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danielost

Disrespect for those who deserve respect

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Beckys_Mom

I just wish anyone could do what they want.

I don't, if I did, it would be chaos....

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danielost

Beckiesmom. I said athiest and others. Your correc that some christians are also being disrespecable to our fallen heros. Although I don't know'if I would call them christian. Christians are supposed to have respect for everyone, whether they be living or dead or enemy.

I try to practice this my self, hence the reason for this thread dispite the fact that mormons don't use any holy symbols. Unless, you count the human body.

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DeWitz

It seems some residents in seattle are offended to being called citizen.

And the term brown bag was a racial slur. Me, I only know its meaning in I brought my lunch from home.

http://news.msn.com/...seattle-ponders

Thanks. Methinks Seattle's City Hall is pondering too much. . .

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Michelle

Don't forget "native". It's not PC to call yourself a native of an area anymore.

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DeWitz

I don't know what symbols you're referring to exactly, danielost, but I strongly doubt that all those soldiers died to uphold Christianity. In fact in WW1 there was only one nation involved that wasn't Christian (Ottoman empire), and in WW2 there were only 2 (Imperial Japan and the Soviet Union). Am I forgetting the war where the secularist hordes besieged the pious Christian soldiers on Crucifix Hill?

Frankly anyone who goes out of their way to get symbols removed from public is a busybody, plain and simple. Just because I may have common ground with someone like that in regards to atheism, does not mean I am on their side. The way I see it is this; I won't campaign to remove religious idols from public so long as the religious don't campaign to remove advertising with scantly clad women from public. Seems like a fair trade to me. :P

It's an important issue. Many people don't give it a thought. The use (for Americans) of at least two religious symbols on headstones (cross and Star of David) was common during and after World War 2. One can view many crosses, quite a few Stars of David and gravestones without symbols in the American cemetery in Normandy, France. Today there are many more options, although I'm not sure of the exact number. Wiccans and others fought long and hard for their recognition.The point was/is that religious symbols are allowed on grave markers in the US "governmental" (veterans') cemeteries. I believe--although I may not be correct--that the symbol attaching to the deceased's own faith/religion is accepted as the expression of the specific deceased person's beliefs, not as emblematic of a vague "Christianity" or other 'faith' for which he or she fought. For example, a Star of David--now or in 1944--doesn't indicate that the fallen one sacrificed his/her life for Israel; just as a cross doesn't mean they fought for Catholicism, Methodism or the Baptist faith. Simpler yet: The symbol indicates the faith with which they fought, not the ideology or belief for which they died.

So this begs the question--Why is the right to have one's faith symbol emblazoned upon one's marker in death an issue? The answer is--it isn't. Hundreds of thousands of Axis, Allied (including "atheistic" Soviet) soldiers had their graves marked with some variation of the Christian cross, under presumptuous circumstances many times. In the contemporary US, both public (Veterans', governmental) and private (Catholic, Protestant and non-denominational/secular) cemeteries do not censor religious symbolism from gravestones (the stones, by the way, are private property--perhaps offensive language might not be permitted, but references to faith positions are not). I know this because I have attended burials of many people, including soldiers with various symbols, in public cemeteries as well as private citizens/civilians with/without such symbols in Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and private graveyards.

One quibble: Symbols are not "idols."

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Beckys_Mom

Beckiesmom. I said athiest and others. Your correc that some christians are also being disrespecable to our fallen heros. Although I don't know'if I would call them christian. Christians are supposed to have respect for everyone, whether they be living or dead or enemy.

I try to practice this my self, hence the reason for this thread dispite the fact that mormons don't use any holy symbols. Unless, you count the human body.

Yes the WBC call themselves Christians, ( even though they have a weird way of showing it ) and they will likely continue showing their disrespect at funerals of soldiers and so on..

What I want to say here is - If you take away a persons rights to protest ( The atheists you speak of ) And if you were to remove the rights of the WBC with their disrespect of soldier funerals.Question is - .What do you think will happen when you remove them from those rights?

You should understand this one Daniel, for lately you have constantly went on about rights,so can you imagine what it would lead to?

*Make note* - In no way am I suggesting these atheists are right, ( hardly likely ) nor am I suggesting the WBC are right ( unless I lost my mind ) I am just wondering what would happen if rights were removed?

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Beckys_Mom

Don't forget "native". It's not PC to call yourself a native of an area anymore.

Every time I hear something that is no longer PC, it sickens me... Political correctness is a joke ! There was a time when you were more free to say what you liked... It will get to a time where If I wished you a Merry Christmas, some jerk will report me for being offensive... It's a load of backward garbage... Excuse my French !

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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danielost

I am not saying take away anyone's rights. I am saying exercise your rights respectably.

Those crosses that they used to put up on the freeway where someone was killed in an accident had two purposes. 1: to honor the loved one. 2: to remind others to be more careful while driving. The government had to take them down, because someone cried about them being there.

Edited by danielost

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DecoNoir

Yes the WBC call themselves Christians, ( even though they have a weird way of showing it ) and they will likely continue showing their disrespect at funerals of soldiers and so on..

What I want to say here is - If you take away a persons rights to protest ( The atheists you speak of ) And if you were to remove the rights of the WBC with their disrespect of soldier funerals.Question is - .What do you think will happen when you remove them from those rights?

You should understand this one Daniel, for lately you have constantly went on about rights,so can you imagine what it would lead to?

*Make note* - In no way am I suggesting these atheists are right, ( hardly likely ) nor am I suggesting the WBC are right ( unless I lost my mind ) I am just wondering what would happen if rights were removed?

Hopefully we never do come to that point. I would see it as much more likely these groups will p*** off the wrong group in the wrong area and... well we'll all probably be debating on gun laws the next day.

I know I shouldn't look forward to that day but... I can't help it. For that matter, whatever ends up on those tombstones probably won't last the night.

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ShadowSot

No, it is not the way you say it. I have been told I should do my worship only n my home away from my children(I don't have kids).

Didn't your Jesus say something about praying only in the privacy in your own home and not in the streets?

These monuments are to the men and women whi died for you to tell us to remove that cross or not put that star of david on a monument to those who died in the holocaust.

We only want them removed from state owned land. Public land, a church or something, is fine. And that Federal dollars are not used in it.

Seattle this week ordered ts employees not to use tge word citizen, because it might upset someone.

Yeah, the PC stuff annoys the heck out of me too.

The constitution does not say seperation of state and religion. It says congresss shall make any laws to establish a state religion or the freedom to worship any religion. Which is exactly what the liberal courts are doing.

No, putting Christian monuments on public land is tacit support for Christianity.

Removing them so Christianity isn't given any favor over another is making the field equal. it's either that or open them up to all religions and faiths, but I'd prefer none to be there myself.

And no, it doesn't appear in the Constitution, it appears in a letter from Thomas Jefferson on the intent of the First Amendment, and that has been how the courts have treated it. It's important to note that's also how the first few presidents treated it as well, such as Madison.

Unless it is a government cemetary. Then you will want to remove that cross or star of david.

Flatly wrong, the lawsuits were to make it so atheists, Jews, Wiccans, and others could have their own symbols put on their graves instead of the Christian cross that was being assigned to everyone.

So they may be on public land, but the are private property.

And are used by Christians to support the notion that the US was founded as a Christian nation. They should be removed to stop that confusion.

While we're at it, I'd prefer that the motto went back to "E Pluribus Unum," but I doubt that'll happen in my lifetime.

The moment an atheist creates a monument that atheist ceases to be secular. Same to those who want to spread atheism. There is so much irony in militant atheism.

Not true. I don't know what else to say to that.

Now look, I'm not saying when someone calls foul for a Christian symbol they are always right, but by the same token you can try to claim that the Constitution allows for religious symbols to be placed on public land.

That particular bit of PC bull****he bothers me when most others do not. A couple of years ago I was in a LOWES buying some items and when I wished the clerk Merry Christmas she said "happy holidays". In the southeast that hasn't been so traditional and later I learned that she did so due to a POLICY by the management. They didn't want to offend the secular crowd.

Or Jews. Or Muslims. Or any other religious group.

My point is simply to do as you like but don't ram it down my throat when I'm trying to relax and enjoy what WAS the most peaceful time of year.

I'll remember to try not to offend the Christians as I watch the Christmas day parade, the months long Christmas celebrations, the Christmas parades, the manger scenes outside of courthouses, ect.

Really, who's ramming who's beliefs?

Edited by ShadowSot
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ShadowSot

I am not saying take away anyone's rights. I am saying exercise your rights respectably.

Really? It sounds to me like you're trying to tell anyone who's not a Christian to sit down and shut up.

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Kowalski

What is the big frickin deal about having a cross on the side of the road?? Like, seriously?? :no:

If you don't like it, don't look at it....

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Beckys_Mom

I am not saying take away anyone's rights. I am saying exercise your rights respectably.

Those crosses that they used to put up on the freeway where someone was killed in an accident had two purposes. 1: to honor the loved one. 2: to remind others to be more careful while driving. The government had to take them down, because someone cried about them being there.

It's a shame these things happen, but if you remove their rights to act and protest, it leads to a slippery slope, unfortunately..

PS...You don't need a cross on the road to remind you to drive carefully, you should always know this with or without a cross.. Its common sense really ..!

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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F3SS

It is true Shadow.

What are atheists erecting a monument to? Well, it's got to be something and all religions erect monuments.

Why are there atheists trying to spread the word? Via billboards, public displays and generally spreading the word.

But what word? Atheism is not a belief and is not a way of life and has nothing to practice. Atheists share nothing in common except for a general disbelief in deities.

When a group of people begin to erect monuments and public displays and try to garner a following it begins to cross the line of religion. Real atheists are not to be bothered by any religion. They are not supposed to care one way or the other. I know real atheists and the last thing they care to do is stick their nose in religion at all. They'll discuss what they think of religion if asked or prompted to but never go out of their way to be offended by it or tell someone else they shouldn't believe just because they don't. And also, the could give a rats ass about Manger Scenes, crosses on the highway or people saying Merry Christmas instead of the retarded 'happy holidays.' Christmas as we know it is as American as apple pie and anyone who gets offended by hearing it or seeing it seriously needs a hobby. Those types of atheists are the fun police and have nothing better to do than stick their nose in everyone else's good time to ruin it.

Real atheists have better things to do like ignore religion and have a life. Making mountains out of mole hills by suing every county with a cross on the highway or a cross near the borough building is just looking for fights because those things aren't some gigantic influence that people can't resist. They might be religious symbols but they are also embedded in American culture and should just be left alone. Nobody cared until these atheists on a mission showed up and still no one cares but them. Hmm, who else goes on missions?

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Beckys_Mom

What is the big frickin deal about having a cross on the side of the road?? Like, seriously?? :no:

If you don't like it, don't look at it....

True, but people from other religions like IE Islam, might think it's offensive.... Thing is, I personally feel that liberals are responsible, they think by letting so much go on, they forget about the Christians and they focus on others.. It is absurd, but I personally feel that's how it goes...

I live in a Christian country, and even though I no longer follow Christianity, I will be damned if I will stop saying things like - Merry Christmas and bless you if you sneeze. and oh my lord, if I see something totally daft or scary lol :P

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F3SS

It's a shame these things happen, but if you remove their rights to act and protest, it leads to a slippery slope, unfortunately..

PS...You don't need a cross on the road to remind you to drive carefully, you should always know this with or without a cross.. Its common sense really ..!

No, but if someone you know is killed on the road it is not uncommon for friends and family to place a cross there sometimes with their name and flowers. Anyone screaming to have that removed, well, what aholes. It is a part of our culture. Progressives, far left liberals and militant atheists go on patrols to find something to be offended by and sht on it. Removing America's past traditions is part of their mission.

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Beckys_Mom

Hopefully we never do come to that point. I would see it as much more likely these groups will p*** off the wrong group in the wrong area and... well we'll all probably be debating on gun laws the next day.

I know I shouldn't look forward to that day but... I can't help it. For that matter, whatever ends up on those tombstones probably won't last the night.

You could be right, they could cheese off the wrong group and get hurt in the process.. They will have themselves to blame...

No, but if someone you know is killed on the road it is not uncommon for friends and family to place a cross there sometimes with their name and flowers. Anyone screaming to have that removed, well, what aholes. It is a part of our culture. Progressives, far left liberals and militant atheists go on patrols to find something to be offended by and sht on it. Removing America's past traditions is part of their mission.

EDIT - I already know this F3SS... Do you think I am for removal of the cross?

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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F3SS

You could be right, they could cheese off the wrong group and get hurt in the process.. They will have themselves to blame...

EDIT - I already know this F3SS... Do you think I am for removal of the cross?

Easy Mom, I don't think we've had this discussion before but I was sure you weren't. You just said something that prompted me to say something. I wasn't digging at you.

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danielost

Really? It sounds to me like you're trying to tell anyone who's not a Christian to sit down and shut up.

I am not the one who brought christians into this thread.

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Michelle

True, but people from other religions like IE Islam, might think it's offensive.... Thing is, I personally feel that liberals are responsible, they think by letting so much go on, they forget about the Christians and they focus on others.. It is absurd, but I personally feel that's how it goes...

I live in a Christian country, and even though I no longer follow Christianity, I will be damned if I will stop saying things like - Merry Christmas and bless you if you sneeze. and oh my lord, if I see something totally daft or scary lol :P

Heaven forbid. :P

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danielost

It's a shame these things happen, but if you remove their rights to act and protest, it leads to a slippery slope, unfortunately..

PS...You don't need a cross on the road to remind you to drive carefully, you should always know this with or without a cross.. Its common sense really ..!

A little reminder does not hurt. Not saying remove their rights to act or protest. But what about a parents rigt to stick a cross on the side of a road in memory of her three year old child. As it stands right now her rights have been taken from her because someone didn't like it.

What about the rights of a community to erect a monument to those brave souls from that comunity who have died in wars.

That is what is being removed here. Not, the atheist right to protest. Why are the courts removing a community's or parents right to say thank you and we miss you.

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Beckys_Mom

Heaven forbid. :P

:lol: @ Heaven forbid

Over here, some of the Irish ( Mostly those in County Tyrone where I am from ) say to anyone if they feel you are telling a lie, they say - God forgive ya, you are telling lies... OR If they happen to be an angry parent, the kid does something wrong you will hear - Heaven help you if you dare leave the house, now get to your room... Another - Jesus, Mary and St Joseph what have you done this time? ...They just say these things and never care to think... lol

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Beckys_Mom

A little reminder does not hurt. Not saying remove their rights to act or protest. But what about a parents rigt to stick a cross on the side of a road in memory of her three year old child. As it stands right now her rights have been taken from her because someone didn't like it.

That's liberals for you, "To heck with you Christians, and hello everyone else, especially if you are from another faith that is not Christianity "... Backward thinking? Yea I think so... but its a mess..... If I had to take a stand for people in my own country, I will stand on the Christian side, but only IF the worst should take place..........It's best to stick with the devil I know lol :P

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Michelle

:lol: @ Heaven forbid

Over here, some of the Irish ( Mostly those in County Tyrone where I am from ) say to anyone if they feel you are telling a lie, they say - God forgive ya, you are telling lies... OR If they happen to be an angry parent, the kid does something wrong you will hear - Heaven help you if you dare leave the house, now get to your room... Another - Jesus, Mary and St Joseph what have you done this time? ...They just say these things and never care to think... lol

Here in the South, you can say just about anything about someone and add bless their heart so it's not really an insult...like they can't help it if they're ignorant, bless their heart. :whistle:

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GoldenWolf

What is the big frickin deal about having a cross on the side of the road?? Like, seriously?? :no:

If you don't like it, don't look at it....

It's like a country or a state and a flag, would you find if offensive if you are driving down one of your Texas roads, and on the side of the road, there is a flag for the state of Maine, or China perhaps?

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