Saru Posted July 9, 2013 #1 Share Posted July 9, 2013 The complete fossil of a 23 million-year-old lizard has been discovered preserved in a piece of amber. Mexican scientists are currently examining a complete fossil of a lizard that has remained entombed in a chunk of amber for some 23 million years, according to a recent report in La Jornada en Linea. Read more... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirlfromOz Posted July 9, 2013 #2 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Most species of insect or animal that have been found preserved in amber etc have become recent topics of question,most recently,being the most questionable of sources,carbon dating.Just like our questioning of accuracy of any process has been deemed inaccurate.Carbon dating has been deemed inaccurate &,via it's sources due to surrounding contaminations of nearby materials etc. No-one is able to be specific.My questioning is why these scientists seem so specific in their judgement of when & where these creatures existed & as to why they are judged by a seemed theorized date in Earth's history. Edited July 9, 2013 by GirlfromOz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac E Posted July 9, 2013 #3 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Carbon dating isn't meant to date that far back in history due to the half life of it. They can look at heavier elemental half lives to determine this age range as well as already established strata in the rock layers where it's found. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 9, 2013 #4 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Most species of insect or animal that have been found preserved in amber etc have become recent topics of question,most recently,being the most questionable of sources,carbon dating.Just like our questioning of accuracy of any process has been deemed inaccurate.Carbon dating has been deemed inaccurate &,via it's sources due to surrounding contaminations of nearby materials etc. No-one is able to be specific.My questioning is why these scientists seem so specific in their judgement of when & where these creatures existed & as to why they are judged by a seemed theorized date in Earth's history. The article says that they have dated the Chipas amber bed to 23M years ago. I am sure they didn't use carbon dating as it is too old for that but there are various experimental methods used to date amber http://www.gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Amber none of which is very exact but 23M years, give or take a million years, should be good enough for this find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 9, 2013 #5 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Poor little lizard... Cool article and find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted July 9, 2013 #6 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Huh. Considering how well preserved the lizard is, I think I'll adjust my mortuary details, such to where I'm encased in amber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted July 9, 2013 #7 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Huh. Considering how well preserved the lizard is, I think I'll adjust my mortuary details, such to where I'm encased in amber. Would not work, you would have to encased in tree sap, which then has to fossilize. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumball Posted July 9, 2013 #8 Share Posted July 9, 2013 HUH!! Says the man with three toes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 10, 2013 #9 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I'd be willing to go out into the forests of the Great Northwest and start gathering sap to preserve Pallidin. Agter he starts hardening, I'm going to carve my initials into the amber though. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 10, 2013 #10 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I'd be willing to go out into the forests of the Great Northwest and start gathering sap to preserve Pallidin. Agter he starts hardening, I'm going to carve my initials into the amber though. Pallidin? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 10, 2013 #11 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Pallidin? See post #6 above..... pallidin Alien Abducter Member 4,885 posts Joined:09 Dec 2004 Gender:Male Location:Somewhere south of the North Pole "When life gets you down... swim with a dolphin" Edited July 10, 2013 by DieChecker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolguy Posted July 10, 2013 #12 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Very awesome find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolguy Posted July 10, 2013 #13 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) It's cool that it still has its skin Edited July 10, 2013 by coolguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lava_Lady Posted July 10, 2013 #14 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I want it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted July 10, 2013 #15 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) I'd be willing to go out into the forests of the Great Northwest and start gathering sap to preserve Pallidin. Agter he starts hardening, I'm going to carve my initials into the amber though. You bring up a good point. I wonder how long it takes various tree saps to actually harden into what we call "amber" I suppose I could Google that. Maybe I could "fast track" the hardening through UV lamps. Just kidding of course. Even still, I presume that preservation starts with sap encasement before final hardening. Perhaps the degree of tissue preservation is dependent on the type of tree sap(how the sap affects tissues, etc...). I don't know. In any event, you are more than welcome to carve your initials. Ah heck, maybe I should just make it simple and encase my dead body in fast drying liquid plastic. But to be in amber sounds more archealogicaly appealing. Edited July 10, 2013 by pallidin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted July 10, 2013 #16 Share Posted July 10, 2013 You bring up a good point. I wonder how long it takes various tree saps to actually harden into what we call "amber" I suppose I could Google that. Maybe I could "fast track" the hardening through UV lamps. Just kidding of course. Even still, I presume that preservation starts with sap encasement before final hardening. Perhaps the degree of tissue preservation is dependent on the type of tree sap(how the sap affects tissues, etc...). I don't know. In any event, you are more than welcome to carve your initials. Ah heck, maybe I should just make it simple and encase my dead body in fast drying liquid plastic. But to be in amber sounds more archealogicaly appealing. Not quite the same, your chances of fossilizing in liquid plastic are not as good as in a mineral or biological agent (in fact, your chances of fossilizing at all are pretty slim). Even in plastic anaerobic bacteria your body carries around all the time would decompose you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted July 10, 2013 #17 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Carbon dating has been deemed inaccurate Creationist garbage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 10, 2013 #18 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Creationist garbage. Yes but it is really irrelevant here since carbon dating isn't doable past 60K years or so. Why it was brought up regarding a 20M year old lizard is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 10, 2013 #19 Share Posted July 10, 2013 You bring up a good point. I wonder how long it takes various tree saps to actually harden into what we call "amber" I suppose I could Google that. Maybe I could "fast track" the hardening through UV lamps. Just kidding of course. Even still, I presume that preservation starts with sap encasement before final hardening. Perhaps the degree of tissue preservation is dependent on the type of tree sap(how the sap affects tissues, etc...). I don't know. In any event, you are more than welcome to carve your initials. Ah heck, maybe I should just make it simple and encase my dead body in fast drying liquid plastic. But to be in amber sounds more archealogicaly appealing. What about raw maple syrup? We could probably get ahold of a ton of that and lay you out in a box and encase you in it.... Probably it would not be transparent though. Not immediately anyway. Probably work real well if we freeze dried you first... get rid of the decomposition agents and water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted July 10, 2013 #20 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Yes but it is really irrelevant here since carbon dating isn't doable past 60K years or so. Why it was brought up regarding a 20M year old lizard is beyond me. Because Earth is "only 6000 years old"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 10, 2013 #21 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Because Earth is "only 6000 years old"? First it was 60K as in 60,000 years, not 6000 and the reason is beyond 60K years there isn't enough trace C14 to separate from the background radiation. Some use an accelerator method in certain circumstances that can extend the time to 100K years. Edited July 10, 2013 by Merc14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted July 10, 2013 #22 Share Posted July 10, 2013 First it was 60K as in 60,000 years, not 6000 and the reason is beyond 60K years there isn't enough trace C14 to separate from the background radiation. Some use an accelerator method in certain circumstances that can extend the time to 100K years http://lmgtfy.com/?q=carbon+dating I am talking about those who claim that 14C is unreliable. They claim it can't be because the Earth is only 6000 years old. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc14 Posted July 10, 2013 #23 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I am talking about those who claim that 14C is unreliable. They claim it can't be because the Earth is only 6000 years old. Sorry for the confusion. Ahh, the man road dinosaurs crowd. Silliness squared. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted July 11, 2013 #24 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Yes but it is really irrelevant here since carbon dating isn't doable past 60K years or so. Why it was brought up regarding a 20M year old lizard is beyond me. Carbon dating wasn't mentioned in the article, creationists don't know what they're arguing against most the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted July 11, 2013 #25 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Someone please straighten me out but aren't there dozens of these methods of dating things based on the varying half-lives of the elements involved and isn't C-14 only one used for quite recent things that contain organic matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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