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petermattson

The disappearance of Charles Gazzam Hurd.

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Charleysgranddaughter

I read this post with great interest. I am Charles Gazzam Hurd's granddaughter, the one who sent information about his 1937 disappearance to The Doe Network. My grandfather's disappearance has intrigued me for as long as I can remember. I would love nothing more than to discover what happened to him, not just for me, but for my 83 year old father, Charles Gazzam Hurd Jr., who was not quite 7 years old when his beloved father vanished.

Few photos of my grandfather still exist, and yes, there's a story there. However, I do have one other photo that I'll be happy to share with whomever is interested, along with answers to many of the questions that have been raised in this forum. I prefer not to data-dump here, but I'll be happy to chat with any of you one-on-one regarding your findings and theories. My email address is ahf2527@optonline.net. I look forward to hearing from you. Maybe there's hope of solving this mystery after all!

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Regi

I thank you for believing in my aquatic skills, but I think that work is above my pay-grade.

:lol: Yeah, I guess that wasn't a well thought out idea. :td::lol:

There are some intriguing details that indicate he may have needed to disappear, related to his employment at Dow Estates -- mostly that there seems to be a large gap in the archives maintained by his employer during his time as a manager of that mortgage/real estate business.

If that's true, I wouldn't discount that it could be an effort to preserve his reputation.

He ate dinner that night at a restaurant out of the way of both his work and his (impermanent) home at a Manhattan hotel.

I would assume he ate dinner where he chose to. Also, unless I was wrong about the locations, he was headed in the direction of where he was living when the accident occurred.

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petermattson

I would assume he ate dinner where he chose to. Also, unless I was wrong about the locations, he was headed in the direction of where he was living when the accident occurred.

Yes, all signs point to the fact that he had the means to eat dinner where he chose. I only brought that up because another commentor had shown that he was out of the way from what would presumably be his natural path from work to home. In a case with so little to go on, it's easy to grasp at the smallest of straws.

I am very hopeful that we will learn more now that Charles' granddaughter is here!

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Regi

I only brought that up because another commentor had shown that he was out of the way from what would presumably be his natural path from work to home.

I understood the implication, but since he was last known headed toward where he was living as opposed to away from, I think that strengthens the assumption that he simply ate where he chose to.

In other words, I think that straw's too small to grasp. :P

I am very hopeful that we will learn more now that Charles' granddaughter is here!

...was here.

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petermattson

I understood the implication, but since he was last known headed toward where he was living as opposed to away from, I think that strengthens the assumption that he simply ate where he chose to.

In other words, I think that straw's too small to grasp. :P

Maybe it is. It would help if we knew whether that was in any way unusual for him or if he followed any typical routine. I agree that without that knowledge this is not much to go on. If this was outside of his routine, the possibility that he was meeting someone that he didn't want to be seen with comes into play. But, I agree. Small straw.

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Vincennes

I understood the implication, but since he was last known headed toward where he was living as opposed to away from, I think that strengthens the assumption that he simply ate where he chose to.

In other words, I think that straw's too small to grasp. :P

...was here.

I'm really glad to see you join us in this thread. However, this is the third one that you form the non-refutable conclusion of suicide. All any of us have here is "small straws" on which to form any conclusions. If you would just outline your reasoning and what you see as evidence for a suicide other than ....... a man went missing.

As far as the dinner out that evening, I think the Ziegfeld district, the "theater" district, where he dined, was about 30 blocks from his hotel residence. A city block is usually approx. one quarter of a mile. That would mean Charles drove over 7 miles in New York during dinner hour traffic for no reason ? The headed back toward his hotel, going half-way and made a U turn toward a pier??? Nothing about that rings with any logic to me what so ever and yet, you always "feel" suicide so strongly. Reasons? We all accept that Charles went missing.

Edited by Vincennes

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Regi

I'm really glad to see you join us in this thread.

:st

However, this is the third one that you form the non-refutable conclusion of suicide.

Edited because I sooo misinterpreted that when I first posted. I'm not suggesting suicide; I'm suggesting accident!

If you would just outline your reasoning

Since he already had one accident...and since his vehicle is also missing...and since there are piers around there....

It appeared to be an ordinary evening. The accident was a bit out of the ordinary, but I wouldn't consider it unusual.

Accident is the first thing I'd consider based on those circumstances.

The headed back toward his hotel, going half-way and made a U turn toward a pier??? Nothing about that rings with any logic to me what so ever

You know, he could have been headed somewhere else and still went off a pier. (Just sayin'!)

You know me...I need a visual. I need map of the area in '37! Ya got one? :gun:

Edited by regi

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Vincennes

Yeah, as a matter of fact I do. I offered it to you way back when you were not interested in this thread. As a matter of fact they are still there in my posts. However, if you can't find them, city blocks are still counted the same way in New York City. They haven't shortened or lengthened them believe me. The Ziegfeld district is still the Show district even now.

Your suicide rationale ?

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Regi

Yeah, as a matter of fact I do. I offered it to you way back when you were not interested in this thread. As a matter of fact they are still there in my posts. However, if you can't find them, city blocks are still counted the same way in New York City.

I don't remember any '37 map and it's not city blocks I'm interested in.

Your suicide rationale ?

Read my post.

Edited by regi

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Vincennes

I have read all six of your posts on this thread and two of the other forms you have participated in. What do you want me to show you on a map? You can not just apply suicide to every case that does not have a solution. If suicide is okay with you...then go with it....Then for you, the mystery is solved.; but perhaps maybe, just maybe, everyone does not agree with you. Is that ok? Can we go on discussing it ? Will that be ok?

Edited by Vincennes

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Vincennes

I have read your posts each time in every one of the forums. What do you want me to show you on a map? You can not just apply suicide to every case that does not have a solution.

If that is okay with you...then go with it. It is a viable solution to the mystery but just perhaps maybe, just maybe, everyone does not agree with you. Is that OK ? I for one do not agree with you. . You have nothing to base suicide on other than, as I said, this man went missing, I have read all six of your posts on this thread, your rationale please.

Edited by Vincennes

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Regi

Indeed, maybe Hurd voluntarily disappeared, or maybe he was even murdered.

I have no idea what indicators the investigation might or might not have turned up re: his disappearance.

I added my two cents because I wondered what the line of thinking was on that particular angle.

Granted, I think I was wrong to characterize 'accident' as "probable" because it's merely what I would call first.

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Vincennes

I'm sorry, Regi, sometimes I have problems with my broadband connection. I'm going merrily along with my posting, my thread doesn't update and then I see their are posts behind me. It also takes a while sometimes for my own posts to show up, I think it didn't take and end up repeating myself. I have to remember to go off the thread and then back on.

An accident is probably possible. It was February in New York but I haven't been able to find a weather archive that goes back far enough to see if there might have been snow or ice going on.

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Regi

I'm sorry, Regi

:tu:

It was February in New York but I haven't been able to find a weather archive that goes back far enough to see if there might have been snow or ice going on.

That's one thing that if it isn't already immediately apparent or noted that I always forget to consider! :nw:

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Vincennes

Thanks, Regi ! It would be interesting to find that out what the weather was that night. I'm talking here about the original accident that was reported. Being here in snow and ice country myself, I do know overhangs of the road; e.g., tree branches, etc. often hold ice buildup which sometimes is not present on the rest of the streets. I'm saying this because in the first accident, he hit the support of an elevated train track. If it wasn't a temperature that would cause that, then we are left with the probability he might have had a cocktail too many with dinner or did something else happen to deter from his driving abilities; e.g. was he being chased and that's why he got back in the car so quickly ? He was coming from the theater district ~ :unsure2: I'm just now reading the book by Johnny Carson's attorney and it touches on the "influences" of even today's theater. :whistle:

Edited by Vincennes
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Regi

Thanks, Regi ! It would be interesting to find that out what the weather was that night. I'm talking here about the original accident that was reported. Being here in snow and ice country myself, I do know overhangs of the road; e.g., tree branches, etc. often hold ice buildup which sometimes is not present on the rest of the streets. I'm saying this because in the first accident, he hit the support of an elevated train track. If it wasn't a temperature that would cause that, then we are left with the probability he might have had a cocktail too many with dinner or did something else happen to deter from his driving abilities; e.g. was he being chased and that's why he got back in the car so quickly ?

Yeah, I wonder about the circumstances surrounding that accident and what might have contributed to it.

I'd said that I'd find it a bit out of the ordinary, but not unusual and I've changed my take on that.

The fact that he was never seen again after that accident seems to make it figure a little more prominently, right?

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Vincennes

Computer totally frizzed yesterday. It would most certainly. I did try to call to see if we could obtain a police report but that is an entire New York labyrinth which would be complicated by the fact had to have been later declared dead. So do they then pull the missing person report ? I don't know and I couldn't get through the automatic voices to find out...If even they would know what they with them back in the 30s. I feel that with the photos of old New York etc. we have perhaps just peeked back into the past and perhaps that's all we can do.

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Regi

I did try to call to see if we could obtain a police report

Oh, I love it! :clap: I so admire you for calling! :nw:

I feel that with the photos of old New York etc. we have perhaps just peeked back into the past and perhaps that's all we can do.

Btw, those are great photos/videos you posted. I found them not only helpful in offering context/perspective with the case, but they're fascinating on their own. :tu:

Yeah, a peek might be all we can get. :td:

Still, I'd previously only considered Hurd's last known direction of travel and so I went back and looked again at the location of the accident and I observed that it was three blocks (as they're currently situated) from the East River. Of course, I also noted that the location was a far cry from what it was at the time (elevated railway structure?) :unsure2:

Edited by regi
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Vincennes

More computer problems all day.... :no: Anyway, I'm not a New Yorker by any means but I assumed they mean something like the El trains in Chicago. In fact, I don't remember what set of pictures its in. I believe the second there is a picture of just a few blocks north of where the accident was and there railway supports.

The report we have says that he drove away but it doesn't really say which direction. I even wondered how they gathered up those witnesses. It reads as if the accident were minor and doesn't mention police being called to the scene but how else in New York would they have gone back and gathered up witnesses who were on the scene at 9:00 at night the previous day ? It always read to me as if he just got at looked at the damage, wasn't really injured and got back in his car. So, just which way did he drive off ? We need to reinterview.... whoops ! We are just a little late.

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Regi

.

The report we have says that he drove away but it doesn't really say which direction. I even wondered how they gathered up those witnesses. It reads as if the accident were minor and doesn't mention police being called to the scene but how else in New York would they have gone back and gathered up witnesses who were on the scene at 9:00 at night the previous day ? It always read to me as if he just got at looked at the damage, wasn't really injured and got back in his car. So, just which way did he drive off ?

Good points!

We've been thinking along the same lines....I've been wondering where that accident info. comes from because it does come across as though the police may not have been at the scene.

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petermattson

The report we have says that he drove away but it doesn't really say which direction. I even wondered how they gathered up those witnesses. It reads as if the accident were minor and doesn't mention police being called to the scene but how else in New York would they have gone back and gathered up witnesses who were on the scene at 9:00 at night the previous day ? It always read to me as if he just got at looked at the damage, wasn't really injured and got back in his car. So, just which way did he drive off ? We need to reinterview.... whoops ! We are just a little late.

.

Good points!

We've been thinking along the same lines....I've been wondering where that accident info. comes from because it does come across as though the police may not have been at the scene.

I have confirmation from Charles' granddaughter that she got the accident info from a police report. Someone must have called or an officer must have been driving by. The police report must not contain much info and when you think about it, of course it wouldn't for a minor one-car accident where the driver wasn't hurt. They didn't know he was about to disappear!

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Regi

I have confirmation from Charles' granddaughter that she got the accident info from a police report. Someone must have called or an officer must have been driving by. The police report must not contain much info and when you think about it, of course it wouldn't for a minor one-car accident where the driver wasn't hurt. They didn't know he was about to disappear!

I'm curious about where the police report came from if not from the case file. (I would think that the case file would contain that particular info..)

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petermattson

I'm not sure I'll really have time to do this any time soon, but if anyone is interested in contacting the NYPD Cold Case Squad regarding Charles...

First, from the Restless Sleep website, some tips on what information to have before you call.

http://www.therestlesssleep.com/?page_id=366

Here is the contact info:

New York City Police Department

Cold Case Squad

(718) 834-2777

coldcase@nypd.org

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Vincennes

I'm not sure I'll really have time to do this any time soon, but if anyone is interested in contacting the NYPD Cold Case Squad regarding Charles...

First, from the Restless Sleep website, some tips on what information to have before you call.

http://www.therestle...om/?page_id=366

Here is the contact info:

New York City Police Department

Cold Case Squad

(718) 834-2777

coldcase@nypd.org

I'll try on Monday. However, I did once before and all I got into was a labyrinth of voice mail directions. But I'll try.

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Regi

My line of thinking in post #97 is that if there was an actual accident report, then investigators would have gone back to learn as much as they could about what was the last known sighting.

They'd certainly learn how it was that an officer came upon the scene and determine if his sighting was the last.

The info. that Hurd was seen leaving the restaurant doesn't seem necessary if the accident was actually documented.

Edited by regi
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