Ghosts Caught on Tape during 2011 Tsunami

[DecoNoir]

We need to think a bit laterally here Kipperphoenix. There is no "regular night heron with a mysterious glowing body" in the known animal kingdom, is there? It isn't a recognized animal. There is room to suggest that it isn't a regular bird, but something that has evolved to fill the same role/niche as a 'night heron'. There's room to suggest that it shares a common ancestor with the assumed luminous ray-like entity in the tsunami video. Both creatures could be very similar in that they both hunt fish, both can swim underwater, both can fly out of water. But one is more ray-like whilst the other is more heron-like. Both glow. Both evolved in early jungled Antarctica. See what I mean?

Ok, what would make you assume a clearly avian creature would share a common ancestor with you theoretical bioluminescent fly fish? Even further to suggest that is swims underwater?

[NatureBoff]

Ok, what would make you assume a clearly avian creature ..

No, no. You need to try harder. The "luminescent night heron" is assumed to be avian, but in reality could be something new which just resembles something avian. The clue is that there is no known avian that is luminous in the animal kingdom.

[Skep B]

White w/ light reflecting off of it can appear luminous, however

[DecoNoir]

No, no. You need to try harder. The "luminescent night heron" is assumed to be avian, but in reality could be something new which just resembles something avian. The clue is that there is no known avian that is luminous in the animal kingdom.

Well if that's the case then you need to explain the evolutionary course of your theoretical animal. Because frankly I'm not seeing anything that remotely fits in with documented species. It's simply too much going on: flight, bioluminescence, and under water swimming, how has such an adaptable creature not thrived and been sited more?

[NatureBoff]

White w/ light reflecting off of it can appear luminous, however

Good point. Highly reflective night birds are still not known in the animal kingdom. It suggests something new.

[NatureBoff]

Well if that's the case then you need to explain the evolutionary course of your theoretical animal. Because frankly I'm not seeing anything that remotely fits in with documented species. It's simply too much going on: flight, bioluminescence, and under water swimming, how has such an adaptable creature not thrived and been sited more?

Remember that I mentioned early jungled Antarctica as a likely scenario? Bioluminescence and high reflectivity could be a special common feature of this early environment. Corals evolved bioluminescence to protect themselves from harmful UV light. The ozone hole over the south pole could have increased this UV problem encouraging evolution to find a similar solution. Also, viruses are known to transfer genetic material to a particular species. The probabilities and possibilities are near endless.

[Skep B]

Good point. Highly reflective night birds are still not known in the animal kingdom. It suggests something new.

doesn't necessarily have to be a night bird, could've been startled and just took off, possibly by the light that's making it look glowy

[DecoNoir]

Remember that I mentioned early jungled Antarctica as a likely scenario? Bioluminescence and high reflectivity could be a special common feature of this early environment. Corals evolved bioluminescence to protect themselves from harmful UV light. The ozone hole over the south pole could have increased this UV problem encouraging evolution to find a similar solution. Also, viruses are known to transfer genetic material to a particular species. The probabilities and possibilities are near endless.

Do you have evidence to suggest the ozone hole was around then? Because Antarctica has been frozen over for about 34 million years, and while I do have to read further, I believe the jungles were along the coast, the current ozone hole in concentrated over the magnetic southern pole.

Without that reason, bioluminescense would be a handicap for a jungle predator.

Also, viruses transfer genetic material to specific cells in specific species because their protien shells fit the protiens of those particular cells. Also, the transfer of said genetic material merely hijacks the host cells protien production to produce more of the virus. Its astronomically doubtful that a being would holdover enough genetic material to gain bioluminescence, assuming said viruses contain said genetics, which I've not heard of.

[NatureBoff]

Do you have evidence to suggest the ozone hole was around then? Because Antarctica has been frozen over for about 34 million years, and while I do have to read further, I believe the jungles were along the coast, the current ozone hole in concentrated over the magnetic southern pole.

Without that reason, bioluminescense would be a handicap for a jungle predator.

Also, viruses transfer genetic material to specific cells in specific species because their protien shells fit the protiens of those particular cells. Also, the transfer of said genetic material merely hijacks the host cells protien production to produce more of the virus. Its astronomically doubtful that a being would holdover enough genetic material to gain bioluminescence, assuming said viruses contain said genetics, which I've not heard of.

We don't actually know that the theory of continental drift is valid. There's no known mechanism to give irregular plate movement. Mountain building doesn't make sense because the ultra-slow plate drift and collision would cause such a slow uplift that natural weathering would never allow mountains to form in the first place.

This opens up a whole new possible mechanism for the formation of Antarctica's mountain ranges, which are the highest in the world if I remember correctly.

I remember seeing a program on early Antarctica and it was assumed to be totally ice cap free, with relatively 'primitive' dino species due to slow evolution due to the demanding environment.

I'm guessing that the polar ozone holes are due to the magnetic field channeling the solar wind into a concentrated region, and would have always existed to some extent.(?)

Remember that the high polar regions have 6 months of darkness and 6 months of low sunlight. High reflectivity and bioluminesence would be a huge advantage analogous to the deep sea creatures.

I had an in depth on-line dialogue with Frank Ryan years ago, a book author on genetic viral transfer and from memory believe that just about anything is possible. The book is called Virolution (highly recommended).

The extraordinary role of viruses in evolution and how this is revolutionising biology and medicine.

Darwin's theory of evolution is still the greatest breakthrough in biological science. His explanation of the role of natural selection in driving the evolution of life on earth depended on steady variation of living things over time – but he was unable to explain how this variation occurred. In the 150 years since publication of the Origin of Species, we have discovered three main sources for this variation – mutation, hybridisation and epigenetics. Then on Sunday, 12th February, 2001 the evidence for perhaps the most extraordinary cause of variation was simultaneously released by two organisations – the code for the entire human genome. Not only was the human genome unbelievably simple (it is only ten times more complicated than a bacteria), but embedded in the code were large fragments that were derived from viruses – fragments that were vital to evolution of all organisms and the evidence for a fourth and vital source of variation – viruses.

Edited August 18, 2013 by NatureBoff

[DecoNoir]

We don't actually know that the theory of continental drift is valid. There's no known mechanism to give irregular plate movement. Mountain building doesn't make sense because the ultra-slow plate drift and collision would cause such a slow uplift that natural weathering would never allow mountains to form in the first place.

This opens up a whole new possible mechanism for the formation of Antarctica's mountain ranges, which are the highest in the world if I remember correctly.

I remember seeing a program on early Antarctica and it was assumed to be totally ice cap free, with relatively 'primitive' dino species due to slow evolution due to the demanding environment.

I'm guessing that the polar ozone holes are due to the magnetic field channeling the solar wind into a concentrated region, and would have always existed to some extent.(?)

Remember that the high polar regions have 6 months of darkness and 6 months of low sunlight. High reflectivity and bioluminesence would be a huge advantage analogous to the deep sea creatures.

I had an in depth on-line dialogue with Frank Ryan years ago, a book author on genetic viral transfer and from memory believe that just about anything is possible. I could be wrong.

The mechanism for continental drift is pretty well understood. Its been awhile since I've had to brush up on middle school geology, but no time like the present! As for mountian building, I don't quite understand how you can be confused by the process. The large mountian ranges that we know of, such as the Alps and the Himalayas are built of very dense materials, very much capable of withstanding erosion for eons. Also, how would you explain the fossilized sea shells found near its summit?

On that note, how can a jungle form on a landmass that wasn't in the tropics? Thick rain forest need direct sunlight and moisture to thrive, hence why all the rainforest of the world are concentrated along the equator.

On another note, during polar night, the large majority of animals in the region either go into some form of low activity (hibernation) or migrate. A highflying ray would be hard pressed to find the energy to support itself, and the few creatures inhabiting the region would saving as much energy as possible to investigate an odd glowing light.

[NatureBoff]

But in the beginning it assumed that no mountains existed at all. The Himalayas are thought to be formed from the drift of the Indian plate which caused uplift. What speed would the plate need to move to cause uplift quick enough to overcome natural erosion? More than a few centimeters a year I would have thought. Fossilized sea shells at the summit suggest high energy impacts which ejected entire layers of sedimentary seabeds.

Maybe Antarctica hasn't been over the south pole all it's life. I have a hypothesis that it was on the equator and the whole earth slowly rotated 90 degrees after the formation of the moon. The impact crater is the north polar basin and the exit ejecta formed the moon and the Antarctic mountain ranges. This is on the lines of Hapgood theory.

It's not a high-flying ray, but a low-flying ray.

P.S. I just thought of this: ‘Ningen’ humanoid sea creatures of the Antarctic which are pure white and reflective.

Nice chatting to you but I'm off for a few beers and watching Dragon's Den.

[DecoNoir]

Oh, I'll be waiting, but for other readers:

But in the beginning it assumed that no mountains existed at all. The Himalayas are thought to be formed from the drift of the Indian plate which caused uplift. What speed would the plate need to move to cause uplift quick enough to overcome natural erosion? More than a few centimeters a year I would have thought. Fossilized sea shells at the summit suggest high energy impacts which ejected entire layers of sedimentary seabeds.

Maybe Antarctica hasn't been over the south pole all it's life. I have a hypothesis that it was on the equator and the whole earth slowly rotated 90 degrees after the formation of the moon. The impact crater is the north polar basin and the exit ejecta formed the moon and the Antarctic mountain ranges. This is on the lines of Hapgood theory.

It's not a high-flying ray, but a low-flying ray.

P.S. I just thought of this: ‘Ningen’ humanoid sea creatures of the Antarctic which are pure white and reflective.

Nice chatting to you but I'm off for a few beers and watching Dragon's Den.

Ok, first off: the Himalayas are formed by collision between the Indian plate and the Asian plate. We know the Himalayas are measurably growing by a few millimeters every year. These mountians are made of oceanic limeston, very dense stuff. Any lightee materials have already eroded away long ago. Also, these fossils are very, very old, and ere long embeded beneath "newer" seabed. Hence why they were fossilized.

On your next point- an impact that would have tilted the Earth 45 degrees it would certainly killed everything on the surface of the Earth. Remeber how a far lesser impact killed the dinosaurs? Or the impact that triggered the Permian mass extinction? So to suggest that a major impact like that occured that recently, and somehow left the Earth largely intact is ludicrous.

Last point- You couldn't buy the flying squid (which turns out to be a sizable food source in Asia) but you can buy what is in essence a mermaid? For someone who went on about spotting hoaxes, I'm surprised that the fact the provided videos where a) seconds long extremely lo resolutio and c) extremely low activity, didn't have you screaming "Fake" at the monitor!

[NatureBoff]

Ok, first off: the Himalayas are formed by collision between the Indian plate and the Asian plate. We know the Himalayas are measurably growing by a few millimeters every year. These mountians are made of oceanic limeston, very dense stuff. Any lightee materials have already eroded away long ago. Also, these fossils are very, very old, and ere long embeded beneath "newer" seabed. Hence why they were fossilized.

Continental drift has known mechanism which provides irregular movement necessary to fit with geological evidence. This is a FACT. I saw a scientific program on it. You are just ignoring this and continuing with your own dialogue.

On your next point- an impact that would have tilted the Earth 45 degrees it would certainly killed everything on the surface of the Earth. Remeber how a far lesser impact killed the dinosaurs? Or the impact that triggered the Permian mass extinction? So to suggest that a major impact like that occured that recently, and somehow left the Earth largely intact is ludicrous.

No, not ludicrous, because I'm suggesting that the impactor is fluid neutron matter from a

neutron star/magnetar 'supernovae'.

Last point- You couldn't buy the flying squid (which turns out to be a sizable food source in Asia) but you can buy what is in essence a mermaid? For someone who went on about spotting hoaxes, I'm surprised that the fact the provided videos where a) seconds long extremely lo resolutio and c) extremely low activity, didn't have you screaming "Fake" at the monitor!

Not a mermaid, but something big, white and unknown swimming in Antarctic waters. I'm open to this idea without having explored the details in any great depth.

[DecoNoir]

Continental drift has known mechanism which provides irregular movement necessary to fit with geological evidence. This is a FACT. I saw a scientific program on it. You are just ignoring this and continuing with your own dialogue.

No, not ludicrous, because I'm suggesting that the impactor is fluid neutron matter from a

neutron star/magnetar 'supernovae'.

Not a mermaid, but something big, white and unknown swimming in Antarctic waters. I'm open to this idea without having explored the details in any great depth.

Such a near Earth supernova event would have, among other things, would have destroyed the ozone layer wiping out a large portion of life on Earth. In fact, this is a proposed theory for the Ordovician-Silurian extinction

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordovician%E2%80%93Silurian_extinction

As for your neutron star fluid impact. Such matter only exists in the core of neutron stars. The gravitational forces exhibited by neutron stars prohibits such matter being emitted. The only thing found comng from a neutron star is the electromagnetic radiaton emitted by pulsars.

In regards to your claims oregarding continental drift, could you point out said documentary that claims the mechanism is insufficient to shift the tectonic plates? This is the first time I've heard such a claim.

As for the possibility of a large white creature in Antarctic waters, I can potentially see a large cetacean cruising down there. Perhaps something similar to the baluga of the Arctic circle. However, for such a creature to contain enough mass to keep enough energy to live and be able to fly, consistently and with control, is far fetched from a biological standpoint.

[Kipperphoenix]

We need to think a bit laterally here Kipperphoenix. There is no "regular night heron with a mysterious glowing body" in the known animal kingdom, is there? It isn't a recognized animal. There is room to suggest that it isn't a regular bird, but something that has evolved to fill the same role/niche as a 'night heron'. There's room to suggest that it shares a common ancestor with the assumed luminous ray-like entity in the tsunami video. Both creatures could be very similar in that they both hunt fish, both can swim underwater, both can fly out of water. But one is more ray-like whilst the other is more heron-like. Both glow. Both evolved in early jungled Antarctica. See what I mean?

You're using Japanese mythology to argue what is real and what isn't. I don't think I'm the one who needs to think logically here.

[NatureBoff]

You're using Japanese mythology to argue what is real and what isn't. I don't think I'm the one who needs to think logically here.

That's coming from someone who believes in ghosts. I believe in bizarre animals that we're not yet aware of that get mistaken for ghosts. My worldview is a lot more scientific than your own one is, believe it or not.

[DecoNoir]

That's coming from someone who believes in ghosts. I believe in bizarre animals that we're not yet aware of that get mistaken for ghosts. My worldview is a lot more scientific than your own one is, believe it or not.

Well, that might be stretching it a bit. Considering your grasp of geologic timescale and evolutionary biology, I'd highly doubt most people would consider fringe theory much better than the supernatural.

[NatureBoff]

Such a near Earth supernova event would have, among other things, would have destroyed the ozone layer wiping out a large portion of life on Earth. In fact, this is a proposed theory for the Ordovician-Silurian extinction...As for your neutron star fluid impact. Such matter only exists in the core of neutron stars...

(i) The link you provided doesn't mention a possible cause for this O-S extinction event.

(ii) A neutron star/neutron star collision could have sent exotic matter debris on a collision course with our solar system. It wouldn't have to have been particularly "near Earth". A mass extinction event is quite probable if directed at the solar system. Kilonova: Dead-Star Crashes May Spark Mysterious Cosmic Explosions

In regards to your claims regarding continental drift, could you point out said documentary that claims the mechanism is insufficient to shift the tectonic plates? This is the first time I've heard such a claim.

I'm glad you're interested. I can't remember the title of the documentary unfortunately, but I remember the scientist saying that they expected irregular convection cell movement but didn't get it. It was a more complicated version of Rayleigh–Bénard convection. I think they were putting in the spin of the planet as well, but it still produced regular hexagon patterns (or something like that).

As for the possibility of a large white creature in Antarctic waters, I can potentially see a large cetacean cruising down there. Perhaps something similar to the baluga of the Arctic circle.

Okay, this bit is the best line you've written so far.

However, for such a creature to contain enough mass to keep enough energy to live and be able to fly, consistently and with control, is far fetched from a biological standpoint.

I didn't say I expected it to fly nor anyone else. The Ningen isn't a cryptid that is theorized to fly is it?

[Kipperphoenix]

That's coming from someone who believes in ghosts. I believe in bizarre animals that we're not yet aware of that get mistaken for ghosts. My worldview is a lot more scientific than your own one is, believe it or not.

When did I say I believe in ghosts?

[DecoNoir]

(i) The link you provided doesn't mention a possible cause for this O-S extinction event.

(ii) A neutron star/neutron star collision could have sent exotic matter debris on a collision course with our solar system. It wouldn't have to have been particularly "near Earth". A mass extinction event is quite probable if directed at the solar system. Kilonova: Dead-Star Crashes May Spark Mysterious Cosmic Explosions

I'm glad you're interested. I can't remember the title of the documentary unfortunately, but I remember the scientist saying that they expected irregular convection cell movement but didn't get it. It was a more complicated version of Rayleigh–Bénard convection. I think they were putting in the spin of the planet as well, but it still produced regular hexagon patterns (or something like that).

Okay, this bit is the best line you've written so far.

I didn't say I expected it to fly nor anyone else. The Ningen isn't a cryptid that is theorized to fly is it?

I will take a look at your link, though I will admit I find the current plate tectonics theory more than satisfactory. Especially as I live not more than 75 miles from the San Andreas fault line, and about 1 mile from the smaller Elsinore fault, and I can say from experience that those b******* move and let us know when they do.

In regards to your mystery creature, I was under the impression that your biolumenescent ray was your explanation for the things seen in the tsunami footage? However you state that your creature does not fly? I'm confused here as to whether your discussing one or multiple species.

I will add that I found the footage of the supposed Ningen to be pretty consistent with a poorly done hoax. Poor resolution to hide a low detail model, a very much inactive subject, and a short running time to cut down on the number of frames said madel needs to be inserted.

The idea is nice, the execution flawed.

[NatureBoff]

When did I say I believe in ghosts?

Here in this thread Hairy Humanoid On Night Cam During Ghost Hunt, post#2

Posted Yesterday, 11:53 AM

I think the reason the camera doesn't pick it up is because it's a ghost. Though I can see why one might think it's a humanoid creature. Of the two, I'd personally say this should be seen as a ghost video. But i do think it could easily be one of the crew members in dark clothing and the camera can't pick them up. I could be wrong though.

[NatureBoff]

I will take a look at your link, though I will admit I find the current plate tectonics theory more than satisfactory. Especially as I live not more than 75 miles from the San Andreas fault line, and about 1 mile from the smaller Elsinore fault, and I can say from experience that those b******* move and let us know when they do.

I'm not saying that the plates don't move, just that don't drift in the way envisioned to create mountain ranges and move continents across the globe. Some additional irregular force is required for these kind of events.

In regards to your mystery creature, I was under the impression that your biolumenescent ray was your explanation for the things seen in the tsunami footage?

Yes

However you state that your creature does not fly? I'm confused here as to whether your discussing one or multiple species.

Your previous post was confusing. You mentioned "beluga" type cetaceans and then went on to talk about flying.

I will add that I found the footage of the supposed Ningen to be pretty consistent with a poorly done hoax. Poor resolution to hide a low detail model, a very much inactive subject, and a short running time to cut down on the number of frames said madel needs to be inserted.

There's more than one photo and encounter as far as I'm aware. Like I said, I haven't even read it yet, but the white and reflective part, beluga-like, caught my attention which is why I suddenly remembered it. Maybe there's a hoax in there too, as people tend to do, but that doesn't mean there isn't some substance to the initial claims.

[Kipperphoenix]

Here in this thread Hairy Humanoid On Night Cam During Ghost Hunt, post#2

Maybe I didn't specify it well enough, but I don't think that's a ghost in that video. I believe it to be one of the crew members. The reason I said "I think the reason the camera won't pick it up is because it's a ghost." is not because I actually think it's a ghost, but because the clip is from "Ghost Hunters". Clearly the crew members were detected by the cameras, but the figure wasn't. So what does that mean? It means the figure is a ghost, or at least, that's what they want us to think since it is a show about ghosts. And unless I specifically say "I believe in ghosts", then I don't believe in them. I'm honestly on the fence on whether I believe in ghosts or not, but I'm leaning more towards being a skeptic. There have been, however, some pieces of evidence/witness testimonies where I do actually believe that it could be an actual ghost/spirit.

[NatureBoff]

Maybe I didn't specify it well enough, but I don't think that's a ghost in that video. I believe it to be one of the crew members. The reason I said "I think the reason the camera won't pick it up is because it's a ghost." is not because I actually think it's a ghost, but because the clip is from "Ghost Hunters". Clearly the crew members were detected by the cameras, but the figure wasn't. So what does that mean? It means the figure is a ghost, or at least, that's what they want us to think since it is a show about ghosts. And unless I specifically say "I believe in ghosts", then I don't believe in them. I'm honestly on the fence on whether I believe in ghosts or not, but I'm leaning more towards being a skeptic. There have been, however, some pieces of evidence/witness testimonies where I do actually believe that it could be an actual ghost/spirit.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. You're "on the fence" about it, which is fair enough.

[DecoNoir]

I'm not saying that the plates don't move, just that don't drift in the way envisioned to create mountain ranges and move continents across the globe. Some additional irregular force is required for these kind of events.

Yes Your previous post was confusing. You mentioned "beluga" type cetaceans and then went on to talk about flying. There's more than one photo and encounter as far as I'm aware. Like I said, I haven't even read it yet, but the white and reflective part, beluga-like, caught my attention which is why I suddenly remembered it. Maybe there's a hoax in there too, as people tend to do, but that doesn't mean there isn't some substance to the initial claims.

To start with my baluga post- I simply stated my belief that it is possible, though not necessarily likely, that a small beluga like ceteacan species can exsist down there, or maybe there's a prevailance of albinism in the whale population. This was my explanaition for the Ningen, which I thought you were proposing as your theoretical ray.

As for the convecction current plate tectonics. This is what I believe, and what is still taught ischools as far as I know (I graduated in 2010, so I'm fairly up to snuff with what's taught). Given the heat generated by the core and the viscosity of molten rock (and its theorized that lunar tidal forces may play a small roll) along with the measured movement along the fault lines, and the observed growth of the Himalayas, I find the current theory satisfactory. The changing coastlines of the continents can be attributed to oceanic erosion.