that's becoming less of a problem, again in certain circles it is still a big deal.,understanding that may be more abstract than being hit or abused.

Mabon.

[born2run]

Never having met one , can't speak from experience but to think of them as "monsters", not really. Most are highly intelligent, motivated, though we seldom know what motivated their behavior to become so destructive toward others, in other cases it is quite clear, simple cause/effect. They have to be to get away with 5, 10, 20, or more murders, not to mention the hiding of the bodies, if they are motivated to do so for reason(s) we might not ever fully know. In many case, others around them have no clue that their neighbor, who is seen playing with his wife and child, may go out at night one or two times a month, and simply kill the first person they meet walking on the street by stabbing them with something simple like a screwdriver, leave it in them, and keep on walking or "accidently run into them, a couple of fast stabs in a vital area, and aside from any blood that he/she might get on them, they might just appear to be two people running into each other;an accident, nothing more, nothing less. The "ritual killers" have a routine that must be held to, even if it might be noticed as "odd" or "different" in each case, then there are the types that must kill in a different way each time, from how the vic. is dress, body position, general appearance how each were killed, anything in common or totally different with nothing in common, unless it has to do with the physical aspect, gender, hair color, body type, etc. The only thing one can predict of a "serial killer" that they will keep on until stopped or something inside allows them to stop, maybe for the rest of their lives, maybe for a week, but it seems to just control them and whatever it is, the killers have no control over it. That is what is my friends in law enforcement say is really frightening.

[DamianFarrow]

It's fair to say that a lot of the big serial killers were mentally bucked in the head so to speak.

One of the main psychological problems a fair few of them possess is sociopathy but then environment, beliefs etc. also play a part too. They're complex creatures and a lot of what made them who they are was built into the fiber of their being from birth (violent tendencies, sexual deviancy, etc.); society just took care of the rest by providing an environment. It's very easy for a man like Bundy to go about getting victims because he thrived off of killing women and once the sun goes down, they're available by the bar full.

As for beliefs, they're also instrumental to a serial killer's nature and habits. Take the Shankill Butchers for example. Their environment and beliefs gave them the A-OK to kill people freely and without putting a stain on their consciounse because to them it was 'Right to kill a taig (Catholic)'.

They're certainly not emotionless, serial killers. They have to have something going on up there to make them want to kill. It's just that they usually have a heightened emotional response to something which makes them want to kill and this often overshadows the other emotions, emotions that would otherwise have them functioning 'normally'. A serial killer might have a strong emotional response to violence but have little feelings of empathy thus, giving way to his or her deeds.

I might just be rambling though, I haven't slept in like 20 hours.

[MissMelsWell]

Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer) wasn't bright by any stretch of the imagination, with an IQ somewhere in the mid 80s. His upbringing while not perfect wasn't horrifying -- his mother is simply described as domineering, but she wasn't a monster according to most. It sounds like he was born to do what he did on some level. His habit of harming people started when he was a child. Which always made me wonder if she was domineering because she knew on some level her kid had massive problems.

I know people who knew Ridgeway, all of them agree he was always weird, anti-social, and not at all operating with a full deck. According to them, he was always just kind of "blank". Not happy, not sad, not excited, just... nothing. And also nearly impossible to talk to for longer than a sentence or two because he simply was incapable of engaging in any kind of conversation unless he was obsessing about something like the Bible, but even that was rare.

A former co-worker of mine worked with Ridgeway in the early 90s, and he was also on the Green River Task Force as a college intern. Ridgeway knew this and I think he may have even known that my co-worker KNEW he was the Green River Killer as well, and it didn't phase Ridgeway at all--it's unknown if this was a manifestation of narcissism or simple apathy. It was possibly a bit of both.

Edited December 3, 2013 by MissMelsWell

[SHaYap]

The personal impressions of these individuals is always much more revealing and precise than the made for public versions ...

[Mabon]

MissMelswell,

This sounds like abuse to me.

Ridgway's homelife was somewhat troubled; relatives have described his mother as domineering and have said that young Ridgway witnessed more than one violent argument between his parents.^[3] As a boy, Ridgway had a habit of wetting the bed. His mother would often be the one to discover the accidents and would bathe him immediately. She would also belittle and embarrass him in front of his family. From a young age, Ridgway had conflicting feelings of sexual attraction and anger toward her.^[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Ridgway

Or this quote.

Gary Ridgway was born to Mary and Thomas Ridgway in Salt Lake City, Utah, the second of three sons. Gary had a somewhat troubled childhood growing up in Seattle, as he was often involving in violent arguments with his parents and specifically his mother. Ridgway had a habit of bedwetting into his early teens, which earned him further belittlement and embarrassment from his mother. To further complicate matters, Gary always had conflicting feelings of sexual attraction and anger towards her. His father, a bus driver and part-time mortuary worker, often told stories of coworkers engaging in acts of ********** to his son.

http://thebridgewaytoridgway.weebly.com/childhood--early-life.html

To me this doesn't sound like a normal family. Who tells their son inappropriate stories like that? Being belittled for bed wetting is abusive, it lowers the person's self-esteem and doesn't treat the problem.

Mabon.