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petermattson

The disappearance of Charles Gazzam Hurd.

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Vincennes

Maybe his plane is on Mount Desert Island!

Maybe it is !!!! :tu: It does seem this guy had "a plan." Did you get to, "I'm putting the plan into effect?"

However, I am more influenced with the fact these two were of the same genre. If you review the clip from the 20's showing how these kids had lived... two yachts, not just one, multiple servants, "butler". no less... Again, my best statement of where they would go lends itself to: "What did they not know?" rather than "What did they know?"

I don't think they had a clue how to survive without money and the accruements that, in order to live, they were "entitled."

If they had a plan...It would have included only the best.

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petermattson

Maybe it is !!!! :tu: It does seem this guy had "a plan." Did you get to, "I'm putting the plan into effect?"

However, I am more influenced with the fact these two were of the same genre. If you review the clip from the 20's showing how these kids had lived... two yachts, not just one, multiple servants, "butler". no less... Again, my best statement of where they would go lends itself to: "What did they not know?" rather than "What did they know?"

I don't think they had a clue how to survive without money and the accruements that, in order to live, they were "entitled."

If they had a plan...It would have included only the best.

Good point! I'm wondering what airfield he was supposed to land at? I'm sure that information is available somewhere because this case was much more high-profile than that Charles Hurd case. It's certainly more than possible that he crashed over water and was never found because of that. But it seems he had some motivations to disappear and the part about putting the plan into action can be interpreted in a variety of ways.

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petermattson

Mother: Emily GazzaM - not an N, died in 1931, family came from the southern states, her family had political connections, father was a Senator (or some such, I forgot to write it down) but several legal and political connections there.

Bored by a lack of leads, I looked into Marie's father - a state senator from PA it seems - who barely escaped a hotel fire in 1909.

(By the way, he owned the hotel.) Lots of fires surrounding these folks. :o

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1946&dat=19090415&id=I880AAAAIBAJ&sjid=84QFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1594,4235528

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Vincennes

Bored by a lack of leads, I looked into Marie's father - a state senator from PA it seems - who barely escaped a hotel fire in 1909.

(By the way, he owned the hotel.) Lots of fires surrounding these folks. :o

http://news.google.c...pg=1594,4235528

I lived outside Chicago a few years back and we used to call those, "A convenient redecorating fire." :tu: LOL

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petermattson

I lived outside Chicago a few years back and we used to call those, "A convenient redecorating fire." :tu: LOL

I guess it would be a clever and extremely risky way to avoid suspicion of insurance fraud, but according to the article the Senator Gazzam who owned the building escaped by jumping from a third-story window!

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petermattson

I can't access the full article but this headline is intriguing. I believe it refers to the State Senator Gazzam and from the timing it seems he would have been Marie's grandfather. Look at the money! In 1907!!

PUT HER HATRED IN HER WILL. Mrs. Gazzam, Leaving $1,250,000, Tells Daughter to Shun Her Father

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0C15F73D5A17738DDDAA0894D8415B878CF1D3

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Vincennes

I can't access the full article but this headline is intriguing. I believe it refers to the State Senator Gazzam and from the timing it seems he would have been Marie's grandfather. Look at the money! In 1907!!

PUT HER HATRED IN HER WILL. Mrs. Gazzam, Leaving $1,250,000, Tells Daughter to Shun Her Father

http://select.nytime...4D8415B878CF1D3

I think this is a WOW - Land fraud interesting ?

I also found this on a search of Keewaydin Island/s history. http://www.keewaydin...mi/our-history/ Check out the third paragraph. It sounds to me as they are saying the corporate managers are being ditched. If Hurd's job was connected to managing property in Maine for Dow.... Then addition reason(s) here why things might have been taking a bad turn for Charles..

I was able to open your file and save as a PDF. I hope this might enable you to read it. I have to admit though, I'm confused with my Gazzams. Would this have been Marie Louise Jr.s

mother's father ??? Since the article was written in 1907 and the will and Marie was born about 1907 might be. It sounds like the daughter who inherited was a child but I think not. I think she was just assigning people to protect her financially and socially.

Edited by Duncansmom
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petermattson

I think this is a WOW - Land fraud interesting ?

I also found this on a search of Keewaydin Island/s history. http://www.keewaydin...mi/our-history/ Check out the third paragraph. It sounds to me as they are saying the corporate managers are being ditched. If Hurd's job was connected to managing property in Maine for Dow.... Then addition reason(s) here why things might have been taking a bad turn for Charles..

I was able to open your file and save as a PDF. I hope this might enable you to read it. I have to admit though, I'm confused with my Gazzams. Would this have been Marie Louise Jr.s

mother's father ??? Since the article was written in 1907 and the will and Marie was born about 1907 might be. It sounds like the daughter who inherited was a child but I think not. I think she was just assigning people to protect her financially and socially.

Yeah, I'm confused too. But it may be that Marie's mother put it in her will for her daughter to shun her father. All of the search results I get for Senator Gazzam seem to be related to fraud investigations. And that's leaving out the fire that burned down his hotel in Asheville.

$1.25 million would be about $25 million today, according to the online inflation calculator I consulted.

If there is anything significant in that PDF I'd love to take a look at it!

Edited by petermattson

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Vincennes

I just found something else....

June 8. at 3 P, M. Please omit flowers. ...Joseph C. Blnmenthal, Rose Leete, Ellsworth N. Bossak, Jacob I^evy, ixrtlu t ...li, beloved wife of the late Lenard John Burtis. ...iurdurichard M., on June 6. beloved husband of Lucy Gazzam Hurd. .... are respectfully requested to attend funeral sen-ices at th* Boyertown Chapel.

June 7, 1941 - OBITUARIES - Article - Print Headline: "Obituary 1 -- No Title"

"Lucy Gazzam Hurd" certainly there couldn't been that many Gazzam Hurd. Did Marie Louise use her middle name as "Lucy" Since her mom's name was also Marie Louise, people sometimes do that. So is this Charles' obituary..... This as all of it I could get to but this could have been when they were declaring him dead...

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petermattson

I ran into a lot of confusion from the Who's Who book when I started doing this research.

Here's what the family tree looks like based on what I've come to understand:

George Hurd married Emily Gazzam in 1898.

Their children (in order of birth) were Arthur, Katharine, Charles and Clarissa (twins).

Richard Hurd married Lucy Gazzam in 1898 (a joint wedding?).

Their children (in order of birth) were Mary, Eleanor, Richard Jr., Clement (illustrator of GOODNIGHT MOON, etc.) and Lucy Lea.

It seems most likely that the obit was for Richard Hurd who would have been Charles' uncle.

Info here:

http://books.google....am hurd&f=false

From that link you posted, this is the passage that I suppose is the most intriguing:

"By 1938, the camp board was large with diverging interests and directors, and a dissolution of the Keewaydin Camps, Ltd partnership was proposed, and accepted, by the board. Many of the camps went to private ownership by each director, some then disappeared or after greater longevity subsequently closed."

Much more research should flow from this (Was Dows' Estates one of the private owners? They were instrumental in "building" Mount Desert Island.) but I don't have a clue where to start.

Edited by petermattson
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petermattson

I'm silly.

Not that this has any relevance but it was clearly not a joint wedding. Both couples were married in Mobile the same year but different days.

I think this is relevant: Brothers marrying sisters. I suppose it was quite common among the aristocratic class at the time but you would think it would have made the family very close. But Charles, at least, seemed distant.

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Vincennes

I ran into a lot of confusion from the Who's Who book when I started doing this research.

Here's what the family tree looks like based on what I've come to understand:

George Hurd married Emily Gazzam in 1898.

Their children (in order of birth) were Arthur, Katharine, Charles and Clarissa (twins).

Richard Hurd married Lucy Gazzam in 1898 (a joint wedding?).

Their children (in order of birth) were Mary, Eleanor, Richard Jr., Clement (illustrator of GOODNIGHT MOON, etc.) and Lucy Lea.

It seems most likely that the obit was for Richard Hurd who would have been Charles' uncle.

Info here:

http://books.google....am hurd&f=false

From that link you posted, this is the passage that I suppose is the most intriguing:

"By 1938, the camp board was large with diverging interests and directors, and a dissolution of the Keewaydin Camps, Ltd partnership was proposed, and accepted, by the board. Many of the camps went to private ownership by each director, some then disappeared or after greater longevity subsequently closed."

Much more research should flow from this (Was Dows' Estates one of the private owners? They were instrumental in "building" Mount Desert Island.) but I don't have a clue where to start.

Yep, that's exactly what I saw too. Sorry if directed you to the wrong paragraph.

Here's a few more things I found about Mrs. Gazzam with the mean will. LOL Hold on cuz this is funny.

This are headlines form the New York Post

EDS THE SOUL MATE HE MET BY CHANCE; Antoinette Gazzam ...

Antoinette Elizabeth Gazzam, the heiress of several millions, whose earnest quest or a .... She married Joseph M. Uazzain. a former Pennsylvania State Senator,

(Unfortunately I don't think he stayed her soul mate.)

Again NY Post headline :

ASTROLOGER'S WIFE SUES MISS GAZZAM; Mrs. Clark Wants $150,000 from Heiress to $3,000,000 for Winning Husband's Love. REFUSED TO GIVE HIM UP Miss Gazzam,

Mrs. Clark Declares, Said She Would Have Her Husband "If It Cost Forty Lives." Gazzam, Mrs. Clark Declares, Said She Would Have Her Husband "If It Cost Forty Lives."

(She settled out of court for $25,000)

NY Post

CHARLES B_: ?ALVIN i; Ex-Engineer With Docks unitj Also Helped ...

[PDF]

His marriage, on Oct 17, 1910, to the late Antoinette Elizabeth Gazzam, received considerable publicity. The newspapers had already given much attention to ... View free preview

November 21, 1943 - Article - Print Headline: "CHARLES B_: ?ALVIN i; Ex-Engineer With Docks UnitJ Also Helped Build Aqueduct /"

Please don't miss this last link.

http://unknownmisand...ing-gazzam.html

I'm thinking these Gazzam girls were thoroughly modern!! An astrologer !!! Parental Kidnapping !!!! :clap:

Edited by Duncansmom

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Vincennes

Yeah, I'm confused too. But it may be that Marie's mother put it in her will for her daughter to shun her father. All of the search results I get for Senator Gazzam seem to be related to fraud investigations. And that's leaving out the fire that burned down his hotel in Asheville.

$1.25 million would be about $25 million today, according to the online inflation calculator I consulted.

If there is anything significant in that PDF I'd love to take a look at it!

No, I think we have mixed up our crazy millionaires :yes: Marie Louise, Charles wife was a Schreiber. Charles is the Gazzam. I don't know what took me to Mary Louise. Anyway that's what I was looking for when I hit all the Gazzam funnies. I was going through the parties, etc. to see who was at Keewaydin. And, everybody was for sure !..... At least on the Gazzam side. I had no luck finding a Hurd there but Charles grandmother sure as heck summered there and it would be logical that they might have even owned property. I think we might need to go thru the 1930 on property records which is going to be almost impossible if we can not identify a more exact area she was located in on Keewaydin.

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petermattson

No, I think we have mixed up our crazy millionaires :yes: Marie Louise, Charles wife was a Schreiber. Charles is the Gazzam. I don't know what took me to Mary Louise. Anyway that's what I was looking for when I hit all the Gazzam funnies. I was going through the parties, etc. to see who was at Keewaydin. And, everybody was for sure !..... At least on the Gazzam side. I had no luck finding a Hurd there but Charles grandmother sure as heck summered there and it would be logical that they might have even owned property. I think we might need to go thru the 1930 on property records which is going to be almost impossible if we can not identify a more exact area she was located in on Keewaydin.

Ah, yes. Silliness strikes again! Trying to do this in the midst of teaching high schoolers has turned out to be quite taxing on the mind! So the Gazzam girls - Lucy and Emily - were the product of all this craziness. Was Antoinette their aunt? I need to make a true family tree for all of them so it's straight in my mind!

Do you have a "go to" website for property records? I have never done much of this type of research myself. It seems Keewaydin would be a particularly difficult place to find records.

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Vincennes

The relationship is in the article that you posted regarding the fire:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0C15F73D5A17738DDDAA0894D8415B878CF1D3

Anntoinette's inheritance came from her mother. Mary Anna Reading Gazzam. Who sued her father, Joseph Gazzam for land fraud. Joseph went on and later remarried. Emily is also Joseph's daughter. Emily and Anntoinette are step-sisters. That's why there's a little distance in their ages. I have been looking for a family tree but I can't find one that includes Joseph's second marriage to Emily's mother.

I'm going to bet here that Mary Anna Reading's money came from the "Reading" railroad. I always thought it was named after the town of Reading. I'm wondering now if the town wasn't a rail road location that was named after the family.

Interestingly, this article also details a previous alienation of affection lawsuit which is why I saw two different settlement amount. Daughter Annoinette seems to have been taking after mama. The $25,000 settlement was filed by Mary Anna's COUSIN's wife, Mrs. Charlton Reading.

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petermattson

The relationship is in the article that you posted regarding the fire:

http://select.nytime...4D8415B878CF1D3

Anntoinette's inheritance came from her mother. Mary Anna Reading Gazzam. Who sued her father, Joseph Gazzam for land fraud. Joseph went on and later remarried. Emily is also Joseph's daughter. Emily and Anntoinette are step-sisters. That's why there's a little distance in their ages. I have been looking for a family tree but I can't find one that includes Joseph's second marriage to Emily's mother.

I'm going to bet here that Mary Anna Reading's money came from the "Reading" railroad. I always thought it was named after the town of Reading. I'm wondering now if the town wasn't a rail road location that was named after the family.

Interestingly, this article also details a previous alienation of affection lawsuit which is why I saw two different settlement amount. Daughter Annoinette seems to have been taking after mama. The $25,000 settlement was filed by Mary Anna's COUSIN's wife, Mrs. Charlton Reading.

"Half-sister" (step-sister implies no blood connection) was my second guess! I wonder how close they were and if the craziness was hereditary. I found a result for a "Shep Hurd" in Maine, 1938 collecting a reward of $1,500 for giving information leading to the round-up of a gang. Did Charles become an informant/bounty hunter? Seems unlikely he would carry around the same last name if his goal was disappearance.

Edited by petermattson

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petermattson

The town is named for the family/railroad so we can safely assume due to the geographical proximity that the ex Mrs. Reading Gazzam was an heiress to that fortune. The $3 million given to her daughter at the turn of the 20th century was obviously an unbelievable amount of money. There may be WAY more out there if she was spreading her wealth around.

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petermattson

Just adding a little more "fuel" to this peculiar "fire", I found this glowing history of Joseph Gazzam, Charles' maternal grandfather with his hand in what seems like a zillion businesses and the holder of many political offices (additionally, a clerk for a Supreme Court Justice in the 1870s).

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

(Joseph Murphy Gazzam's bio begins on page 47.)

Edited by petermattson

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Regi

I haven't read this thread word for word, but has it been considered that since the man had already been involved in a vehicle accident, that it's possible that he later drove off a pier somewhere around there?

I'm considering that he could have been drunk (the first accident), or with a head injury as a result of the accident....and that it was after dark and his vehicle was missing along with him.

Edited by regi
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petermattson

I haven't read this thread word for word, but has it been considered that since the man had already been involved in a vehicle accident, that it's possible that he later drove off a pier somewhere around there?

I'm considering that he could have been drunk (the first accident), or with a head injury as a result of the accident....and that it was after dark and his vehicle was missing along with him.

That was one of my first thoughts. To my knowledge, they never even found his car which certainly could be a result of it ending up in a body of water. I've been exploring other ideas because even though the scenario you've presented is plausible, maybe even likely, that would be a "dead end."

The one point that makes this case intriguing is the wealth and prominence of his family at the time. You would think with their resources and profile, they would have made a lot more noise but there are only a couple of newspaper articles that mention anything about the case.

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Regi

That was one of my first thoughts. To my knowledge, they never even found his car which certainly could be a result of it ending up in a body of water. I've been exploring other ideas because even though the scenario you've presented is plausible, maybe even likely, that would be a "dead end."

No, that theory could be investigated further because whatever were the obvious locations at that time could be searched for the vehicle.

The one point that makes this case intriguing is the wealth and prominence of his family at the time. You would think with their resources and profile, they would have made a lot more noise but there are only a couple of newspaper articles that mention anything about the case.

I don't know what to comment about that except that I recognize that it was a different era, you know?

Edited by regi
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petermattson

No, that theory could be investigated further because whatever were the obvious locations at that time could be searched for the vehicle.

I don't know what to comment about that except that I recognize that it was a different era, you know?

To your first point, I only meant that it is a "dead end" for me personally, as I will not be searching the Hudson or any other river for Charles' car.

To your second point, I agree that the era is a consideration for a number of reasons (geopolitical as well as social/cultural) but I think based on all the research I've done that this was an extremely public family in NYC (reporters interviewed Charles' aunt at her home about her wedding, in one example) that it is very odd how silent the family was about this mysterious disappearance.

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Regi

To your first point, I only meant that it is a "dead end" for me personally, as I will not be searching the Hudson or any other river for Charles' car.

Oh, heck! All you need are flippers and a snorkel. You won't be noticed...go for it! :gun:

Seriously, I think it's a probable theory because I know of no indication which would suggest anything else even plausible.

I do appreciate that you're doing what you can to obtain as much info. as possible from where you're sitting. :tu:

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petermattson

Oh, heck! All you need are flippers and a snorkel. You won't be noticed...go for it! :gun:

Seriously, I think it's a probable theory because I know of no indication which would suggest anything else even plausible.

I do appreciate that you're doing what you can to obtain as much info. as possible from where you're sitting. :tu:

I thank you for believing in my aquatic skills, but I think that work is above my pay-grade.

The theory is logical. However, there is no evidence at all that Charles drove his car into a body of water. (I realize it would be a rare case where there WAS evidence of such a thing.)

There are some intriguing details that indicate he may have needed to disappear, related to his employment at Dow Estates -- mostly that there seems to be a large gap in the archives maintained by his employer during his time as a manager of that mortgage/real estate business. He ate dinner that night at a restaurant out of the way of both his work and his (impermanent) home at a Manhattan hotel. His family's total silence is another piece of the puzzle that lends credence to the notion of a planned disappearance. Maybe he is just another drunk/injured/suicidal case whose car ended up in a river, but if no one around him had any reason to expect him to act impulsively, it seems reasonable to suspect something else was at play.

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