Trayvon...A lesson for all Americans

[keithisco]

So if I said "He didnt ask him any questions.... you know it seems like you know very little about this cause other than one of em was wearing shoes"

Would that mean im saying you have a foot fetish??? You make no sense dude.

I think you need to take your meds. I wrote in perfect Oxford English. You stated the colour of one of the people involved, not I, that makes you the laggard for not understanding the import of my response.

[DeWitz]

http://www.huffingto..._n_3585911.html

Why is the liberal press profiling George Zimmerman as a racist? Obviously George was found not guilty of a crime. Why does the liberal press not report that Trayvon was committing a crime against George?

Trayvon was suspended from school just days before he was shot. He was caught possessing marijuana at school. His phone contained photos of him smoking pot and videos of street fights he recorded. When you think of Chicago, this is what comes to mind, a culture of criminals, drug dealers, gang members and constant violence.

As Geraldo points out, if you dress like a criminal, act like a criminal, you will be profiled as a criminal. When are the young americans in this country going to get the message?

I never realized that the penalty for marijuana possession, taking photos of oneself smoking pot, and of others fighting was summary execution in a public street by a private citizen.

Once we begin using 'Geraldo' as a legitimate reference point, we're in the deep weeds--although even a broken clock is correct twice per day.

[Clarakore]

You wont give this this up will you? Of course it is about race because you brought it up. Z is white then? He is Hispanic and deserves the respect that being an Hispanic is. But, above all he is a USA Citizen, colour should not be the issue, he is US American in every part of his soul and body.

Youz may not realise this, but there are many Hispanic and black Judges in the USA, I am sure they just believe that they are American, not Hispanic, not Black , but just American...

I look at your avatar, Princess Diana? That is an insult to most people in the UK because of your views

Let us focus on the topic alone and our views, please. My avatar has nothing to do with the topic. If that has to be included in the argument than how strong is that argument?

---

The American Census Bureau recognizes that Hispanics can be of any race and are not a race of themselves.

People who identify their origin as Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino may be of any race

http://quickfacts.ce...g_RHI725211.htm

These are the five official races as recognized by our government:

White, Black or African American, American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, and Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander.

http://www.census.gov/population/race/

Whites can be varied and one can be White and Hispanic or one can also be a Non-Hispanic White.

http://factfinder2.c...white_alone.htm

Zimmerman is white. Because his mother is Hispanic does not take away from that. Everyone who testified for him was white. That is who he immediately lived among, that defines his culture, those were his neighbors, and his father his white.

His mother might be of mixed-ancestry but that does not take away from the cultural aspects of his whiteness.

His "cousin" also claimed his immediate family did not like black people unless they "acted white".

Did she say unless they "acted Hispanic?"

No, she said unless they "acted white".

This is from his family.

Pretending he is not white is just an act. Pretending other people are making it about race when his own family does not like blacks unless they "act white" is just an act.

The fact is his family does not like blacks unless they act like them, unless they "act white", thus his family identifies with white.

George Zimmerman is a beneficiary of white privilege. It matters not that his mother is Hispanic, for the benefits of white privilege can be bestowed on a light-skinned Hispanic who passes as white just as easily as they can be conferred upon a person who is “all white”. Race after all, is a social construction, and if a person passes as white in a given setting then he is objectively white in that block of space and time. So while Zimmerman’s defenders like to play up his Peruvian mother and his Hispanic identity as proof that his alleged crime was not racially motivated, those defenses fail to stand up to the complexity of modern racism, which is not simply an issue of black or white but involves several shades of gray.

http://www.politicus...-privilege.html

We can agree to disagree but the view here will remain that his own family has defined themselves as part of white culture by claiming to not like blacks unless they "act white".

Edited July 15, 2013 by The world needs you

[keithisco]

Why does he have to be the "black" friend why cant he be this friend I know who like watermelon...lol sorry bad joke.

I realy didnt call anyone racist in this thread. Was just saying a joke about someone saying his friend is black.

QED... you just cant help yourself can you? Not even a good joke...my friends have names, not colour pigmentation, if anyone doesn't like it then they are not my friends... it is all about personality, integrity, and honesty

[Clarakore]

This is definitely not a brown vs black murder.

It was not the overwhelming support of the Hispanic community that came to Zimmerman's defense.

On the other hand the Martin family has the support from a cross section of society including whites, blacks, Hispanics, and other non-ethnic categories such as the LGBTQ community.

Zimmerman had none of that.

Many recognize this is beyond Zimmerman and Trayvon but about a systemic legacy that treats blacks different than the mainstream. When it comes to the justice system blacks are treated differently as defendants and as victims.

In this case Trayvon was the victim and the system fails yet again because the perpetrator was a white Hispanic. At the end of the day it favored him not because of the Hispanic part of the equation but because Zimmerman got to take advantage of white privilege.

Fortunately, more are recognizing this and it will move us closer to social equality in this nation.

Unfortunately, it comes at the price of another life. Trayvon Martin is a martyr.

Edited July 15, 2013 by The world needs you

[shrooma]

Why does he have to be the "black" friend why cant he be this friend I know who like watermelon...lol sorry bad joke.

.

yes. it was.

and i can just imagine how quickly you'd be hitting the 'report' button if keith had made such a joke?

hypocrisy will never strengthen your argument i'm afraid Heru.

[Heru]

QED... you just cant help yourself can you? Not even a good joke...my friends have names, not colour pigmentation, if anyone doesn't like it then they are not my friends... it is all about personality, integrity, and honesty

OMG this thread isnt about if Keithisco is racist or not. No one called you racist your the one that defended himself against no accuser.

[DeWitz]

I have a question?

I havnt been following this case all that closely, but isn't it a crime to stalk someone? To me this seems like its 2 people who where in the wrong place at the wrong time. One trying to get some place and ended up being targeted by a man who mistook him for a trouble maker.

Was race involved? Probably, you have a fenced off community where a hooded young black youth is entering. One of the residents thought that was suspicious and it ended up with a fight where the winner was the one with a gun.

In many regards both sides this was a case of self defence.

In most states stalking has to be demonstrated by a pattern of behavior, not a one-time deal. Possibly Zimmerman could have been charged with harassment for accosting Trayvon, but his status as a neighborhood watch person--however minimally trained, poorly supervised and apparently overzealous--might have excused him,.

I'm still missing the 'self-defense' angle since the unarmed individual ended up dead.

Edited July 15, 2013 by szentgyorgy

[Heru]

.

yes. it was.

and i can just imagine how quickly you'd be hitting the 'report' button if keith had made such a joke?

hypocrisy will never strengthen your argument i'm afraid Heru.

No i wouldnt. And what argument. Can you even state an agrument in a joke???

[Heru]

In most states stalking has to be demonstrated by a pattern of behavior, not a one-time deal. Possibly Zimmerman could have been charged with harassment for accosting Trayvon, but his status as a neighborhood watch person--however minimally trained, poorly supervised and apparently overzealous--might have excused him,.

I'm still missing the 'self-defense' angle since the unarmed individual ended up dead.

Never been in a neighborhood watch but dont they have sections or zones they monitor ( houses near there house). I remember reading he left his vehicle to look at the street signs so he could tell the cops where to come. That always threw me off on why was he trying to find street signs if he was in his own neighborhood.

[rashore]

I'm so disappointed in this thread... The guy that practically invented trash TV made a sensationalist comment... And practically everyone snapped it on up like silverpike gone a chummin. Really, it's disgusting how the media whips up frenzy.. equally awful is how many folks just can't leave meatsuit out of it.

[shrooma]

No i wouldnt. And what argument. Can you even state an agrument in a joke???

.

argument meaning your contradictory stance, not argument like 'let's all throw stuff at each other'

and yes, you can state an argument in a joke.

you implied keith was being racist, and then you told a racist joke, which amounts to hypocrisy.

[keithisco]

Let us focus on the topic alone and our views, please. My avatar has nothing to do with the topic. If that has to be included in the argument than how strong is that argument?

---

The American Census Bureau recognizes that Hispanics can be of any race and are not a race of themselves.

http://quickfacts.ce...g_RHI725211.htm

These are the five official races as recognized by our government:

http://www.census.gov/population/race/

Whites can be varied and one can be White and Hispanic or one can also be a Non-Hispanic White.

Zimmerman is white. Because his mother is Hispanic does not take away from that. Everyone who testified for him was white. That is who he immediately lived among, that defines his culture, those were his neighbors, and his father his white.

His mother might be of mixed-ancestry but that does not take away from the cultural aspects of his whiteness.

His "cousin" also claimed his immediate family did not like black people unless they "acted white".

Did she say unless they "acted Hispanic?"

No, she said unless they "acted white".

This is from his family.

Pretending he is not white is just an act. Pretending other people are making it about race when his own family does not like blacks unless they "act white" is just an act.

The fact is his family does not like blacks unless they act like them, unless they "act white", thus his family identifies with white.

http://www.politicus...-privilege.html

We can agree to disagree but the view here will remain that his own family has defined themselves as part of white culture by claiming to not like blacks unless they "act white".

You know, your arguments are not coherent. You have not told me what "White Culture" means, you have listed several Links that I have looked at, but none of them actually back up your claims, and certainly have no impact on this thread.

Here is a task for you:

1. Exactly what is "White Culture"?

2...Exactly: Which part of white culture is claimed to not like blacks unless they "act white".?

[shrooma]

I remember reading he left his vehicle to look at the street signs so he could tell the cops where to come. That always threw me off on why was he trying to find street signs if he was in his own neighborhood.

.

that does seem a bit odd?

[Heru]

.

argument meaning your contradictory stance, not argument like 'let's all throw stuff at each other'

and yes, you can state an argument in a joke.

you implied keith was being racist, and then you told a racist joke, which amounts to hypocrisy.

How did I imply he was being racist. By saying he only knew one fact about the case? Ill call him a racist for the hell of it if it makes you two feel better. Personaly I dont give two shakes of a 9155

[WoIverine]

There are many lessons to learn here, the first lesson begins with turning off your tv.

[Michelle]

Here is a task for you:

1. Exactly what is "White Culture"?

2...Exactly: Which part of white culture is claimed to not like blacks unless they "act white".?

I believe he's thinking of "gangsta" culture and attributing it to all blacks, which says a lot in itself.

[shrooma]

must admit, i'm not sure what white culture is either?

dressing badly?

buying justin bieber albums?

dancing like you're stamping out a blazing bag of s**t?

dying of stress-related heart attacks at 55?

my son's black, and he acts just like me, only not as dumb (i'm a drummer, he's a chef), so i'm a little confused!

[Clarakore]

You know, your arguments are not coherent. You have not told me what "White Culture" means, you have listed several Links that I have looked at, but none of them actually back up your claims, and certainly have no impact on this thread.

Here is a task for you:

1. Exactly what is "White Culture"?

2...Exactly: Which part of white culture is claimed to not like blacks unless they "act white".?

White culture will have many subsets from the historical WASP culture to the Appalachian culture.

Currently it still has many sections including the mainstream middle class lifestyle that many enjoy which comes with white privilege including how that pertains to the justice system.

The exact part of white culture that does not like blacks unless they "act white" is the one sustained by less and less of the mainstream but still shared by the Zimmerman family according to his cousin.

Edited July 15, 2013 by The world needs you

[shrooma]

There are many lessons to learn here, the first lesson begins with turning off your tv.

.

i don't own one Wolvie, and this kind of thing makes me realise why that's a good thing.....

;-)

[DeWitz]

.

is cheech marin white then too LBA?

or how about pele?

or ricky martin?

desi arnaz?

j-lo?

che guevara?

that bloke with the plate in his lip that sting always had in his videos?

there are a few hundred million south americans who are proud of their culture & heritage who probably wouldn't agree with you i'm afraid.....

Upon further review. . . I apologize if this is redundant; I read out of order again:

"Hispanic" is not a 'race,' it is an ethnicity. Check out US tax, passport, etc. forms: "White; Hispanic ethnicity. . . .White; non-Hispanic ethnicity."

This was introduced because of sensitivity on the part of some Latino leaders, and for the plain fact that "Hispanic" is not a race. For the first couple of hundred years of the Americas, almost all people of Hispanic origin were of Spanish and Portuguese descent, and therefore caucasian Europeans. Blended ethnicities came in the past 2-3 hundred years with the inter-mingling of indigenous (native american), European and African ethnic groups (Latin America now is largely a 'mestizo'--mixed--culture).

Some Hispanic persons in the Caribbean and Central America (and Brazil, with Portuguese and African influence) are as dark-skinned as many sub-Saharan Africans; New Mexicans of predominantly Spanish European extraction appear 'white;' "Hispanic" isn't in the eye of the beholder, but in one's genetic, ethnic, cultural and linguistic background.

All this discussion about "race" in this case is, in my opinion, counter-productive at best, destructive to effective communication at worst.

And: Geraldo is to competent journalism as Deputy Barney Fife is to Scotland Yard.

Edited July 15, 2013 by szentgyorgy

[Heru]

must admit, i'm not sure what white culture is either?

dressing badly?

buying justin bieber albums?

dancing like you're stamping out a blazing bag of s**t?

dying of stress-related heart attacks at 55?

my son's black, and he acts just like me, only not as dumb (i'm a drummer, he's a chef), so i'm a little confused!

lol for some reason I imagine ur son cutting food like hes playing drums.

[Michelle]

White culture will have many subsets from the historical WASP culture to the Appalachian culture.

Currently it still has many sections including the mainstream middle class lifestyle that many enjoy which comes with white privilege including how that pertains to the justice system.

The exact part of white culture that does not like blacks unless they "act white" is the one sustained by less and less of the mainstream but still shared by the Zimmerman family according to his cousin.

Do you mean like the gangster culture that calls people like Obama Uncle Toms...until he got into the White House anyway.

I'm still trying to figure out what "act white" means exactly.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Michelle

[Heru]

Do you mean like the gangster culture that calls people like Obama Uncle Toms...until he got into the White House anyway.

Whats with the "gangster" culture? Who has a gangster culture....

[keithisco]

White culture will have many subsets from the historical WASP culture to the Appalachian culture.

Currently it still has many sections including the mainstream middle class lifestyle that many enjoy which comes with white privilege including how that pertains to the justice system.

The exact part of white culture that does not like blacks unless they "act white" is the one sustained by less and less of the mainstream but still shared by the Zimmerman family according to his cousin.

So basically you are referring to White Anglo Saxon Protestant culture? (WASP) But isn't Z a Catholic?? How on earth does your argument here support your previous comments?

Are you prepared to accept a single person's (Z Cousin) take on life to actually change eveything that you know and love?

You need to do better in this debate...IMO

And now, to bed.. 23:44 here

Edited July 15, 2013 by keithisco