Spontaneous fire in 787 Dreamliner...

[keithisco]

Once again a fire aboard one of Boeing's new Flagship, The 787 Dreamliner, leads to it being grounded at Heathrow airport.... I wonder if this time they will put in the effort required to reassure the travelling public that the aircraft is safe?

"Flight have resumed at London's Heathrow Airport after a fire on a parked Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 787 Dreamliner jet.

All runways were closed for nearly 90 minutes after the fire at 16:30 BST. No passengers were aboard the plane at the time, a Heathrow spokesman said.

Fifty Dreamliners worldwide were grounded in January after malfunctions with the plane's lithium-ion batteries".

Read more, courtesy of BBC News: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23294760

Edited July 12, 2013 by keithisco

[questionmark]

I am hearing rumors about a second Dreamliner incident today... looks like it is not a good week for Boeing.

[questionmark]

and the confirmation of the second Dreamliner in trouble:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/fire-on-parked-plane-at-uks-heathrow-airport-closes-down-runways-no-passengers-aboard/2013/07/12/ed655074-eb0e-11e2-818e-aa29e855f3ab_story.html?hpid=z3

[keithisco]

Strangely it seems that this 787 was empty and parked up in a holding area. Now, how does a fire start, and breach the skin of the cabin near the root of the Vertical Tail Plane? Was the Ground Power Supply connected and if so what systems were active?

The fire damaged area is actually just forward of the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) located in the tail with the anti-icing Hot Bleed Air system (piping)running through the same area. The APU itself is housed in an explosion proof enclosure and would have not been running if the aircraft was unattended.

The Galleys are directly underneath that section, but again should not have been powered.

I can only think that it was an electrical fault (short circuit) with an energising source also mal-functioning to supply current... This does rule out a Battery fault yet, but maybe not the Lithium batteries (but as the root cause was NEVER discovered who can really say?).

As usual there is very little information being released

[NatureBoff]

The 777 crash at SFO is also a mystery with apparent auto-throttle malfunctions. It's not the type of plane or airline company though imv; it's the increase in number of terrestrial Flyby Anomaly Phenomena. Narrow short-lived 'dark gravity' beams originating from neutron-rich matter at the center of the Earth.

First, a battery ignited on a Japan Airlines 787 shortly after it landed at Boston’s Logan International Airport on Jan. 7. Passengers had already left the plane, but it took firefighters 40 minutes to put out the blaze.

Problems also popped up on other planes. There were fuel and oil leaks, a cracked cockpit window and a computer glitch that erroneously indicated a brake problem.

Then a 787 flown by Japan’s All Nippon Airways made an emergency landing after pilots were alerted to battery problems and detected a burning smell. Both Japanese airlines grounded their Dreamliner fleets. The FAA, which just days earlier insisted that the plane was safe, did the same with U.S. planes on January 16

[keithisco]

The 777 crash at SFO is also a mystery with apparent auto-throttle malfunctions. It's not the type of plane or airline company though imv; it's the increase in number of terrestrial Flyby Anomaly Phenomena. Narrow short-lived 'dark gravity' beams originating from neutron-rich matter at the center of the Earth.

RFTC... you are joking?...aren't you??

I mean, how would the "Dark Gravity" beams cause a fire on a grounded aircraft?? Did you forget your medication today?

Edited July 13, 2013 by keithisco

[Mr.United_Nations]

The 777 crash at SFO is also a mystery with apparent auto-throttle malfunctions. It's not the type of plane or airline company though imv; it's the increase in number of terrestrial Flyby Anomaly Phenomena. Narrow short-lived 'dark gravity' beams originating from neutron-rich matter at the center of the Earth.

Or it was Pilot training.

[NatureBoff]

RFTC... you are joking?...aren't you??

I mean, how would the "Dark Gravity" beams cause a fire on a grounded aircraft?? Did you forget your medication today?

No, I took my half pill of 10g citolpram as per usual.

[keithisco]

No, I took my half pill of 10g citolpram as per usual.

I am not a Medical Doctor and would not give any advice , but I would strongly recommend checking with your Doctor that he / she has prescribed the right dosage, it strikes me as extraordinarily high!!! This is a serious post, no sarcasm.

Edited July 13, 2013 by keithisco

[NatureBoff]

I am not a Medical Doctor and would not give any advice , but I would strongly recommend checking with your Doctor that he / she has prescribed the right dosage, it strikes me as extraordinarily high!!! This is a serious post, no sarcasm.

No 10mg is the lowest descr.....I just realised I meant .... hah(lo..

[keithisco]

No 10mg is the lowest descr.....I just realised I meant .... hah(lo..

Thanks goodness for that!! *phew*

[itsnotoutthere]

Funny isn't it how when Concorde had that accident (freak accident not mechanical) Boeing were first off the starting block to demand all Concordes were grounded, perhaps he E.U. could do something pro-active and call for the grounding of all Boeing Dreamliners until everyones sure that they are safe.

[keithisco]

Funny isn't it how when Concorde had that accident (freak accident not mechanical) Boeing were first off the starting block to demand all Concordes were grounded, perhaps he E.U. could do something pro-active and call for the grounding of all Boeing Dreamliners until everyones sure that they are safe.

They should never have been allowed to fly again until the root cause of the fires had been determined in the first place! Boeing said (basically) that they had no idea what caused those fires but we'll put it in a box to ensure the fire cant spread!!

This is the first time, that I am aware of, that a Corporation has been allowed to state this and still to have a model be given unrestricted permission to fly internationally.

What it comes down to is this:

This was the first new aircraft Boeing had built for 40 yrs, they no longer had the expertise within the USA to build it so had to Out Source systems to a lot of foreign Nations, Their manufacturing facility was out of the Ark (lots of delays there), they were responsible for these particular electrical systems, they failed to employ Independent Functional Safety Consultants with sufficient experience to be able to read Schematics (mechanical and electrical) who would have pointed out the shortcomings, and finally (due to production delays) totally failed to implement sufficient flight - testing to ensure the Safety of this plane.

I will not fly in this aircraft (I average 150 flights a year) because I am not convinced that it is Safe.

The way forward? Bring in a team of International Functional Safety Consultants to review the design in all areas, to hold HAZID consultations, to make them face up to International Regulations and Safety Experience from those nations that hold them to be paramount in releasing any new design!

They need to do something to regain trust in the flying public that this aircraft is safe...

Edited July 14, 2013 by keithisco

[NatureBoff]

Strangely it seems that this 787 was empty and parked up in a holding area. Now, how does a fire start, and breach the skin of the cabin near the root of the Vertical Tail Plane? Was the Ground Power Supply connected and if so what systems were active?

The fire damaged area is actually just forward of the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) located in the tail with the anti-icing Hot Bleed Air system (piping)running through the same area. The APU itself is housed in an explosion proof enclosure and would have not been running if the aircraft was unattended.

The Galleys are directly underneath that section, but again should not have been powered.

I can only think that it was an electrical fault (short circuit) with an energising source also mal-functioning to supply current... This does rule out a Battery fault yet, but maybe not the Lithium batteries (but as the root cause was NEVER discovered who can really say?).

As usual there is very little information being released

There's been spontaneous fires witnessed by scientists in Italy 2004

Devil in the detail of Sicily's mysterious village fires

Gianfranco Allegra, of the Italian Centre for Electro-technical Experimentation, told the newspaper Corriere della Sera that he had watched as "an electrical wire lying on the floor that was not plugged in to the mains inexplicably caught fire". When he reported the incident to his superiors in Milan he was told to sober up.

[NatureBoff]

Strangely it seems that this 787 was empty and parked up in a holding area. Now, how does a fire start, and breach the skin of the cabin near the root of the Vertical Tail Plane? Was the Ground Power Supply connected and if so what systems were active?

The fire damaged area is actually just forward of the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) located in the tail with the anti-icing Hot Bleed Air system (piping)running through the same area. The APU itself is housed in an explosion proof enclosure and would have not been running if the aircraft was unattended.

The Galleys are directly underneath that section, but again should not have been powered.

I can only think that it was an electrical fault (short circuit) with an energising source also mal-functioning to supply current... This does rule out a Battery fault yet, but maybe not the Lithium batteries (but as the root cause was NEVER discovered who can really say?).

As usual there is very little information being released

There was instantaneous fire in a disconnected cable witnessed by scientists in a village in Italy.

Gianfranco Allegra, of the Italian Centre for Electro-technical Experimentation, told the newspaper Corriere della Sera that he had watched as "an electrical wire lying on the floor that was not plugged in to the mains inexplicably caught fire". When he reported the incident to his superiors in Milan he was told to sober up.

Edited July 15, 2013 by NatureBoff

[Mr.United_Nations]

Italy? 2004? this is a plane not ITALY!!!

[NatureBoff]

Are humans dying from spontaneously combustion on the increase too? Berhaps the alcohol in the blood is a key factor as well as the ignition source?

Man, 65, believed to have died from spontaneous combustion after a pile of charred remains is found and no trace of fire source or other damage

Is the blue fire the result of left spinning oxygen molecules?

10 Cases of Spontaneous Human Combustion

Wikipedia:

Another hypothesis suggests high-energy particles or gamma rays[1] coupled with susceptibilities in the potential victim (e.g., increased alcohol in the blood) trigger the initial reaction. This process may use no external oxygen to spread throughout the body, since it may not be an “oxidation-reduction” reaction. However, no reaction mechanism has been proposed.

Ball lightning, a mysterious and debated phenomenon itself, has been suggested as a possible cause of spontaneous combustion.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Are humans dying from spontaneously combustion on the increase too? Berhaps the alcohol in the blood is a key factor as well as the ignition source?

Man, 65, believed to have died from spontaneous combustion after a pile of charred remains is found and no trace of fire source or other damage

Is the blue fire the result of left spinning oxygen molecules?

10 Cases of Spontaneous Human Combustion

Wikipedia:

A plane!! you need info from planes!!!!!!!

[NatureBoff]

No! A NASA scientist has witnessed electrical cable, which is unplugged, spontaneously combust. This IS science. The two could easily be connected. Both are UNSOLVED mysteries. They could have the same root cause of origin.

[keithisco]

No! A NASA scientist has witnessed electrical cable, which is unplugged, spontaneously combust. This IS science. The two could easily be connected. Both are UNSOLVED mysteries. They could have the same root cause of origin.

PLEASE... go away, this is a serious thread based on Scientific principles and hard Engineering facts. In particular this problem is being addressed by Aeronautical Engineers of the highest standing.

Go away!!

[NatureBoff]

PLEASE... go away, this is a serious thread based on Scientific principles and hard Engineering facts. In particular this problem is being addressed by Aeronautical Engineers of the highest standing.

Go away!!

lol

[questionmark]

in related news:

787 Fire Inquiry Focuses on Transmitter

British safety investigators are examining whether a malfunction in an emergency locator transmitter or other equipment in the rear of a Boeing 787 Dreamliner caused the plane to catch fire on Friday at Heathrow Airport in London, federal and industry officials said Monday.

The transmitter, which would send out the plane’s location after a crash, is powered by a small lithium-manganese battery. The officials, who would speak only under the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the inquiry publicly, said investigators were focused on whether the transmitter could have caused the fire or helped it spread.

Read more

[NatureBoff]

"..powered by a small lithium-manganese battery."

Thanks for the info. Yes, this the connection with the other 787 Li battery problem. Spontaneous combustion due to Flyby Anomaly Phenomena imv.

Boeing's 787 Lithium-ion Batteries are Inherently Unsafe, Says Elon Musk

Note that the Flyby Anomaly Phenomena would also affect Li batteries on the space station

NASA says space station's batteries safer than 787's

Edited July 16, 2013 by NatureBoff

[NatureBoff]

There's more to this than meets the eye..

Northampton 'explosions' treated as unexplained (Jun 5 2103)

Three "explosions" heard in the early hours of the morning in Northampton are being treated as unexplained.

Northamptonshire Fire Service investigated the separate reports in St Mary's Street, Castle Street and Silver Street but "didn't find anything".

Andy Gineikis, who lives nearby, said he heard a "loud bang" similar to a shotgun blast at about 03:30 BST.

Western Power Distribution said there had been a power cut in the Abington area of Northampton at about 04:40.

A spokesperson said it was possible that it could have produced a bang but the cause of the power cut was as yet unknown.

'Loud bang'

About 900 houses lost their power but the spokesperson said all of the connections were restored by 05:20.

The fire service said the first "explosion" was reported at 02:59 in St Mary's Street, followed by a call from Castle Street at 03:34 and Silver Street at 05:19.

The roads are all close to each other.

Mr Gineikis said: "I was awake and heard a loud bang at 03:30.

"I noticed when I got up this morning that all my digital timers were flashing which usually happens if we have a power interruption."

Northamptonshire Police said the bangs were a "bit of a mystery".

[Mr.United_Nations]

There's more to this than meets the eye..

Northampton 'explosions' treated as unexplained (Jun 5 2103)

power cut..