The Ten Cannots

[Leonardo]

It won't work in America (or anywhere beyond a village level) because how do I (for example) trade my skills as a teacher for something like a book?

In a village it'd work because my actions benefit the village (ie I'm teaching the local's kids) but on a wider scale, why should someone on the East Coast care what I'm doing in the rural boondoggles and reward my effort with someone they've created as nothing from what I do directly benefits them?

Because of something called money. Which comes about because we set a 'price' on things. Not because of any particular system of socio-economic control.

In any system where things are commodities with a price, people will accumulate to gain contorl so they can accumulate more. It plays into a fundamental part of our psychology, and not one of the good parts.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

i'm not advocating giving up money or even capitalism despite what all of you seem to think. Just a safety net so that no one goes hungry or sleeps in the cold or has to die from some treatable disease because they can't afford health care. Sorry if that infringes on any ones precious liberty

Matey, I'm Australian. the things your fellow American call evil Socialisms are things we take for granted.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Because of something called money. Which comes about because we set a 'price' on things. Not because of any particular system of socio-economic control.

In any system where things are commodities with a price, people will accumulate to gain contorl so they can accumulate more. It plays into a fundamental part of our psychology, and not one of the good parts.

We're talking about Communism deary, there's no money in a Communist utopia.

[MiskatonicGrad]

i'm not advocating giving up money or even capitalism despite what all of you seem to think. Just a safety net so that no one goes hungry or sleeps in the cold or has to die from some treatable disease because they can't afford health care. Sorry if that infringes on any ones precious liberty

It is not that we feel this infringes on our liberty. it's just if the government and all men would live by these 10 rules I feel there would be more opportunity and motivation for people to take care of themselves instead of waiting for someone to take care of them or waiting for the next handout

[spacecowboy342]

Really it seems to me when a certain presidential candidate was running on the flat tax platform and everybody was crunching the numbers it turned out a flat tax would cause the rich to pay less and the poor to pay something( which is more than they pay now) and the next thing you know his candidacy got swept under the rug.

why is the left so much against the rich I don't see George Soros handing out all of his money in guilt? We don't have a level playing field in America and never will as long as the government hands out my hard earned tax money to a bunch of free loaders who are bribed into voting for the democrats.

I don't know who told you that the poor pay nothing. There are many working poor who pay payroll taxes. I'm not against the rich. Enterprise and excellence do deserve to be rewarded, but the rich should pay there share and stop whining. Right now the middle class bear most of the burden. Yes fraud should be rooted out and prosecuted and yes I would rather see job training than free handouts but if we are really worried about balancing the budget how about cutting defense which is over the top and out of control. And all those freeloaders are a right wing myth. Sure there are some but most are working poor and those who would work given a chance

[spacecowboy342]

It is not that we feel this infringes on our liberty. it's just if the government and all men would live by these 10 rules I feel there would be more opportunity and motivation for people to take care of themselves instead of waiting for someone to take care of them or waiting for the next handout

I would absolutely agree with you if the disenfranchised at least had educational oppurtunities equal or at least analagous to those enjoyed by the priviliged class.How about free state college for everyone?

[Leonardo]

We're talking about Communism deary, there's no money in a Communist utopia.

Who's we?

You may be talking about communism, but spacecowboy is referring to socialism. Note his comments...

Yeah that's right anyone who advocates feeding the poor is a communist.

and...

i'm not advocating giving up money or even capitalism despite what all of you seem to think. Just a safety net...

Edited August 27, 2013 by Leonardo

[Leonardo]

Kowalski, are you liking everyone's posts just to stir up trouble? Lol!

[Kowalski]

Kowalski, are you liking everyone's posts just to stir up trouble? Lol!

Yes!

(evil laugh) MHAWHAHWHAW!

[MiskatonicGrad]

I would absolutely agree with you if the disenfranchised at least had educational oppurtunities equal or at least analagous to those enjoyed by the priviliged class.How about free state college for everyone?

I would agree with you if all the graduates of our already free and unconstitutional public school system were worth the paper their diploma is printed on.

[Jeremiah65]

Yeah that's right anyone who advocates feeding the poor is a communist. Look at the conditions in 19th century England for your capitalist ideal. Next time the greed of bankers blows up and they come looking for bailouts just remember we don't help people around here. Liberty right. Freedom for the rich to exploit anyone they want.And how do you know it wouldn't work here? You nazis would never give it a try

OMG....you totally missed the point didn't you?

The small, successful countries that have done well with a socialist/communist stylism have done so because all the people need each other....in a world where you have only 5 bakers...you need your bakers....when you have 5 million bakers....well....if one dies of so what.....this is human nature friend...this is reality.

You can cuss and fuss about the wealthy.......well **** them.....they will eventually die off and their unequipped to follow progeny will feed that wealth back into the population....another fact.

You seem to be missing the part where society changes.....the wealthy rise and they fall....just like Rome....but if it is managed correctly....it is a minor setback.....however.....when the GOV gets too big and Too powerful....then as the wealthy collapse...so does GOV and then we are headed to another dark age that might take hundreds of years to recover from....or maybe not.

You don't seem to be one that has seriously studied the stumbles and faults of our forefathers....they did great things....and they made monumental errors....should we just keep repeating the patterns of the past or should we say 'wait one damn minute....we have done this before and it never worked out well....let us do something different"

I appreciate humanity in ways I cannot ever describe on this forum and not look like a lunatic.....I recently had a thing with drugs and beer that made me look like a moron....oh well....I am still here and I still have a message...regardless of how bad I looked.....freedom....the freedom and liberty to be your own boss.....the freedom to sell your sweat and mental product....that is all that really matters....you choose the price....you choose the market...my God the simplicity is astounding and yet so many refuse to see...let the sheep croon.....it is a very simple answer....

Edited August 27, 2013 by Jeremiah65

[spacecowboy342]

I would agree with you if all the graduates of our already free and unconstitutional public school system were worth the paper their diploma is printed on.

Well. you do have a point there.Republican solution:do away with programs like head start and free lunches for poor kids.Kudos

[MiskatonicGrad]

what the crap is the privileged class that must be some of that left-wing talk ( you broke rule #7) I went to a public school with kids who parents were anything from doctors to ditch diggers. yes in some instances the rich have better opportunites but I think the percentage is smaller than the left thinks it is. and again there are still rich democrats so that kind of invalidates all of the lefts argument against the rich.

[MiskatonicGrad]

Well. you do have a point there.Republican solution:do away with programs like head start and free lunches for poor kids.Kudos

I never said I was a republican? really I was just questioning the constitutionality of the public school system. But you do have a hard time seeing the point.

[F3SS]

Yeah safety nets which you are all whining about and wanting to tear down

Not really but they're still here so what are you complaining about?

Whatever. Fine let the poor starve. More resources to divide up between the deserving right?

Ahh, argument losing liberalisms.

A flat tax isn't fair as it burdens the have-nots more than the haves, which is the right wing agenda

Ahh, argument losing liberalisms.

what the crap is the privileged class that must be some of that left-wing talk ( you broke rule #7) I went to a public school with kids who parents were anything from doctors to ditch diggers. yes in some instances the rich have better opportunites but I think the percentage is smaller than the left thinks it is. and again there are still rich democrats so that kind of invalidates all of the lefts argument against the rich.

It is left speak. They use that a lot. It is supposed to make people believe there is a class system that you are born into and cannot escape from. Well you know it's wrong. The rich can get poor and the poor can get rich in America. In a class system that is simply not the case. This guy is a lost cause. He is sucked up in the rhetoric of class warfare. Nothing is fair to him unless the rich are doing all the paying.

[spartan max2]

I just want to point out that the more power we give to government gives corporations more power.

We give them tons of money= they bail out corporations

We let the government hand out grants= Giving money to their cooperate "friends"

Government gives companies subsides Which means more money

The more taxes we have the harder it is for a small business to have enough money to expand.

Its funny how the big government crowd hates corporations yet big government and corporations go hand in hand.

. No amount of regulation is going to stop government from being corrupt. Money will buy them out. So the answer is to not let the government have as much money and make the government have less power.

Edited August 28, 2013 by spartan max2

[spartan max2]

Edited August 28, 2013 by spartan max2

[spacecowboy342]

I never said I was a republican? really I was just questioning the constitutionality of the public school system. But you do have a hard time seeing the point.

I never said you were a republican just that that was the republican solution to improve public schools.Oh. and firing Big Bird. On what basis would you challenge the constitutionality of public schools? I hadn't heard of that before. Do you not think it in the public interest to educate our children? I have heard it said that income tax is unconstitutional which, I think, might be correct

[spacecowboy342]

I just want to point out that the more power we give to government gives corporations more power.

We give them tons of money= they bail out corporations

We let the government hand out grants= Giving money to their cooperate "friends"

Government gives companies subsides Which means more money

The more taxes we have the harder it is for a small business to have enough money to expand.

Its funny how the big government crowd hates corporations yet big government and corporations go hand in hand.

. No amount of regulation is going to stop government from being corrupt. Money will buy them out. So the answer is to not let the government have as much money and make the government have less power.

Or perhaps we could outlaw lobbiests and political donations and go back to being a republic instead of an oligarchy

[MiskatonicGrad]

I never said you were a republican just that that was the republican solution to improve public schools.Oh. and firing Big Bird. On what basis would you challenge the constitutionality of public schools? I hadn't heard of that before. Do you not think it in the public interest to educate our children? I have heard it said that income tax is unconstitutional which, I think, might be correct

Anything not mentioned in the constitution is unconstitutional "Gasp" I know if you look at the word it almost makes sense. if the government has control of what you learn they control everything "Gasp"

If you look at when this country started it's downward spiral and when the federal government started controlling the education system the lights start coming on. take baby steps you don't want to digest it all at once you'll turn into a conspiracy theorist one of the useless ones not the helpful ones.

[Kowalski]

I never said you were a republican just that that was the republican solution to improve public schools.Oh. and firing Big Bird. On what basis would you challenge the constitutionality of public schools? I hadn't heard of that before. Do you not think it in the public interest to educate our children? I have heard it said that income tax is unconstitutional which, I think, might be correct

I know this is a wild a crazy idea, but how about you educate and teach your own kids???

[spacecowboy342]

Anything not mentioned in the constitution is unconstitutional "Gasp" I know if you look at the word it almost makes sense. if the government has control of what you learn they control everything "Gasp"

If you look at when this country started it's downward spiral and when the federal government started controlling the education system the lights start coming on. take baby steps you don't want to digest it all at once you'll turn into a conspiracy theorist one of the useless ones not the helpful ones.

If you are a strict constructionist. It could also be argued anything not expressly forbidden is allowed. So then what only those with money get educations?Yeah that should help

[spartan max2]

Or perhaps we could outlaw lobbiests and political donations and go back to being a republic instead of an oligarchy

It would help but not really solve the problem.

Companies will find ways to donate for sure. No matter how much laws you make. Or just a straight up under the table illegal bribe.

And lobbyist are not inherently bad. Their are lobbyist for charities, unions, political action groups and of course companies.

All a lobbyist does is try to persuade congress of your views.

Outlawing lobbyist would also have a negative effect of not allowing groups of concerned citizens ( like the gmo movement) from speaking to congress.

And I would like to point out that lobbyist have existed for all of time. the term started in Lincolns time. Their was hotel that people would hangout in the lobby. Hence lobbyist

The only way to really solve the problem is to give the government less power and spending ability. So they don't have favors to handout.

Edited August 28, 2013 by spartan max2

[spacecowboy342]

I know this is a wild a crazy idea, but how about you educate and teach your own kids???

You are absolutely correct, a crazy idea. Seriously? No need for college educated teachers to teach children math and science.Joe the welder can just teach his own kids whatever he wants. The ignorance of the American public about science already makes us a laughingstock around the world.This should fix everything

[spacecowboy342]

It would help but not really solve the problem.

Companies will find ways to donate for sure. No matter how much laws you make. Or just a straight up under the table illegal bribe.

And lobbyist are not inherently bad. Their are lobbyist for charities, unions, political action groups and of course companies.

All a lobbyist does is try to persuade congress of your views.

Outlawing lobbyist would also have a negative effect of not allowing groups of concerned citizens ( like the gmo movement) from speaking to congress.

And I would like to point out that lobbyist have existed for all of time. the term started in Lincolns time. Their was hotel that people would hangout in the lobby. Hence lobbyist

The only way to really solve the problem is to give the government less power and spending ability. So they don't have favors to handout.

So there is no hope? Just stop taxing the rich and get rid of gov't and everything will work out? Ya'll call me a communist and you are all closet anarchists