The Ten Cannots

[spartan max2]

So there is no hope? Just stop taxing the rich and get rid of gov't and everything will work out? Ya'll call me a communist and you are all closet anarchists

No stop taxing people!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some tax is needed of course though.

It is not about the rich it is about people. Everything is Taxed. 50 percent of every dollar goes back to the government.

The materials to get the product made is taxed.

Shipping the materials is taxed

Manufacturing the product gets taxed

Then there is a sales tax!

A Income tax!

local taxes !

Your employers gets taxed the companies earnings before he can pay anyone.

Let people spend their own money the way they choose. it will boost the economy. Because people spend when they have money. Making business grow, creating jobs.

products will be cheaper because it wont cost so much to make them.

Big government claims to care about the poor as they tax the **** out of them.

Big companies get a monopoly because of their influence on government. We bail them out if they fail, we subsidize them. Give them grants. Special privilege's. Tax small business out of business.

If you want to get rid of corruption then stop letting government take 50 percent of every dollar to give to their "friends".

Stop taxing people to death so that they have money to spend and small business will grow.

Edited August 28, 2013 by spartan max2

[spacecowboy342]

No stop taxing people!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some tax is needed of course though.

It is not about the rich it is about people. Everything is Taxed. 50 percent of every dollar goes back to the government.

The materials to get the product made is taxed.

Shipping the materials is taxed

Manufacturing the product gets taxed

Then there is a sales tax!

A Income tax!

local taxes !

Your employers gets taxed the companies earnings before he can pay anyone.

Let people spend their own money the way they choose. it will boost the economy. Because people spend when they have money. Making business grow, creating jobs.

products will be cheaper because it wont cost so much to make them.

Big government claims to care about the poor as they tax the **** out of them.

Big companies get a monopoly because of their influence on government. We bail them out if they fail, we subsidize them. Give them grants. Special privilege's. Tax small business out of business.

If you want to get rid of corruption then stop letting government take 50 percent of every dollar to give to their "friends".

Stop taxing people to death so that they have money to spend and small business will grow.

OK so then what? The roads and bridges are all crumbling now. Everybody complains about all the money spent to feed the poor when the bulk of spending goes to the military industrial complex and they are going to get there's. And when we have shut down all the schools and people are starving in the street and all the bridges collapse then the right wing will have their version of utopia?

[spartan max2]

OK so then what? The roads and bridges are all crumbling now. Everybody complains about all the money spent to feed the poor when the bulk of spending goes to the military industrial complex and they are going to get there's. And when we have shut down all the schools and people are starving in the street and all the bridges collapse then the right wing will have their version of utopia?

States with lower taxes get more revenue. So we would actually have more money

and Maybe we could actually cut spending on the stuff we don't need

like stop policing the world and having are bases in 131 different countries. Yes that means fight the industrial military complex

Stop the insane useless war on drugs.

get rid of all the pork in every bill

Stop bailing out companies, stop subsidizing them.

Etc

and I was wrong it is actually more then 50 percent.

http://www.nowandfutures.com/taxes.html

[Kowalski]

I know this is a wild a crazy idea, but how about you educate and teach your own kids???

You are absolutely correct, a crazy idea. Seriously? No need for college educated teachers to teach children math and science.Joe the welder can just teach his own kids whatever he wants. The ignorance of the American public about science already makes us a laughingstock around the world.This should fix everything

Well, it's a lot better than what our indoctrination..I mean, "education" system teaches....At least welding is a useful skill and you can earn a living with it...

[spartan max2]

http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/why-tax-migration-and-federalism-mean-doom-for-left-wing-states-such-as-new-york-california-and-illinois/

This link has a great map showing state revenue. Notice the highest tax states are losing insane amounts of money and the least taxed states are actually making money

And it shows people migrating out of high taxed states to lower taxed states.

[spacecowboy342]

States with lower taxes get more revenue. So we would actually have more money

and Maybe we could actually cut spending on the stuff we don't need

like stop policing the world and having are bases in 131 different countries. Yes that means fight the industrial military complex

Stop the insane useless war on drugs.

get rid of all the pork in every bill

Stop bailing out companies, stop subsidizing them.

Etc

and I was wrong it is actually more then 50 percent.

http://www.nowandfut....com/taxes.html

Well. I think I have to agree with everything you said there

[spacecowboy342]

Well, it's a lot better than what our indoctrination..I mean, "education" system teaches....At least welding is a useful skill and you can earn a living with it...

I do earn a living with it. But there are things and concepts that children should learn that not just anyone is qualified to teach. Should our education system be improved? Abso-bleeping-lutely. But overhauled and improved not scrapped

[spacecowboy342]

wow lol I don't think iv ever had someone I was arguing with on UM for that long say that

Edit: I kind of feel like you were directed at me Jeremiah

Hey, I don't like paying taxes any more than anyone else.Thoreau said,"that government is best that governs least" and I believe that whole heartedly. I would just apply it differently than some of you. I think people in America should not go hungry or be homeless or be denied medicine even if it is their own fault they are in that circumstance. Maybe that makes me a bleeding heart liberal but I hate being labeled. I also believe in free enterprise but things like banks manipulating markets to make money at the expense of everyone else must stop

[DecoNoir]

That’s a “it depends”. It’s all within the power of the individual. If you consider yourself a victim, then you will remain as such. If you realize your GOD given Right and power, then you join the ranks of the wealthy. It’s really quite simple, it all depends on how hard you are willing to work and build something for yourself.

That's bs on a basic level: Maybe if we lived forever then yes, statistically we are going to succeed with hard work. Unfortunately that's not the way this world works, events can happen that are completely out of the control of the individual and they suffer for it, and it may take years to recover. I've seen people put in hour after hour, day after day, year after year, just to get buy. I challenge you to go into a middle class neighborhood and say to someones face "If you work harder, you'll join the rich."

I'm all for individual rights and limited government, but to me you come off as some high school kid who just discovered what "Atlas Shrugged" is, and your on a trip now.

[spartan max2]

That's bs on a basic level: Maybe if we lived forever then yes, statistically we are going to succeed with hard work. Unfortunately that's not the way this world works, events can happen that are completely out of the control of the individual and they suffer for it, and it may take years to recover. I've seen people put in hour after hour, day after day, year after year, just to get buy. I challenge you to go into a middle class neighborhood and say to someones face "If you work harder, you'll join the rich."

I'm all for individual rights and limited government, but to me you come off as some high school kid who just discovered what "Atlas Shrugged" is, and your on a trip now.

You have some good points

It might not seem like it from my post but I do agree with some federal programs.

Like disability benefits

Cheaper school lunches for poor children ( its not their fault their parents are poor)

Unemployment benefits to an extent sometimes people just get bad luck. I just think our benefits are over the top now. If you've been on unemployment for years then you either don't want a job or you just don't want the jobs you can get.

Some federal programs are good to have. Social security I am strongly against though and others that I don't want to get in to cause im about to get off.

Edited August 28, 2013 by spartan max2

[spacecowboy342]

As far as social security I have been paying in to it my whole life. I'm getting close to retirement(sort of) so if you're going to cut that I want my money back

[spartan max2]

As far as social security I have been paying in to it my whole life. I'm getting close to retirement(sort of) so if you're going to cut that I want my money back

something would have to be done to make sure everyone who has been paying in to it doesn't get screwed.

The problem is that for every three dollars you put in to social security, you only get one dollar back. Because your money that your saving has to go through a middle man( the government) and they want to take their cut.

Plus we are Forcing people to save. I never like forcing people what to do with their money.

[spacecowboy342]

something would have to be done to make sure everyone who has been paying in to it doesn't get screwed.

The problem is that for every three dollars you put in to social security, you only get one dollar back. Because your money that your saving has to go through a middle man( the government) and they want to take their cut.

Plus we are Forcing people to save. I never like forcing people what to do with their money.

Good point. I've never liked paying into it myself. But if I don't get it or get my money back my old age might be a little hard

[spartan max2]

So off topic but just wanted to point out to everyone that a Roth IRA is a good investment.

think about it for your retirement that is all.

[spacecowboy342]

So off topic but just wanted to point out to everyone that a Roth IRA is a good investment.

think about it for your retirement that is all.

Yeah,got that going on but still that money is not a gov't handout it's mine that I've paid for my retirement(soc sec I mean) and I want it Edited August 28, 2013 by spacecowboy342

[Almagest]

Seems like I miss the good parts when this thread really got going. So I’m not sure what more I can add, but since this was a response to me, I’ll in turn respond.

Oh yes, they are. As soon as you start demanding that the rich take care of the poor. Isn’t that one of the 10 Commandments? Thou shall not covet…

American Capitalism would disintegrate over night if people stopped covetting. What do you think the ultra-rich do? They not only covet more money but they covet a system of government that favours and protects their profit. Well they don't need to covet the latter anymore because they have it.

Who says that what the rich are taxed goes to feed to poor? The government covets the wealth of the rich and squanders it. That is what the rich whine about because it is waste.

The economy doesn't function well unless there is money moving through all levels of society. The poor having money is in no way waste, they have to spend every cent of it to survive, and every person living check to check is pouring all of their money back into the economy. People starving to death in the streets is a bad thing for capitalism. There will always be people who rely on the state for support, the mentally ill, the elderly and the disabled, for instance. Breaking the welfare mentality is a good idea because it's the only way to get upward social mobility, but you're never going to employ everyone, and those who cant find work need money to survive and contribute to the capitalist system, even if it's only as a pure consumer.

Many wealthy do give to charity but the best charity that the wealthy can give is to use their wealth wisely to build and re-invest with. Passing out dole squanders the wealth as representative in the parable of the talents. Wealth does no one any good when it is wasted.

Wasted money is an odd concept. So long as money is changing hands it's not wasted. Money sitting in off shore bank accounts is not stimulating the economy one iota. Neither is the 300 million dollar compensation packages given to investment bankers with taxpayer money. The arguments from free market capitalists favour no one but the ultra-rich, who have not only set up giant frauds, but have legitamized them by buying off politicians and economists. And now the middle class parrot these arguments like they actually will benefit them. The de-regulation of the financial sector has led to a cabal of people rigging the system in their favour, and you still seem to think that they should be allowed to continue because that's somehow worse than welfare. It'a the equivalent to blaming Barbados for the World Wars.

[spacecowboy342]

If you want to talk about quotes that are questionable to who they are attributed to This is one of my favs...

"Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotism".....Aristotle. I argued with Britney on here a few months back about that one...no proof for or against that it was Aristotle...but seeing that is what mainstream says...and the fact that I like Aristotle....I am going to go with it.

I am also a fan of Plato...especially his musings of politics...

"The price of apathy in public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."...get your damn legal voting ID or shut up and live with it....

"“The society we have described can never grow into a reality or see the light of day, and there will be no end to the troubles of states, or indeed, my dear Glaucon, of humanity itself, till philosophers become rulers in this world, or till those we now call kings and rulers really and truly become philosophers, and political power and philosophy thus come into the same hands."

A very relevant Aristotle quote...

"The most perfect political community is one in which the middle class is in control, and outnumbers both of the other classes."

Sorry....

Edit to add another very relevant Aristotle quote...

"If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in government to the utmost."

aka....get your ID's and get out there and vote....a silenced voice is no voice at all....and apathy...as said above...only allows the evil to rule...

Didn't Plato also say something about how democracy would never work because everyone would want things but not want to pay for them and the best gov't would be by philosopher-kings?Sorry I like Rousseau and Locke better

[spacecowboy342]

No one is asking for things to be handed to them? Really? No one? Not one person? Surely even you don't believe that.

No one I know

[spacecowboy342]

what the crap is the privileged class that must be some of that left-wing talk ( you broke rule #7) I went to a public school with kids who parents were anything from doctors to ditch diggers. yes in some instances the rich have better opportunites but I think the percentage is smaller than the left thinks it is. and again there are still rich democrats so that kind of invalidates all of the lefts argument against the rich.

I'm talking about the fact that many in America can't send their kids to college so the cycle of poverty is maintained. Not everyone can get a scholarship. And student loans put you in serious debt from the start. Level the playing field/Make four year state college free(or trade school) Give people at least the chance to better themselves.

[spacecowboy342]

Not really but they're still here so what are you complaining about?

Ahh, argument losing liberalisms.

Ahh, argument losing liberalisms.

It is left speak. They use that a lot. It is supposed to make people believe there is a class system that you are born into and cannot escape from. Well you know it's wrong. The rich can get poor and the poor can get rich in America. In a class system that is simply not the case. This guy is a lost cause. He is sucked up in the rhetoric of class warfare. Nothing is fair to him unless the rich are doing all the paying.

Bite me

[MiskatonicGrad]

American Capitalism would disintegrate over night if people stopped covetting. What do you think the ultra-rich do? They not only covet more money but they covet a system of government that favours and protects their profit. Well they don't need to covet the latter anymore because they have it.

Kind of weird then that the ultra-rich have their money in off shore accounts?

I'm talking about the fact that many in America can't send their kids to college so the cycle of poverty is maintained. Not everyone can get a scholarship. And student loans put you in serious debt from the start. Level the playing field/Make four year state college free(or trade school) Give people at least the chance to better themselves.

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372

I know it is a year old but still interesting

I guess in your idea of a utopian society we would all have college degrees and working for Wal-Mart on government assistance because we can't make ends meet.

[spacecowboy342]

Kind of weird then that the ultra-rich have their money in off shore accounts?

http://nces.ed.gov/f...play.asp?id=372

I know it is a year old but still interesting

I guess in your idea of a utopian society we would all have college degrees and working for Wal-Mart on government assistance because we can't make ends meet.

I'm not looking for any utopia just to give people a chance to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps as you people insist they should. Not all would succeed of course but should they not have a chance?

[DecoNoir]

I'm not looking for any utopia just to give people a chance to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps as you people insist they should. Not all would succeed of course but should they not have a chance?

France has this kind of system, from what I'm told: After their equivalent of high school you can select any test in your area of intrest, if you pass it, university is free. However the difficulty is extremely high.

This would be ideal in my opinion. Let those willing to work toward their goal have a fair shot, and weed out the idiots who just happen to have money.

[MiskatonicGrad]

I'm not looking for any utopia just to give people a chance to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps as you people insist they should. Not all would succeed of course but should they not have a chance?

But that is what we are saying they do have a chance. if they just get out from under the yoke of government assistance and the whole culture of victimhood they can and do succeed. yes it is an unfair world but using the government (i.e. our tax money or worse money borrowed from china) to make it fair is not the right way the constitution was not set up for the government to wield that kind of power.

[DecoNoir]

I swear, its like this guy just finished playing the first Bioshock and completely missed the point.