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StarMountainKid

Why Was I Born?

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spacecowboy342

The sperm that reached the egg did so by chance, I guess...it could have been any other sperm and he would have been a completely different person.

How do genes affect which sperm reached the egg first?

I'm no biologist but don't each sperm pretty much carry the same genetic information? I would think the only reason more than one are involved is to increase the chances of successful fertilization
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Frank Merton

Are you saying a non-functioning brain could be conscious?

Maybe you should read more carefully; I'm saying there is no reason to think a functioning brain is the only thing that is needed for consciousness; you also need a mind, or at least maybe you do.

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spacecowboy342

Maybe you should read more carefully; I'm saying there is no reason to think a functioning brain is the only thing that is needed for consciousness; you also need a mind, or at least maybe you do.

Sorry guess I misunderstood. I think consciousness is neurons firing in your neural network which is synonymous with the mind, of course I could be wrong

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StarMountainKid
You are you because of the genetics of your parents and immediate ancestry coupled with how you were raised. To me this is all it boils down to. We are reactive biological machines that adapt and react to the stimuli in our surroundings. Our programming in upbringing i.e culture, parents, society, etc pretty much determines how our personality and awareness is expresse
You cannot be any other, therefore the odds of you existing now are 1.
The sperm that reached the egg did so by chance, I guess...it could have been any other sperm and he would have been a completely different person.

I appreciate all these response and all the others. I'm still not getting my point across, my fault. I'm not sure I know how to state my question in a way that expresses what I mean.

I'm not asking about biology or social conditioning. I can understand my existence as a fluke of biology. What I'm attempting to convey is, how is it that I am a conscious being, conscious of myself, living right now, considering this separate from biology.

That I exist seems to me to be an incredible event. The odds of my existence may be exactly 1 in one sense, because I'm here, but in another sense I am unique, in that my feeling of my own consciousness appeared out of nowhere. There has been no "me" until my consciousness came into being as "me".

How could this happen, notwithstanding biology and all that? How can my own self-consciousness, my feeling of me as myself separate from all else, come into existence, and why now and at no other time?

I'm not sure I will ever be able to convey what I really mean. Maybe I just can't find the right words to convey my question properly, or there may not be words to convey what I'm trying to say.

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spacecowboy342

I appreciate all these response and all the others. I'm still not getting my point across, my fault. I'm not sure I know how to state my question in a way that expresses what I mean.

I'm not asking about biology or social conditioning. I can understand my existence as a fluke of biology. What I'm attempting to convey is, how is it that I am a conscious being, conscious of myself, living right now, considering this separate from biology.

That I exist seems to me to be an incredible event. The odds of my existence may be exactly 1 in one sense, because I'm here, but in another sense I am unique, in that my feeling of my own consciousness appeared out of nowhere. There has been no "me" until my consciousness came into being as "me".

How could this happen, notwithstanding biology and all that? How can my own self-consciousness, my feeling of me as myself separate from all else, come into existence, and why now and at no other time?

I'm not sure I will ever be able to convey what I really mean. Maybe I just can't find the right words to convey my question properly, or there may not be words to convey what I'm trying to say.

I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at either but I suspect it's one of those questions that have no answers. If you were to live it had to be sometime it happened to be now.Random chance

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Frank Merton

Sorry guess I misunderstood. I think consciousness is neurons firing in your neural network which is synonymous with the mind, of course I could be wrong

Is mind neurons firing at each other or exchanging various chemicals, or both? How does this work? When I look at the sky and see that it's blue, I experience something called "blueness" in my mind. How do neurons go about creating this personal experience when in fact it obviously has nothing to do with the sky but only with wavelengths entering my retina?

I don't think the reductionist approach stands a chance of explaining mind.

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Bendy Demon

How could this happen, notwithstanding biology and all that? How can my own self-consciousness, my feeling of me as myself separate from all else, come into existence, and why now and at no other time?

Because your parents initiated the process and you are the biological results of nine months in the mommy oven.

Your awareness is taught, mostly, by your parents and society. You were taught to focus on it.

That is part of the human evolution. It's not a mystery nor is it anything remarkable. It just is whatever it is.

Humanity has adapted to a complex way of life and thus your own psychological makeup allows you to be aware of yourself in a more far reaching manner.

I think maybe you are searching for something that speaks of a more mystical reason though.

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Bendy Demon

Is mind neurons firing at each other or exchanging various chemicals, or both? How does this work? When I look at the sky and see that it's blue, I experience something called "blueness" in my mind. How do neurons go about creating this personal experience when in fact it obviously has nothing to do with the sky but only with wavelengths entering my retina?

Our eyes have evolved and adapted to pick up certain electro-magnetic frequencies..the narrow band we call "visible light".

Bees have evolved so they can find flower patterns which can only be seen using the ultra-violet spectrum.

It's called "science".....it's really quite enlightening. More so than mysticism.

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spacecowboy342

Is mind neurons firing at each other or exchanging various chemicals, or both? How does this work? When I look at the sky and see that it's blue, I experience something called "blueness" in my mind. How do neurons go about creating this personal experience when in fact it obviously has nothing to do with the sky but only with wavelengths entering my retina?

I don't think the reductionist approach stands a chance of explaining mind.

I don't think I could explain it well enough to do it justice but I do believe neurons firing is all there is. The human brain is the most complex thing we(or at least I) know of. We are biological machines whose software(mind)can adapt it's hardware(brain) for a purpose. I call this will

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Frank Merton

Our eyes have evolved and adapted to pick up certain electro-magnetic frequencies..the narrow band we call "visible light".

Bees have evolved so they can find flower patterns which can only be seen using the ultra-violet spectrum.

It's called "science".....it's really quite enlightening. More so than mysticism.

Thanks for that patronizing response; you plainly are not current about the issues of neurology.

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Frank Merton

I don't think I could explain it well enough to do it justice but I do believe neurons firing is all there is. The human brain is the most complex thing we(or at least I) know of. We are biological machines whose software(mind)can adapt it's hardware(brain) for a purpose. I call this will

I don't. I have no counter theory, but I don't see neurons producing consciousness, nor even sentience. I think here we have it that the reductionist is the one professing faith and I am more the skeptic. I see a problem with no answer on the table.

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spacecowboy342

I don't. I have no counter theory, but I don't see neurons producing consciousness, nor even sentience. I think here we have it that the reductionist is the one professing faith and I am more the skeptic. I see a problem with no answer on the table.

I don't claim absolute certainty on this. It is just the idea that makes sense to me. I claim no special knowledge

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StarMountainKid
s mind neurons firing at each other or exchanging various chemicals, or both? How does this work? When I look at the sky and see that it's blue, I experience something called "blueness" in my mind. How do neurons go about creating this personal experience when in fact it obviously has nothing to do with the sky but only with wavelengths entering my retina?

I don't think the reductionist approach stands a chance of explaining mind.

Another thing is, there is no "you" experiencing the "blueness". There is just "blueness" or qualia of this type that is subjective conscious experience. There is no area of the brain that can be considered the "you" who experiences. All of the areas of the brain seem to cooperate to produce consciousness as a generalized experience.

Daniel Dennett in a lecture on Youtube explains consciousness as similar to stage magic. From the audience point of view, a magic trick is mysterious and unexplainable, but if you go backstage you see the props and mechanics of the trick, and that's all there is to it. It's not mysterious at all. This is an analogy of what consciousness is. It's just what the brain does.

When we try to analyze conscious from consciousness itself (the audience point of view) it seems mysterious. When we look at the mechanics of the brain (from backstage), consciousness is just the functioning of the brain. We may not understand all of the mechanical bits and how the relate to each other, but obviously they all work together producing a self-recursive subjective phenomenon, like two mirrors facing each other.

It's a magic trick that is not real magic.

.

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Frank Merton

The "me" that is my mind is not an object but a process. Your thinking is way too literal. Think of mind as a sort-of electromagnetic wave where each electrical wave produces a magnetic wave which produces an electrical wave in a self-perpetuating affair. Mind of course is different in that it is subject to inputs from the brain in some way I don't pretend to understand, but I am very skeptical of people who claim to understand it in a mechanical way. This is burying oneself in the aith of physical reductionism, and that became obsolete in the 1930s.

A u-tube presentation making unsupported-assertions and using an irrelevant allusion to a magic show does seem to me a bit much.

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spacecowboy342

The "me" that is my mind is not an object but a process. Your thinking is way too literal. Think of mind as a sort-of electromagnetic wave where each electrical wave produces a magnetic wave which produces an electrical wave in a self-perpetuating affair. Mind of course is different in that it is subject to inputs from the brain in some way I don't pretend to understand, but I am very skeptical of people who claim to understand it in a mechanical way. This is burying oneself in the aith of physical reductionism, and that became obsolete in the 1930s.

A u-tube presentation making unsupported-assertions and using an irrelevant allusion to a magic show does seem to me a bit much.

I don't claim to completely understand this. I doubt anyone does. I still think the mind or consciousness is merely the effect of physical processes in the brain

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Leonardo

I'm not asking about biology or social conditioning. I can understand my existence as a fluke of biology. What I'm attempting to convey is, how is it that I am a conscious being, conscious of myself, living right now, considering this separate from biology.

That I exist seems to me to be an incredible event. The odds of my existence may be exactly 1 in one sense, because I'm here, but in another sense I am unique, in that my feeling of my own consciousness appeared out of nowhere. There has been no "me" until my consciousness came into being as "me".

And my response to you was completely independent of that biology.

You consciousness never "came into being" as you. Or, it might be more acurate to say your consciousness is being reinvented every moment as you. It's not just social conditioning, although that is part of it, but an entire network system of experience, response, feedback, action, thought, etc.

But "you" never existed before this moment. Before this moment, it was another "you".

Compare yourself to the biosphere of Earth. Why is the biosphere of Earth exactly as it is now? That is the reason you are you.

If, however, you are asking why you are conscious at all, that depends on what you believe with regards biology, mind, 'soul', etc.

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sutemi

SMK, You are asking The ultimate question and I would say that really you’re the only one that can truly answer it. I saw your post last night after meditating and my answer then was - to become an actor in this the greatest play and the whole planet is your stage. For you to stand in a place where the infinite and the finite meet and so experience the wonder of the creation – but that’s just my take on it. I find that when I practice my meditation the questions stop and contentment fills my life in that moment, so I am practicing trying to join all the moments together, to fill my life with the moment called NOW!

I saw this vid and I really like it,

‘Within each of us, there is a silence. A silence as vast as the Universe.

And when we experience that silence we remember Who We Are.’ G. Norris

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Lilly

IMO it's just a crap shoot...a throw of the cosmic dice if you will. We're here and that's that. The real question is what do we do now that we're here, and that's up to each one of us to decide.

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Zaphod222

Why was I born, and why now and not at some other time?

Because your parents had sex 10 months before.

Duh?

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Bendy Demon

Thanks for that patronizing response; you plainly are not current about the issues of neurology.

It wasn't my intent to be patronizing.

I misinterpreted your post, I thought you were insinuating that there was a metaphysical cause to what you were seeing.

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Professor T

Thought experiment.............

I did a thought experiment once, and played out scenario's where one had the ability to transfer their consciousness from one body into another...

Example... If Star mountain Kid transferred the essence of his self, his being, awareness, consciousness, from his body into say, Ryu's or Frank's body..

What would happen? What would it be like?

In my version of this experiment, Star mountain Kid would cease to be Star mountain Kid.. He would instead take on the entire personality of Ryu or Frank simply because that body & brain is a package complete with it's own personality born of Cultural differences, different education, history, parents, preferences born of individual and social backgrounds would mean his consciousness would be that of being Ryu or Frank, and of always being Ryu or Frank...

I can't personally think of any other outcome that would occur if we had the ability to transfer our consciousness from one body to the next.. Personally, I think this tells us a lot about the nature of consciousness. Perhaps, in essence, it is something shared by all of us, and should never be perceived as something individual to each self?

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StarMountainKid
Because your parents had sex 10 months before.

Duh?

lol

Perhaps, in essence, it is something shared by all of us, and should never be perceived as something individual to each self?

I agree. I think consciousness itself is separate from one's genetic makeup, personality, experience and knowledge. There is no "you" in consciousness itself. This does not exclude consciousness from being a product of the brain. I'm also open to the possibility that consciousness is not a product of the brain, although I consider this possibility less likely. This is just my personal view.

I think consciousness is like a magic trick, in that from the point of view of consciousness we cannot explain how it works or its origin. In investigating the brain's neurological processes we may come to some understanding of the mechanics of consciousness, but this knowledge will always be separate of the "feeling" of consciousness itself.

So, having explained its mechanics, have we really understood our experience of consciousness? I think not. We are always the audience and never the magician. Consciousness can never analyze itself and see how it works. I think this fact reveals one reason why we view consciousness as a mystery. We just feel it, and because it can not explain itself it seems like some ethereal entity floating in our head but nowhere to be seen.

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Leonardo

lol

I agree. I think consciousness itself is separate from one's genetic makeup, personality, experience and knowledge. There is no "you" in consciousness itself. This does not exclude consciousness from being a product of the brain. I'm also open to the possibility that consciousness is not a product of the brain, although I consider this possibility less likely. This is just my personal view.

I think consciousness is like a magic trick, in that from the point of view of consciousness we cannot explain how it works or its origin. In investigating the brain's neurological processes we may come to some understanding of the mechanics of consciousness, but this knowledge will always be separate of the "feeling" of consciousness itself.

So, having explained its mechanics, have we really understood our experience of consciousness? I think not. We are always the audience and never the magician. Consciousness can never analyze itself and see how it works. I think this fact reveals one reason why we view consciousness as a mystery. We just feel it, and because it can not explain itself it seems like some ethereal entity floating in our head but nowhere to be seen.

Perhaps you are confusing consciousness and personality?

After all, a mouse is conscious and so is a termite. But neither may have a personality through which to express that consciousness.

Edited by Leonardo

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MorbidVampireica

maybe you did exist as energy or something without a physical body. before you were born

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StarMountainKid
Perhaps you are confusing consciousness and personality?

After all, a mouse is conscious and so is a termite. But neither may have a personality through which to express that consciousness

I just think consciousness is separate from personality.

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