Did Chinese discover America?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Hello Umers!

Here is some interesting native american artifacts with Chinese (?) influence.

I ll let you be the judges.

Then this

Edited August 2, 2013 by the L

[kannin]

vikings were here as well, i could see this being a posibility

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Tiwanaku

Perhaps even easter Island

[Mr.United_Nations]

vikings were here as well, i could see this being a posibility

but vikings didn't stay long, they left soon after

[Big Bad Voodoo]

vikings were here as well, i could see this being a posibility

I see evidences not posobility.

[kannin]

but vikings didn't stay long, they left soon after

true but it bashes the christopher columbus factor, so i dont see it impossible for other cultures to have come here, ships were used all over, even egyptians

I see evidences not posobility.

but is it a proven fact they were here, i am a little sold on your "evidence" but im the type that needs solid fact

[Big Bad Voodoo]

but is it a proven fact they were here, i am a little sold on your "evidence" but im the type that needs solid fact

You never seen China house in your city?

Kidding. Its not proven. Thats why I post it in alternative history and ancient mysteries. But they seemed Chinese to me. And others Asian aswell.

[kannin]

You never seen China house in your city?

Kidding. Its not proven. Thats why I post it in alternative history and ancient mysteries. But they seemed Chinese to me. And others Asian aswell.

oh no i agree 100 percent they do have a very unique asian feel to the artifacts, but its not impossible that some cultures artifacts could be similar to anothers that they never made contact with, but very interesting post indeed

[cormac mac airt]

true but it bashes the christopher columbus factor, so i dont see it impossible for other cultures to have come here, ships were used all over, even egyptians

but is it a proven fact they were here, i am a little sold on your "evidence" but im the type that needs solid fact

The Egyptians never had true ocean-going vessels of their own, nor were they interested in such. And when one gets down to it the ancestors of the Native American Indians were the ones to discover America, beating out everyone else by more than 10,000 years.

cormac

[MrBene]

I don't know if chinese, but I do believe people from asia moved towards america at some point, not only north-america but also south-america.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

The Egyptians never had true ocean-going vessels of their own, nor were they interested in such. And when one gets down to it the ancestors of the Native American Indians were the ones to discover America, beating out everyone else by more than 10,000 years.

cormac

True. But lets be ignorants for a second a forget about natives. Im mean when someone ask Who discover America? No one thinks on those natives.

But in fact they help my thread. They just show that people from 10 000 BC onwards always stumble upon land mass, that is big, and happens to be called America.

[cormac mac airt]

You never seen China house in your city?

Kidding. Its not proven. Thats why I post it in alternative history and ancient mysteries. But they seemed Chinese to me. And others Asian aswell.

Not really surprising when one realizes that the ancestors of todays North, Central and South American Indians were of eastern/northeastern Asian origin to begin with. When one takes a good look at the variations in Indian groups in the Americas one doesn't need a "Chinese", "Japanese", "Polynesian" or some such explanation for something that is native to begin with.

cormac

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I don't know if chinese, but I do believe people from asia moved towards america at some point, not only north-america but also south-america.

Hi and welcome on UM! I guess this is first time I speak with Argentinian. Maradona or Messi? Kidding.

Yes thats what Im trying to kindly suggest here. America ,south and north.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Not really surprising when one realizes that the ancestors of todays North, Central and South American Indians were of eastern/northeastern Asian origin to begin with. When one takes a good look at the variations in Indian groups in the Americas one doesn't need a "Chinese", "Japanese", "Polynesian" or some such explanation for something that is native to begin with.

cormac

Did you look those beards, eyes,...then position how they sit....then we have dragon..what about that? Dragon didnt came with natives into America....Then we have strong link between Olmec script and Shang, Chinese.

Or perhaps they carried in their DNA same style. Same likeness. Sympathy toward art.

Edited August 2, 2013 by the L

[MrBene]

Well actually the dragon isn't the chinese dragon but Quetzalcoatl (snake with feathers). Which is the aztec name for one of their gods. Mayans had their own snake god called Kukulkna or Gukumatz, which means "feathered serpent".

According to them Gukumatz was a culture hero who taught the Toltecs, and later the Maya, the arts of civilization, including codes of law, agriculture, fishing and medicine. He came from an ocean, and eventually returned to it. According to Mayan legend, Gukumatz will return to the Earth during the End Times. He also represents the forces of good and evil, similar to the ying-yang paradigm of Oriental religions.

PS: Maradona all the way.

Edited August 2, 2013 by MrBene

[Big Bad Voodoo]

That was not Aztec but Macaracas. Also in 800 AD in area of Meso America-Monte Alban was in charge. Tula falls in year 1178 by Chichimecs which later become Aztecs.

There you go yin yang. Daoism is number one religion in China.

PS: I think Messi is Messiah.

Edited August 2, 2013 by the L

[darkmoonlady]

I thought this had been in some respects settled with the discovery of Chinese ballast stones off the California coast.

[cormac mac airt]

Did you look those beards, eyes,...then position how they sit....then we have dragon..what about that? Dragon didnt came with natives into America....Then we have strong link between Olmec script and Shang, Chinese.

Or perhaps they carried in their DNA same style. Same likeness. Sympathy toward art.

Did you know it's a stereotype that Native American Indians can't grow beards. While some don't others can and do.

Do you know for a fact that Native American Indians would consider that a dragon, in the Medieval European or Chinese understanding of the term? If not, the you're projecting what YOU think it is/looks like and not on what NA believed it to be.

Do you know the providence of the item on the left that claims to show Olmec script since it doesn't look anything like the following:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/87819815.html

cormac

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Did you know it's a stereotype that Native American Indians can't grow beards. While some don't others can and do.

Do you know for a fact that Native American Indians would consider that a dragon, in the Medieval European or Chinese understanding of the term? If not, the you're projecting what YOU think it is/looks like and not on what NA believed it to be.

Do you know the providence of the item on the left that claims to show Olmec script since it doesn't look anything like the following:

http://news.national...s/87819815.html

cormac

While that Flinstones tablet is interesting how does it debunk my item. And no I dont know nothing about that item. Perhaps they all were proto writings. Try outs.

Even sceptics thinks for tablet you provided that might be fake or that date isnt rignt. But sceptics as sceptics. I

Its not just beard. Pointed beard. They could cut their beards as dwarves from Lords of the Ring yet they made them pointed. Then look how they sit. On artifact of Maya, it have belt like those from martial arts.

About dragon. Ofcourse I look trough EU googles. What else I got? Im mean we must judge societies based on our known societies or anthropological societies we knew.

And to me it looks like Dragon. Chinise dragon to be exact.

[jaylemurph]

I see evidences not posobility.

As cormac points out, you see what you want to see.

Art is made within a series of conventions, and conventions are ways of culturally defining what art means and how it works. They are created because no art is truly life-like, so different cultures pick and choose what factors determine "realism" for them. Unless you are deeply familiar with the vast majority of the artistic conventions for a specific culture, you are in no position to say what peices of art "mean" or "what they look like".

I'm betting you haven't spent years learning the technicalities and specifics of Meso-American art, so what you "see" may not be teribly relevant to anyone else but you. It certainly isn't the obvious statement of an evident truth.

--Jaylemurph

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Then tell me, what does it look like to you?

And ofcourse, Im not expet in Mesoamerica or South america cultures.

[jaylemurph]

Then tell me, what does it look like to you?

And ofcourse, Im not expet in Mesoamerica or South america cultures.

It looks like Meso-American art to me. I'm no expert it in, either, so I'd be extremely hesitant to say anything more about it than that.

--Jaylemurph

[Harry_Dresden]

Its not illogical to suggest that other sea faring cultures like the Vikings and Chinese (or rather segments of these cultures) have had limited contact with the Pre-Columbian peoples of the America's.. but i think it would have been more accidental in nature than planned..

[Big Bad Voodoo]

To me they only need shurikens.

While we agree that we dont have experts here, although some members may have studied them in more extend, Im not willing to wait that expert shows up.

What about script?

Edited August 3, 2013 by the L

[Harte]

The "dragons" superficially resemble the Chinese version. Mainly in the facial areas.

However, IIRC, by that time there was a convention regarding the depiction of the claws of dragons (note the absence of claws in the pic, BTW.)

Only the house of the Emporer was allowed to display any dragon motif with five fingers/claws. Anyone else so doing would be executed.

Do you suppose the Emporer of China (or a member of his family) made the trip?

Harte

Edited August 3, 2013 by Harte