The Ten Cannots

[spacecowboy342]

Most ultra rich approach politicians with bribes. That's kind of human nature to try and persuade others for your own benefit. I never said it is right. What I said is that the spinelss politicians accept the bribes and set the policies. No matter how you spin it, in the end it is the politicians who are ultimately to blame.

Helping others is a decision of morale. It is always a terrible idea to make that a law. Ohhh, I just seen you are asking for reparations. No, I do not feel such responsibilities to make up for the actions of racists that lived 200 years ago. Why the hell would I? That's absurd. One, because neither myself, anyone in my family or anyone alive today was involved in such things. Two, neither were you or anyone you know. I do not feel guilty for not paying up for the sins of my great great great great great ancestors who, btw, were living somewhere in Eastern Europe while all these things in America were happening so therefor they have no racist American sins to be guilty of themselves.

I didn't say everyone rich got there on their own. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I'm no fan of spoiled rich brats that don't appreciate what they have but in no way am I angry about them either. Some people just have it made, some don't. I'm not angry that I have to work for a living. It's just the way things are.

I didn't say everyone else is lazy. I said giving them stuff will make them lazy. I also said it's not your neighbors responsibility to put food on your table. It's yours. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life.

So you're American Indian huh? The one race I always give a pass to when it comes to complaining about the past. But you are doing something other than complaining. You are demanding people today pay for mistakes two and a half centuries old. What's reasonable about that. Don't native Americans get free college tuition and all kinds of government grants and basically everything they can ask for there just for asking? I might be wrong but... If you are pure native I highly doubt you'd be wealthy if things had gone differently. You more than likely would be living a life of hunting and gathering if your culture wasn't upheaved. Again though, don't mistake me not feeling guilty for lacking empathy. I know shltty things happened but I didn't do it.

You are wrong. I am asking for nothing. There is nothing that could be done. The past is the past, and I'm not trying to make this a race issue. I think a society is judged not by it's wealthiest class but by how it treats it's poorest. Perhaps it isn't fair to ask the rich to care about helping the poor, but who else can? And no not all native American' get everything for free, just those who are tribal members in good standing. And aren't those the kind of things you are whining about paying for?I, personally, have never been on welfare and don't intend to be as long as my hands can still do work. I make a decent living and have never wanted more. But there are ultra-rich who pay a smaller tax rate than I do. As far as politicians being to blame, who can blame them for accepting free money. I would just like to see a safety net so nobody goes hungry and nobody sleeps in the cold. The middle class shouldn't have to pay for this on their own. BTW the Cherokee and Choctaw weren't hunter-gatherers but farmers already economically integrated in there regions when there farms were taken Edited August 27, 2013 by spacecowboy342

[Jeremiah65]

But Greece was not a complete democracy or are we....they were a Republic....and so are we...and we must never lose sight of "why" a Republic is the best....

It must be a Republic!....for in a Republic, the voices of the many, the few and even the one are heard....in a Democracy...the mob rules....crushing the few and the one into silence...that is not the world I want to live in and is not the world the most brilliant minds across history imagined.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Jeremiah65

[Space Commander Travis]

Yeah I know a lot of wisdom in there. Just take your time and digest it slowly. you'll get there.

So wisdom = allowing the rich to do whatever they feel is necessary to protect themselves?

Those all sound like those ghastly "self help" mottos that were all the rage back in the 19th c. No wonder American Capitalism is dying if it still uses facile slogans as a basis for how it feels economic policy should be organised.

[Space Commander Travis]

But Greece was not a complete democracy or are we....they were a Republic....and so are we...and we must never lose sight of "why" a Republic is the best....

It must be a Republic!....for in a Republic, the voices of the many, the few and even the one are heard....in a Democracy...the mob rules....crushing the few and the one into silence...that is not the world I want to live in and is not the world the most brilliant minds across history imagined.

Good point, although I'd still go for no central govt. at all, in a political sense at any rate. At least, a Government that's not run by career politicians, whose only interest is keeping themselves in Power.

[Kowalski]

Don't get me wrong, I understand that some people really do need welfare, and help until they get back on their feet, and that's fine. But, the majority (walking into a Health and Human Resources Office is quite enlightening in that respect) are lazy, and don't want to work. And it's a generational thing too, because their parents did it, so they know how to play the system. Fraud is a lot more rampant then people think.

Did you know 1 in 7 Americans are on Food Stamps?

Link: http://abcnews.go.co...+on+food+stamps

Welfare is really Fabian Socialism, in disguise...

The Fabian Plan for gradual Socialist Revolution was as definitive as it possibly could be, to say it has been a conspiracy is simplistic in the extreme. It instituted a widespread educational program for its leadership and its minions, as time progressed, it opened schools, such as the London School of Economics, and the New School of Social Research.

One stroke of genius was that instead of advocating a Socialist State, they assisted in the implementation of the Welfare State, which as we should all know is merely a few steps away from a purely Socialistic State. It was, of course, implemented gradually, and played upon the weaknesses of human nature to gain popularity. Unlike the usual Socialist points of views, the Fabians didn't advocate complete State ownership of businesses, industry, agriculture or land, instead they sought to involve the State into very specific areas of importance such as electric power production, transportation, precious metals and of course, credit. The remaining balance of economic systems would be left to the private sector however; it would be highly regulated by the State and operated according to the wishes of the State.

Now, make no mistake about it, Fabian Socialists are Statist, they are absolutely authoritarian in their philosophy. Their long-term goal has always been a Socialistic Dictatorship with full-imposition of a very legalistic society where the individual is simply a part of the collective. An example of this can be found in the writings of one of the founders of the Fabian Society, George Bernard Shaw speaking of the Socialist Utopia, he said: "Under Socialism, you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If it were discovered that you had not the character and industry enough to be worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner; but whilst you were permitted to live, you would have to live well."

Link: http://www.nolanchar...-come-true.html

Edited August 27, 2013 by Kowalski

[spacecowboy342]

Don't get me wrong, I understand that some people really do need welfare, and help until they get back on their feet, and that's fine. But, the majority (walking into a Health and Human Resources Office is quite enlightening in that respect) are lazy, and don't want to work. And it's a generational thing too, because their parents did it, so they know how to play the system. Fraud is a lot more rampant then people think.

Did you know 1 in 7 Americans are on Food Stamps?

Link: http://abcnews.go.co...+on+food+stamps

Welfare is really Fabian Socialism, in disguise...

[/size]

Link: http://www.nolanchar...-come-true.html

I can see where being forced to eat and sleep in a warm bed could be hell on earth. So what would be your replacement? Social Darwinism where the successful eat while the rest are free to starve on the street? Sounds like a Dickens story from 19th century England. I agree fraud is an issue. For any system there will always be those to exploit it. I would favor work programs over handouts. I'm not sure about your point about it being generational. That may be the case sometimes but I doubt it is as prevalent as you claim. I'm glad you recognise that there are those who truly need help. I've heard the figure bandied about that 47% of America are non-productive welfare abusers and that is BS. The only way to get to a figure like that is to include children and the aged and students and non-working housewives. I'm no socialist(well maybe I'm close) but I would like to see socialized health care like in Canada and most of the civilized world. There are old people today who have to decide between eating and buying medicine and this is wrong. I know some see being forced to get free healthcare as tyrannical but I'm sure they'll get over it

[Jeremiah65]

Don't get me wrong, I understand that some people really do need welfare, and help until they get back on their feet, and that's fine. But, the majority (walking into a Health and Human Resources Office is quite enlightening in that respect) are lazy, and don't want to work. And it's a generational thing too, because their parents did it, so they know how to play the system. Fraud is a lot more rampant then people think.

Did you know 1 in 7 Americans are on Food Stamps?

Link: http://abcnews.go.co...+on+food+stamps

Welfare is really Fabian Socialism, in disguise...

[/size]

Link: http://www.nolanchar...-come-true.html

Better watch out Kowalski....you'll be called a racist or a baby killer cause you don't want to feed the welfare babies.

I agree. I actually have a kind and humanitarian heart...I hate to see people suffer. I hate to see people in terrible places. But we have to look no further than our own GOV for causing this. They are not looking to help raise people out of poverty...they are looking to get them hooked and dependent so they do what they are told and vote for the people that will continue the cycle. This is a fact....those that do not agree...well "there are none so blind as those that will not see".

I avoid large crowds of people because I can see pain and suffering in the eyes of people and it makes me very uncomfortable....I have a weirdness about me...I don't like to look strangers in the eyes because it tells me more than I really want to know. I don't mean to sound cold hearted because it is the exact opposite of that....I see their hurt and it breaks my heart so I try to not see it.

I know a benevolent GOV sounds so Utopian to some...but it is never that way...that is not how it works....they want you to have just enough to survive and vote....prosperity and happiness are not even in the equation.

If a person needs food stamps or welfare to get through a rough spot...I am fine with that. Before I moved, my daughter and I used to collect bread from bakeries at closing time and deliver it to the homeless shelter and the soup kitchen at like 11:00 at night....bread was the only thing we could legally collect. Another stupid law...but...we did what we could do.

I am not a hater or a hurtful person...I see all kinds of things wrong and common sense and kindness are amazingly missing.....

oh well...rant over.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Jeremiah65

[F3SS]

You are wrong. I am asking for nothing. There is nothing that could be done. The past is the past, and I'm not trying to make this a race issue. I think a society is judged not by it's wealthiest class but by how it treats it's poorest. Perhaps it isn't fair to ask the rich to care about helping the poor, but who else can? And no not all native American' get everything for free, just those who are tribal members in good standing. And aren't those the kind of things you are whining about paying for?I, personally, have never been on welfare and don't intend to be as long as my hands can still do work. I make a decent living and have never wanted more. But there are ultra-rich who pay a smaller tax rate than I do. As far as politicians being to blame, who can blame them for accepting free money. I would just like to see a safety net so nobody goes hungry and nobody sleeps in the cold. The middle class shouldn't have to pay for this on their own. BTW the Cherokee and Choctaw weren't hunter-gatherers but farmers already economically integrated in there regions when there farms were taken

Not trying to make it about race? Then what's this?

You feel no responsibility to help those disenfranchised by racist policies of the past?

What do our poor not have access to? Really? There are safety nets o'plenty. Food stamps, welfare, WIC, medicaid, federally aided car payments, free phones, free ID's, EBT cards loaded with cash to withdrawal and many more. Then there are charities and homeless shelters. Most of our poor have a car and a TV and a roof and a cell phone. If that's what you call not taking care of the poor I don't know what to tell you. Most of our poor would be seen as well-off people in many other countries.

I think you are confused about the rich and their tax rates. They surely pay a higher income tax than you. Investment tax rates are the number the MSM has got you fixated on, deceitfully so. And if you're going to rag on corporations who get away without paying taxes I ask you to look once more to the politicians who made those tax codes law. Who can blame them for accepting free money? Well that's forgiving of you. Who could blame the rich for taking advantage of what's legally available to them? Aside, there is a big difference between a greedy rich citizen and an elected representative of the people. They are most certainly, and rightfully, held to different standards. I expect integrity and moral character from an elected official. I'm not stupid, I don't truly expect it but I should and so should you.

Are those the sort of things I don't like paying for? Sort of. I understand the need for a helping hand. I do not understand the need to take from one and give to another just because. See, we already have all the things in place you want and are acting as if don't exist. Sounds to me like you want social justice and socialism. Those are two terrible ideas, especially the former. The latter is only a good idea for small populations with little variation in culture and is a terrible idea for the gigantic United States and its gazillion different cultures. Not to mention it's an incentive killer, a demotivator and a freedom crusher. It ain't for US. Anyways, about stuff I don't mind paying for... I tend to turn a blind eye to what we entitle the native Americans to. They have the truest gripe. First, there aren't an economy crushing amount of them dipping into the stash. Second, I think it has most to do with character. They seam far more humble. You don't see them on TV and news sites day after day b****ng and moaning about the past and you especially never hear them asking for more and more. The got a raw deal back then, no doubt.

Here, I got it... You know who I like helping out the most? People that appreciate it and people who don't take advantage of my giving nature.

[StarMountainKid]

About $59 billion is spent on traditional social welfare programs. $92 billion is spent on corporate subsidies. So, the government spent 50% more on corporate welfare than it did on food stamps and housing assistance in 2006.

http://thinkbynumber...are-statistics/

The combined wealth of the top 120 Americans = 1 trillion dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

My point is, those who have leverage in guiding the U.S. economy are not the middle class or below. This is not a level playing field for the majority of Americans.

[Kowalski]

I agree. I actually have a kind and humanitarian heart...I hate to see people suffer. I hate to see people in terrible places. But we have to look no further than our own GOV for causing this. They are not looking to help raise people out of poverty...they are looking to get them hooked and dependent so they do what they are told and vote for the people that will continue the cycle. This is a fact....those that do not agree...well "there are none so blind as those that will not see".

Basically, yeah that's what they do. They only give enough so people don't starve, but not enough to get ahead....

Welfare, socialized medicine.... reminds me of that clip in Braveheart, where William Wallace (Mel Gibson) said to Robert the Bruce (Angus MacFayden): "Your all squabbling for the scraps from Longshanks table, that you've missed your God given right to something better." Sums it up for me....

[F3SS]

http://thinkbynumber...are-statistics/

The combined wealth of the top 120 Americans = 1 trillion dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

My point is, those who have leverage in guiding the U.S. economy are not the middle class or below. This is not a level playing field for the majority of Americans.

I don't feel like a number crunching debate but I could ask what happens to the middle class if the corporations don't get their money? It dissipates because jobs become scarce. It's all a big mess no matter what. Too much government involvement. Flat tax/fair tax combo for corporations, fair tax for citizens. Eliminate the 90,000 page tax code and the IRS. No more loop holes. No more complaining. No more bail outs.

Basically, yeah that's what they do. They only give enough so people don't starve, but not enough to get ahead....

Welfare, socialized medicine.... reminds me of that clip in Braveheart, where William Wallace (Mel Gibson) said to Robert the Bruce (Angus MacFayden): "Your all squabbling for the scraps from Longshanks table, that you've missed your God given right to something better." Sums it up for me....

FREEEEEEEDDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!

[spacecowboy342]

Not trying to make it about race? Then what's this?

What do our poor not have access to? Really? There are safety nets o'plenty. Food stamps, welfare, WIC, medicaid, federally aided car payments, free phones, free ID's, EBT cards loaded with cash to withdrawal and many more. Then there are charities and homeless shelters. Most of our poor have a car and a TV and a roof and a cell phone. If that's what you call not taking care of the poor I don't know what to tell you. Most of our poor would be seen as well-off people in many other countries.

I think you are confused about the rich and their tax rates. They surely pay a higher income tax than you. Investment tax rates are the number the MSM has got you fixated on, deceitfully so. And if you're going to rag on corporations who get away without paying taxes I ask you to look once more to the politicians who made those tax codes law. Who can blame them for accepting free money? Well that's forgiving of you. Who could blame the rich for taking advantage of what's legally available to them? Aside, there is a big difference between a greedy rich citizen and an elected representative of the people. They are most certainly, and rightfully, held to different standards. I expect integrity and moral character from an elected official. I'm not stupid, I don't truly expect it but I should and so should you.

Are those the sort of things I don't like paying for? Sort of. I understand the need for a helping hand. I do not understand the need to take from one and give to another just because. See, we already have all the things in place you want and are acting as if don't exist. Sounds to me like you want social justice and socialism. Those are two terrible ideas, especially the former. The latter is only a good idea for small populations with little variation in culture and is a terrible idea for the gigantic United States and its gazillion different cultures. Not to mention it's an incentive killer, a demotivator and a freedom crusher. It ain't for US. Anyways, about stuff I don't mind paying for... I tend to turn a blind eye to what we entitle the native Americans to. They have the truest gripe. First, there aren't an economy crushing amount of them dipping into the stash. Second, I think it has most to do with character. They seam far more humble. You don't see them on TV and news sites day after day b****ng and moaning about the past and you especially never hear them asking for more and more. The got a raw deal back then, no doubt.

Here, I got it... You know who I like helping out the most? People that appreciate it and people who don't take advantage of my giving nature.

Yeah safety nets which you are all whining about and wanting to tear down

[RavenHawk]

No one is asking for things to be handed to them but for the rich to whine about being taxed to feed the poor irks me especially when they don't mind coming to the gov't with their hats in their hands looking for huge bailouts when their greed blows up in their faces

Seems like I miss the good parts when this thread really got going. So I’m not sure what more I can add, but since this was a response to me, I’ll in turn respond.

Oh yes, they are. As soon as you start demanding that the rich take care of the poor. Isn’t that one of the 10 Commandments? Thou shall not covet… Who says that what the rich are taxed goes to feed to poor? The government covets the wealth of the rich and squanders it. That is what the rich whine about because it is waste. Many wealthy do give to charity but the best charity that the wealthy can give is to use their wealth wisely to build and re-invest with. Passing out dole squanders the wealth as representative in the parable of the talents. Wealth does no one any good when it is wasted.

[spacecowboy342]

Seems like I miss the good parts when this thread really got going. So I'm not sure what more I can add, but since this was a response to me, I'll in turn respond.

Oh yes, they are. As soon as you start demanding that the rich take care of the poor. Isn't that one of the 10 Commandments? Thou shall not covet… Who says that what the rich are taxed goes to feed to poor? The government covets the wealth of the rich and squanders it. That is what the rich whine about because it is waste. Many wealthy do give to charity but the best charity that the wealthy can give is to use their wealth wisely to build and re-invest with. Passing out dole squanders the wealth as representative in the parable of the talents. Wealth does no one any good when it is wasted.

Whatever. Fine let the poor starve. More resources to divide up between the deserving right?

[Zaphod222]

I stand by my comment. As the rich get richer and corporate profits rise, what happens to average American's income?

In that case, unlike your naive, misguided slogan suggests, the average American`s (or everybodys) income rises.

Alas, the current intelligentsia, media, and ruling party does not get that, either.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Zaphod222

[Jeremiah65]

But we have such a profound difference of opinion in this country....so many do not know what true freedom would allow them to do so they are terrified.....paralyzed into inaction and scrambling for a "safe" answer.

William Wallce was absolutely correct and that message needs to ring out....the bulk of people are killing each other for scraps from a table of monsters...those that have twisted the system to serve their own ends and do not care for one moment about the future of humanity.

I care about the future of humanity. I still have silly fantasies about reaching the stars....about colonizing alien worlds...about our species lasting....forever.

This closed system that we are functioning does not allow for that....it does not allow for true ingenuity and cleverness (not without a price tag)...it is not built for the bettering of our species....but it is built so that the few might reign over and prosper from the sweat of the many....

That is not freedom....that is not capitalism....that is a tilted table and a twisted fate....one that I still believe can be overcome.

I was a fan of Star Trek...I admit it....I am not a die hard fan that dresses up and acts a fool....BUT....there was something in the message of "extinguishing greed"....that struck me....once we can get past greed....our species limits are boundless. We can do this...if we really want to....

The ugly is always going to be there....we have a lot of ugly to overcome...but I truly think and believe we have the capacity to do it...I am just not sure how to start it. I hope what I have done raising my kids will help...and they can raise their and so on....and eventually we will learn that greed and gluttony are NOT good qualities of humanity....the search for knowledge and the betterment of mankind and his longevity....is all that truly matters....what you have in a bank account...the art stored in a vault....the personal wealth you have obtained....does not add diddly squat to the future of humanity....only freedom to pursue opportunity does....

Edited August 27, 2013 by Jeremiah65

[Kowalski]

I don't feel like a number crunching debate but I could ask what happens to the middle class if the corporations don't get their money? It dissipates because jobs become scarce. It's all a big mess no matter what. Too much government involvement. Flat tax/fair tax combo for corporations, fair tax for citizens. Eliminate the 90,000 page tax code and the IRS. No more loop holes. No more complaining. No more bail outs.

A Flat/Fair Tax would be wonderful.

FREEEEEEEDDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!

Now I wanna go put some blue war paint on...

[spacecowboy342]

A Flat/Fair Tax would be wonderful.

Now I wanna go put some blue war paint on...

A flat tax isn't fair as it burdens the have-nots more than the haves, which is the right wing agenda

[Kowalski]

William Wallce was absolutely correct and that message needs to ring out....the bulk of people are killing each other for scraps from a table of monsters...those that have twisted the system to serve their own ends and do not care for one moment about the future of humanity.

They throw meager scraps such as socialized healthcare, and welfare to us, then propagate it to be something "so wonderful" and we're supposed to clap our hands and go "Yes, Massa", "Your so kind Massa". ..

[spacecowboy342]

They throw meager scraps such as socialized healthcare, and welfare to us, then propagate it to be something "so wonderful" and we're supposed to clap our hands and go "Yes, Massa", "Your so kind Massa". ..

As opposed to us saying that to you our betters, right? I can see how that might be unsettling

[Jeremiah65]

Spacecowboy342....you need to hush and learn...your socialist agenda is not going to serve anyone well....how did Lenin's wonderful world work out? How did Mao's agenda work out?....How about Castro....????

Death tolls into unimaginable numbers.....and you are ok with that......

Socialism and communism just do not work.....

Mao killed somewhere between 30 and 50 million people as his cultural revolution took place.....Lenin's numbers are pretty much the same.....never mind what Stalin did.....Castro....well it's a small island and the population is not near the same....but Castro killed millions of his own people.....is that your answer....death to the disagreeing? In Cambodia, the death toll is still being calculated....

Those that long for socialism and communism seriously need to see raw history....they are the absolute ugliest things that have ever happened. The corruption these systems allow is unimaginable....

I will digress and say that Soviet socialism...aka...communism....is not the same as socialism in the most noteworthy examples of successful socialism....aka...the Nordic examples....Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden....they have had a remarkable run as socialist societies and have done wonderfully well....more power to them.....BUT. They work in a unique environment and have small populations.....it does not work elsewhere as it does there.

There is no easy answer to the worlds ailments....oh wait...yes there is....freedom....Liberty....Human beings can find a way if you let them....but we don't.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Jeremiah65

[spacecowboy342]

Spacecowboy342....you need to hush and learn...your socialist agenda is not going to serve anyone well....how did Lenin's wonderful world work out? How did Mao's agenda work out?....How about Castro....????

Death tolls into unimaginable numbers.....and you are ok with that......

Socialism and communism just do not work.....

Mao killed somewhere between 30 and 50 million people as his cultural revolution took place.....Lenin's numbers are pretty much the same.....never mind what Stalin did.....Castro....well it's a small island and the population is not near the same....but Castro killed millions of his own people.....is that your answer....death to the disagreeing? In Cambodia, the death toll is still being calculated....

Those that long for socialism and communism seriously need to see raw history....they are the absolute ugliest things that have ever happened. The corruption these systems allow is unimaginable....

I will digress and say that Soviet socialism...aka...communism....is not the same as socialism in the most noteworthy examples of successful socialism....aka...the Nordic examples....Finland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden....they have had a remarkable run as socialist societies and have done wonderfully well....more power to them.....BUT. They work in a unique environment and have small populations.....it does not work elsewhere as it does there.

There is no easy answer to the worlds ailments....oh wait...yes there is....freedom....Liberty....Human beings can find a way if you let them....but we don't.

Yeah that's right anyone who advocates feeding the poor is a communist. Look at the conditions in 19th century England for your capitalist ideal. Next time the greed of bankers blows up and they come looking for bailouts just remember we don't help people around here. Liberty right. Freedom for the rich to exploit anyone they want.And how do you know it wouldn't work here? You nazis would never give it a try

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Yeah that's right anyone who advocates feeding the poor is a communist. Look at the conditions in 19th century England for your capitalist ideal. Next time the greed of bankers blows up and they come looking for bailouts just remember we don't help people around here. Liberty right. Freedom for the rich to exploit anyone they want.And how do you know it wouldn't work here? You nazis would never give it a try

It won't work in America (or anywhere beyond a village level) because how do I (for example) trade my skills as a teacher for something like a book?

In a village it'd work because my actions benefit the village (ie I'm teaching the local's kids) but on a wider scale, why should someone on the East Coast care what I'm doing in the rural boondoggles and reward my effort with someone they've created as nothing from what I do directly benefits them?

Edited August 27, 2013 by Sir Wearer of Hats

[spacecowboy342]

It won't work in America (or anywhere beyond a village level) because how do I (for example) trade my skills as a teacher for something like a book?

In a village it'd work because my actions benefit the village (ie I'm teaching the local's kids) but on a wider scale, why should someone on the East Coast care what I'm doing in the rural boondoggles and reward my effort with someone they've created as nothing from what I do directly benefits them?

i'm not advocating giving up money or even capitalism despite what all of you seem to think. Just a safety net so that no one goes hungry or sleeps in the cold or has to die from some treatable disease because they can't afford health care. Sorry if that infringes on any ones precious liberty

[MiskatonicGrad]

A flat tax isn't fair as it burdens the have-nots more than the haves, which is the right wing agenda

Really it seems to me when a certain presidential candidate was running on the flat tax platform and everybody was crunching the numbers it turned out a flat tax would cause the rich to pay less and the poor to pay something( which is more than they pay now) and the next thing you know his candidacy got swept under the rug.

why is the left so much against the rich I don't see George Soros handing out all of his money in guilt? We don't have a level playing field in America and never will as long as the government hands out my hard earned tax money to a bunch of free loaders who are bribed into voting for the democrats.