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granpa

Atlantis = Niflheim

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granpa

http://en.wikipedia...._Serpent_(deity)

The Feathered Serpent was a prominent supernatural entity or deity, found in many Mesoamerican religions. It was called Quetzalcoatl among the Aztecs, Kukulkan among the Yucatec Maya, and Q'uq'umatz and Tohil among the K'iche' Maya. The double symbolism used in its name is considered allegoric to the dual nature of the deity, where being feathered represents its divine nature or ability to fly to reach the skies and being a serpent represents its human nature or ability to creep on the ground among other animals of the Earth, a dualism very common in Mesoamerican deities

From the void that was the rest of the universe, the first god, Ometeotl, created itself. Ometeotl was both male and female, good and evil, light and darkness, fire and water, judgment and forgiveness, the god of duality. Ometeotl gave birth to four children, the four Tezcatlipocas, who each preside over one of the four cardinal directions. Over the West presides the White Tezcatlipoca, Quetzalcoatl, the god of light, mercy and wind. Over the South presides the Blue Tezcatlipoca, Huitzilopochtli, the god of war. Over the East presides the Red Tezcatlipoca, Xipe Totec, the god of gold, farming and Spring time. And over the North presides the Black Tezcatlipoca, known by no other name than Tezcatlipoca, the god of judgment, night, deceit, sorcery and the Earth. [3]

It was these four gods who eventually created all the other gods and the world we know today, but before they could create they had to destroy, for every time they attempted to create something, it would fall into the water beneath them and be eaten by Cipactli, the giant earth crocodile, who swam through the water with mouths at every one of her joints. The four Tezcatlipocas descended the first people who were giants. They created the other gods, the most important of whom were the water gods: Tlaloc, the god of rain and fertility and Chalchiuhtlicue, the goddess of lakes, rivers and oceans, also the goddess of beauty. To give light, they needed a god to become the sun and the Black Tezcatlipoca was chosen, but either because he had lost a leg or because he was god of the night, he only managed to become half a sun. The world continued on in this way for some time, but a sibling rivalry grew between Quetzalcoatl and his brother the mighty sun, who Quetzalcoatl knocked from the sky with a stone club. With no sun, the world was totally black and in his anger, Tezcatlipoca commanded his jaguars to eat all the people. [4]

The gods created a new group of people to inhabit the Earth, this time they were of normal size. Quetzalcoatl became the new sun and as the years passed, the people of the Earth grew less and less civilized and stopped showing proper honor to the gods. As a result, Tezcatlipoca demonstrated his power and authority as god of sorcery and judgment by turning the animalistic people into monkeys. Quetzalcoatl, who had loved the flawed people as they were, became upset and blew all of the monkeys from the face of the Earth with a mighty hurricane. He then stepped down as the sun to create a new people.

Some of Ometeotl’s later children, the Tzitzimitl, or stars, became jealous of their brighter, more important brother Huitzilopochtli. Their leader, Coyolxauhqui, goddess of the moon, lead them in an assault on the sun and every night they come close to victory when they shine throughout the sky, but are beaten back by the mighty Huitzilopochtli who rules the daytime sky. To aid this all-important god in his continuing war, the Aztecs offer him the nourishment of human sacrifices. They also offer human sacrifices to Tezcatlipoca in fear of his judgment, offer their own blood to Quetzalcoatl, who opposes fatal sacrifices, in thanks of his blood sacrifice for them and give offerings to many other gods for many purposes. Should these sacrifices cease, or should mankind fail to please the gods for any other reason, this fifth sun will go black, the world will be shattered by a catastrophic earthquake, and the Tzitzimitl will slay Huitzilopochtli and all of humanity

Edited by granpa

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granpa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehushtan

The Nehushtan (or Nehustan, Hebrew: נחושתן or נחש הנחושת), in the Hebrew Bible, was a sacred object in the form of a snake of brass upon a pole. The priestly source of the Torah says that Moses used a 'fiery serpent' to cure the Israelites from snakebites. (Numbers 21:4-9)

King Hezekiah (reigned 715/716 – 687 BCE) instituted a religious iconoclastic reform and destroyed "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did offer to it; and it was called Nehushtan." (2 Kings 18:4)

http://www.bluelette...ngs=H5180&t=KJV

נְחֻשְׁתָּן

Nehushtan = "a thing of brass"

1) name by which the brazen serpent made by Moses in the wilderness was worshipped in the time of king Hezekiah of Judah before he destroyed it

Edited by granpa

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granpa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hvergelmir

In Norse mythology, Hvergelmir (Old Norse "bubbling boiling spring"[1]) is a major spring. Hvergelmir is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In the Poetic Edda, Hvergelmir is mentioned in a single stanza, which details that it is the location where liquid from the antlers of the stag Eikþyrnir flow, and that the spring, "whence all waters rise", is the source of numerous rivers.[2] The Prose Edda repeats this information and adds that the spring is located in Niflheim, that it is one of the three major springs at the primary roots of the cosmic tree Yggdrasil (the other two are Urðarbrunnr and Mímisbrunnr), and that within the spring are a vast amount of snakes and the dragon Níðhöggr.

Hvergelmir is mentioned several times in the Prose Edda. In Gylfaginning, Just-as-High explains that the spring Hvergelmir is located in the foggy realm of Niflheim: "It was many ages before the earth was created that Niflheim was made, and in its midst lies a spring called Hvergelmir, and from it flows the rivers called Svol, Gunnthra, Fiorm, Fimbulthul, Slidr and Hrid, Sylg and Ylg, Vid, Leiptr; Gioll is next to Hell-gates."[3]

Later in Gylfaginning, Just-as-High describes the central tree Yggdrasil. Just-as-High says that three roots of the tree support it and "extend very, very far" and that the third of these three roots extends over Niflheim. Beneath this root, says Just-as-High, is the spring Hvergelmir, and that the base of the root is gnawed on by the dragon Níðhöggr.[4] Additionally, High says that Hvergelmir contains not only Níðhöggr but also so many snakes that "no tongue can enumerate them

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granpa

the whole artic region was Niflheim.

(especially those parts that were covered with glaciers during the ice age)

So Doggerland would indeed have been a part of Niflheim

Niflhel would have been even further north toward the north pole itself

Dogger Island was what was left of Doggerland after the catastrophic tsunami of 8200 BP.

Cold sea currents from the north and warmer sea currents from the newly formed Channel in the south would have met around Dogger Island, and made it a large island covered in fog.

In the Arctic no warm and cold sea currents meet and thus no fog- "Nifl" - will be formed.

The old name for the North Sea was "Hel". Coincidence?

The arctic ocean would be Nifl-hel

it is called this because it is north of niflheim. (the "hel" of niflheim. North is thought of as down)

not because "nifl" forms there.

"nifl" would form in niflheim

its easy to see how that would also be applied to the north sea

Edited by granpa

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jaylemurph

It's rather a pity gramps here blocked me before he started in with his lego linguistics.

Well, it's not /his/ really, is it? It's somebody else's that he's picked up and is aping without any actual working knowledge of linguistics. If he could see me, I'd show him how he's wrong and show him how this kind of historical linguistics actually works. Maybe then he could work up to /believable/ nonsense.

--Jaylemurph

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badeskov

It's rather a pity gramps here blocked me before he started in with his lego linguistics.

Well, it's not /his/ really, is it? It's somebody else's that he's picked up and is aping without any actual working knowledge of linguistics. If he could see me, I'd show him how he's wrong and show him how this kind of historical linguistics actually works. Maybe then he could work up to /believable/ nonsense.

--Jaylemurph

Maybe you could be bothered with showing some other ignoramus, namely my humble self?

Cheers,

Badeskov

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granpa

You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar

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jaylemurph

Maybe you could be bothered with showing some other ignoramus, namely my humble self?

Cheers,

Badeskov

You don't need be to tell you that cherry picking one or two words from different languages without showing multiple instances or the linguistic function that generated such instances means virtually nothing. I also don't need to tell you that suggesting relationship of two letters in a three letter morpheme -- like atl in the Nahuatl language and Greek (I suppose, gramps doesn't bother to clearly label which version of the multiple ancient Greek languages/dialects he's using* -- is again virtually useless.

* Again, I have to stress that this is almost certainly not his own original finding. He's... oh, what's a sufficiently euphemistic term? "citing someone else's original 'research' " with no real understanding of the study or terms he's using. Still, I suppose it's better he's pretending to be a linguist than pretending to be a thoracic surgeon or structural engineer or something.

-- Jaylemurph

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Abramelin

The Black Sea is one of four seas named in English after common color terms—the others being the Red Sea, the White Sea and the Yellow Sea

Strabo's Geography (1.2.10) reports that in antiquity, the Black Sea was often just called "the Sea" (ho pontos). For the most part, Graeco-Roman tradition refers to the Black Sea as the "Hospitable sea", Euxeinos Pontos (Εὔξεινος Πόντος). This is a euphemism replacing an earlier "Inhospitable Sea", Pontos Axeinos, first attested in Pindar (c.475 BC). Strabo (7.3.6) thinks that the Black Sea was called "inhospitable" before Greek colonization because it was difficult to navigate, and because its shores were inhabited by savage tribes. The name was changed to "hospitable" after the Milesians had colonized the southern shoreline, the Pontus, making it part of Greek civilization.

It is also possible that the name Axeinos arose by popular etymology from a Scythian word axšaina- "unlit", "dark"; the designation "Black Sea" may thus date from Antiquity.

According to a study by Giosan et al.[11] the level in the Black Sea before the marine reconnection was 30 m below present sea level, rather than the 80 m, or lower, of the catastrophe theories. If the flood occurred at all, the sea level increase and the flooded area during the reconnection were significantly smaller than previously proposed. It also occurred earlier than initially surmised, ca. 7400 BC, rather than the originally proposed 5600 BC. Since the depth of the Bosporus, in its middle furrow, at present varies from 36 to 124 m, with an average depth of 65 m, a calculated stone age shoreline in the Black Sea lying 30 m lower than in the present day would imply that the contact with the Mediterranean may never have been broken during the Holocene, and hence that there could have been no sudden waterfall-style transgression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis

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Abramelin

Dogger Island was what was left of Doggerland after the catastrophic tsunami of 8200 BP.

Cold sea currents from the north and warmer sea currents from the newly formed Channel in the south would have met around Dogger Island, and made it a large island covered in fog.

In the Arctic no warm and cold sea currents meet and thus no fog- "Nifl" - will be formed.

The old name for the North Sea was "Hel". Coincidence?

And I should have added that that tsunami lasted for maybe up to 2 days. A submarine sedimental area, half a mile thick, and the size of Iceland started shifting, west of Norway.

Now imagine that one, eh? The December 2004 tsunami lasting for 2 whole days instead of a couple of hours, tsunamis the size of a 6 floor house and wiping clean an area the size of California.

.

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granpa

I think a case can be made that Typhon is a type of (but not identical to) Ymir.

http://www.theoi.com...e/Typhoeus.html

The later poets frequently connect Typhoeus with Egypt, and the gods, it is said, when unable to hold out against him, fled to Egypt, where, from fear, they metamorphosed themselves into animals, with the exception of Zeus and Athena.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukkot

Sukkot, Succot or Sukkos (Hebrew: סוכות‎ or סֻכּוֹת sukkōt or sukkos, Feast of Booths, Feast of Tabernacles) is a biblical holiday celebrated on the 15th day of the month of Tishrei (varies from late September to late October). It is one of the three biblically mandated festivals Shalosh regalim on which Hebrews were commanded to make a pilgrimage to the Temple in Jerusalem

The Hebrew word sukkōt is the plural of sukkah, "booth or tabernacle", which is a walled structure covered with schach (plant material such as leafy tree overgrowth or palm leaves). The sukkah is intended as a reminiscence of the type of fragile dwellings in which the Israelites dwelt during their 40 years of travel in the desert after the Exodus from slavery in Egypt.

Genesis 33

Jacob, however, went to Sukkoth, where he built a place for himself and made booths for his livestock. That is why the place is called Sukkoth

Edited by granpa

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granpa
He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children; and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest;

the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men, and a large territory.

And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic.

To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.

Of the second pair of twins he called one Ampheres, and the other Evaemon.

To the elder of the third pair of twins he gave the name Mneseus, and Autochthon to the one who followed him.

Of the fourth pair of twins he called the elder Elasippus, and the younger Mestor.

And of the fifth pair he gave to the elder the name of Azaes, and to the younger that of Diaprepes.

All these and their descendants for many generations were the inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea; and also, as has been already said, they held sway in our direction over the country within the pillars as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia.

Matthew 8 (New International Version)

23 Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. 24 Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”

26 He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.

27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”

28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”

32 He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region

In Matthew's gospel, the manuscript tradition is split between the location being Gadarenes (such as the Codex Vaticanus) and Gergesenes (such as the Codex Washingtonianus).

15 And Canaan begat Sidon his first born, and Heth,

16 And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,

17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,

18 And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.

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Whisperer

Just another little possibility about the flood myths...

There was once a thing called 'The Firmanent" or something like that, a device recognised at the time (both Biblical and Shumer related myths from memory) as protecting mankind from the ravages of the Sun.

Stars twinkled brighter, weather was stable as in no extremes and so on.

Some sort of war saw this device shattered, world columns destroyed and devastation resulted.

The only clue I recall as to the nature of the firmament was a reference to the 4 world columns that held it aloft in a stable orbit and that reference was to Ice.

Should such a device have actually existed then broken up, the result would have been massive rains and therefore floods ( might have taken a centry or so for the gravity effect to pull it all down).

Since then the weather has become what we know today....

Sorry, dont recall the references where I read that interesting little bit except that it was online...

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granpa

In the context of the Norse cosmology there were three firmaments

svalinn, midgard, and niflheim

Nifiheim was flooded prior to the creation of midgard

Norse_cosmology.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalinn

In front of the sun does Svalinn stand, The shield for the shining god; Mountains and sea would be set in flames If it fell from before the sun. - Grímnismál 38, Henry Bellows' translation

http://www.maicar.co...L/Atlantis.html

According to Plato's account it was Solon, the Athenian statesman and poet whom History says lived 600 years after the Trojan War, the one who brought from Egypt the story of Atlantis.

This Egyptian priest knew that humankind is periodically destroyed, either by fire or water, or by lesser means. And behind the story of Phaethon 3, the Egyptian said, lies the shifting of the celestial bodies around the earth, which cause destruction by fire on its surface at long intervals. When this happens those living in dry areas or dwelling in mountains suffer destruction more than those living near rivers or by the sea. On the other hand, when the world is flooded, those living in mountains are saved, but those populating the cities near the sea are swept into it by the streams. Things being of this nature, those living by the Nile were spared when the world was destroyed by fire, and when it was destroyed by water they were also spared because rain is scarce in Egypt, the water welling up always from below. In this way, said the Egyptian priest, memories of ancient times could be preserved in this country while all records were destroyed elsewhere. And while in other countries the periodical destruction caused irreparable losses, in Egypt it was possible to keep records of very ancient times.

Edited by granpa

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granpa

6 And it cometh to pass that mankind have begun to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters have been born to them,

2 and sons of God see the daughters of men that they [are] fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen.

3 And Jehovah saith, `My Spirit doth not strive in man -- to the age; in their erring they [are] flesh:' and his days have been an hundred and twenty years.

4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them -- they [are] the Gibborim (Heroes), who, from of old, [are] the men of name (renown).

Heracles = Hero + kleos "glory, renown"

And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: ‘Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.’ And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: ‘I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.’ And they all answered him and said: ‘Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.’ Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. These are their chiefs of tens.

7

And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

In Greek mythology, Deucalion[pronunciation?] (Ancient Greek: Δευκαλίων) was a son of Prometheus; ancient sources name his mother as Clymene, Hesione, or Pronoia.[1] The anger of Zeus was ignited by the hubris of the Pelasgians, so he decided to put an end to the Bronze Age. Lycaon, the king of Arcadia, had sacrificed a boy to Zeus, who was appalled by this savage offering. Zeus unleashed a deluge, so that the rivers ran in torrents and the sea flooded the coastal plain, engulfed the foothills with spray, and washed everything clean. Deucalion, with the aid of his father Prometheus, was saved from this deluge by building a chest (that is, a "box").[2] Like the Biblical Noah and the Mesopotamian counterpart Utnapishtim, he uses his device to survive the deluge with his wife, Pyrrha.

Edited by granpa

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granpa

According to some Roman sources,[4] while on his way to the garden of the Hesperides on the island of Erytheia, Hercules had to cross the mountain that was once Atlas. Instead of climbing the great mountain, Hercules used his superhuman strength to smash through it. By doing so, he created the Pillars of Hercules

Edited by granpa

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granpa

After Hercules completed his first ten Labours, Eurystheus gave him two more claiming that neither the Hydra counted (because Iolaus helped Hercules) nor the Augean stables (either because he received payment for the job or because the rivers did the work). The first of these two additional Labours was to steal the apples from the garden of the Hesperides. Hercules first caught the Old Man of the Sea,[12] the shape-shifting sea god, to learn where the Garden of the Hesperides was located.[13]

In some variations, Hercules, either at the start or at the end of his task, meets Antaeus, who was invincible as long as he touched his mother, Gaia, the earth. Hercules killed Antaeus by holding him aloft and crushing him in a bearhug.[14]

Herodotus claims that Hercules stopped in Egypt, where King Busiris decided to make him the yearly sacrifice, but Hercules burst out of his chains.

AtlasMelbourneSculpture of Atlas in Melbourne, Australia.

Finally making his way to the Garden of the Hesperides, Hercules tricked Atlas into retrieving some of the golden apples for him, by offering to hold up the heavens for a little while (Atlas was able to take them as, in this version, he was the father or otherwise related to the Hesperides). This would have made this task – like the Hydra and Augean stables – void because he had received help. Upon his return, Atlas decided that he did not want to take the heavens back, and instead offered to deliver the apples himself, but Hercules tricked him again by agreeing to take his place on condition that Atlas relieve him temporarily so that Hercules could make his cloak more comfortable. Atlas agreed, but Hercules reneged and walked away, carrying the apples. According to an alternative version, Hercules slew Ladon, the dragon-like guardian of the apples, instead. Furious that Hercules had accomplished something that Eurystheus thought could not possibly be done, he sent Hercules off to his final task, the capture of Cerberus, the three-headed guardian hound of the gates of the Underworld.

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The Puzzler

http://answers.yahoo...25022701AA87aVt

http://www.viewzone.com/atlantis.html

Also coatl = Serpent

And in case you missed it earlier:

atlatl = atl-atl

46and about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a great voice, saying, `Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' that is, `My God, my God, why didst Thou forsake me?'

(In rigorous Mayan language, Heli Lamah Zabac Tani signifies: “Now, I immerse within Him, before the dawning of his presence.”)[10]

47And certain of those standing there having heard, said -- `Elijah he doth call

atoll is word that comes to mind. (Indo-Aryan language) http://dictionary.re...etymology/atoll

Or Father - aita - in Basque and numerous other language + las from Latin, weary, tired. I'm mixing two languages but feel this makes a lot of sense and might work in some way, especially once taken into Greek and Hellenised.

Father tired or father enduring, that kind of thing - a tired mountain father (from holding up the sky, that is hard work) - especially since Atlas had a numerous family, he must be some kind of father figure.

he always looks really tired and I hear this used in words to describe him, when he tries to trick Heracles to hold the sky or in older etymologies like 'enduring'.

220px-Atlas_Santiago_Toural_GFDL.jpg

Edited by The Puzzler

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The Puzzler

6 And it cometh to pass that mankind have begun to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters have been born to them,

2 and sons of God see the daughters of men that they [are] fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen.

3 And Jehovah saith, `My Spirit doth not strive in man -- to the age; in their erring they [are] flesh:' and his days have been an hundred and twenty years.

4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them -- they [are] the Gibborim (Heroes), who, from of old, [are] the men of name (renown).

Heracles = Hero + kleos "glory, renown"

In Greek mythology, Deucalion[pronunciation?] (Ancient Greek: Δευκαλίων) was a son of Prometheus; ancient sources name his mother as Clymene, Hesione, or Pronoia.[1] The anger of Zeus was ignited by the hubris of the Pelasgians, so he decided to put an end to the Bronze Age. Lycaon, the king of Arcadia, had sacrificed a boy to Zeus, who was appalled by this savage offering. Zeus unleashed a deluge, so that the rivers ran in torrents and the sea flooded the coastal plain, engulfed the foothills with spray, and washed everything clean. Deucalion, with the aid of his father Prometheus, was saved from this deluge by building a chest (that is, a "box").[2] Like the Biblical Noah and the Mesopotamian counterpart Utnapishtim, he uses his device to survive the deluge with his wife, Pyrrha.

The Nephilim might have been Armenians - in the Levant at the time.

The Armenians identified their forefather Hayk with Orion. Hayk is also the name of the Orion constellation in the Armenian translation of the Bible.[7]

In ancient Aram, the constellation was known as Nephîlā′, the Nephilim may have been Orion's descendants

http://en.wikipedia...._(constellation)

or The stars of Orion were associated with Osiris, the sun-god of rebirth and afterlife, by the ancient Egyptians

Maybe Orion is even some form of Atlas, up there, holding up the sky. Or the pole.

-------------

Norwegian:

Etymology

From Old Norse hel, the goddess of death or the death realm itself (compare helvete), from Proto-Germanic *haljō, ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *ḱel- (“to cover, hide, conceal”). Compare Icelandic hel, English hell, Dutch hel, German Hölle.

Hel is because it was cloudy, misty COVERED in darkness etc. (the North Sea)

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hel

PIE kel - goes through to the way we are buried, kurgans, tells - they cover you over, bury us, in the ground, in a cell/kel - in hell/hel (cover, conceal) - underground... (Hades type)

and just to confuse a bit more - Aita in Etruscan is the God Hades. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aita_(mythology)

Edited by The Puzzler

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The Puzzler

Now, Hades kinda sounds like Gades - to which I assign the etymology of gates - a stronghold, but a walled dyke, like a harbour wall, that allows ships in, as in Atlantis, the harbour was surrounded by a wall and all circular walls, have gates, the most famous being the gates of Troy, that is the entrance to the...underworld. Of course, by getting through the gate, Troy fell, a possible rendition of them going to the Underworld. Maybe hinting at their Keltic roots.

Just like garden's have gates. The gate is everywhere, there is no way imo that it's not connected. There's even a gate in Heaven, heaven's gate or St Peter's gate - you can only go in and out of anywhere, heaven or hell through a gate after being allowed.

The whole Mediterranean is like a harbour - there's only one way in and out - through the gate. This concept abounds once you recognise it.

Carthage:

carthage.jpg

The inside areas are protection zones.

The underworld in numerous ancient myths and stories have the underworld placed where Atlantis is, so it seems likely that the submergence of Atlantis is also connected to an underworld theme.

Niflheim - the North Sea - Hel - as shown before etymology lies in 'covered, hidden, concealed' - which I can see does indeed make a connection to this whole thing - we are in a kind of hel, which was kel/cel when we are buried, underground, in Hades - through the gates.

kel in that etymology may be the same for Kelts, they were people who buried the dead in cels, kels - they had Hades, in fact it is written that Mercury (Hades) is their principal God.

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kel has a very interesting etymology and might even equate to those who raised stones.

Here's a Hungarian etymology, which would be the same as Finnish. kala might even be in relation to the Kalavala. The uprising.

Hungarian

Etymology 1

From Proto-Ugric *kälä- (“to rise, stand up”).

Verb

kel

  1. rise

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kel

You could guarantee it's also related to Hall - a kind of cel after death that you go to if you're a hero - which in fact is again related, in the form of, to rise (to a status).

Valhalla, hall of the slain.

I note also, in Dutch hel is 'to rise' in the form of hills, so even though that above is Proto-Ugric it connects into IE by this form, kel, hel, hill etc etc etc

The Hellenes in the Oera Linda Book is given an etymology of so called as they live on the hill-sides, on the hel (the rises).

Helios could be called because the Sun rises.

Then there is hel:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hel

Edited by The Puzzler

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The_Spartan

eventually linguistic gymnastics has to come into play.

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The Puzzler

eventually linguistic gymnastics has to come into play.

:sleepy:

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jaylemurph

eventually linguistic gymnastics has to come into play.

What Puzzler does is not, by any stretch of the imagination, linguistics. It deserves its own name to differentiate it from actual linguistics so that no one suffers under the delusion Puzzler knows what she's talking about. Codlingua? Semiofantasism? Historical and Comparative b******s? MadeUpotics?

--Jaylemurph

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