Ancient Aliens

[cladking]

Quarrying:

If an advanced race were quarrying the blocks with advanced tools/methods the blocks would be smooth on all sides and of course they would all be the same size and shape at least throughout the same level.

I agree that stones were probably quarried by humans. The evidence is reasonably conclusive.

97% probable.

Transportation/Building:

If an advanced race were involved in the building of the pyramid then they would be able, using their advanced technology to transport many blocks at one time and the time to move them from the quarry to the build site and even onto the current level would be extremely quick.

I agree for several reasons. Let's not forget that aliens could have been instrumental

but did no quarrying or heavy lifting though. Let's not forget that the ancients said stones

flew to the pyramid 300' at a time. This is highly consistent with your contention of how

aliens would operate. This is also consistent with the lack of evidence for other means

of moving stones. We have no reason to think that levitation rays would leave changes

in the stones that we could detect.

If the advanced race did not have the technology to precisely place the stone blocks they would have gotten them close and men could have finished the minor adjustments in placement. I remember an article I read once where 12-20 men could move a 2 1/2 ton stone over a lubricated surface. So let us say that once the stones were put on the current level you had 50 gangs of 15 men each moving the stones into position. I chose 50 gangs since they would only need to make the minor adjustments in placement.

Sure. Why not? Maybe the stones were levitated while they were fit into position.

The blocks on a level are not all uniform and they have chisel marks. Not evidence of an advanced race but more like how men would quarry the stones.

This is evidence that they were quarried by hand. The horizontal banding on the pyramid is

evidence that the stones moved directly from the quarry to the pyramid which could be con-

sidered consistent with levitation. The ability to keep the courses perfectly wedge shaped

to compensate for errors at lower levels strongly suggests alien help. The computations for

the internal structure was exceedingly complex and suggests higher math (and possibly al-

iens).

The 20 year time for building the pyramid has been used to try to say it wasn't enough time for humans to build the pyramid but an advanced race would be able to do it in far less time seeing that they would have been more advanced than we are now.

20 years is unsupported. Egyptologists choose to disbelieve everything Herodotus said except

this. While I believe everything he said there's no reason to suppose he was misinformed. Rem-

ember the carbon dating on the pyramid paints a strange picture of it being built upside down

over more than a century. Only aliens could have done this but it's more likely the carbon dating

is a fluke.

750 men to basically nudge the blocks into place is far fewer than what is shown by the worker camps that were discovered that could hold thousands of workers.

Sorry, but this doesn't wash. It would require many tens of thousands of very hard working men

to build this as orthodoxy suggests. There were men, women, and children here instead. There

were barely enough to even do the quarrying.

Of course with the advanced technology used to lift and place the blocks on each level there would be no need for ramps yet we find the remains of ramps.

Come on. There is no evidence abny stone wasever lifted on any great pyramid with ramps.

The word "ramp" isn't even attested until the 5th dynasty (after the pyramids were built) and even

then it was used to refer to a walkway and not a superhighway for stone.

I understand saying that ramps were not used in the construction of the pyramids before any ramps were found however, would not the insistence on maintaining that same view after ramps were found be ignoring their discovery because it further supports the existing theories of how the pyramids were built while further alienating (no pun intended) the theory that aliens had a hand in it?

The theory that there "mustta been ramps" existed before the ramps were found. Wow!!! What

are the odds?

The fact is stones were pulled, pushed, or levitated up the side of the pyramid almost beyond doubt.

95% probability.

Of course this is based on logic and an interpretation of the gravimetric scan so probability is a

little difficult to estimate.

I'd say ramps have less than a 2% chance of being how the stones were lifted and aliens around 4%.

Of course this is based on evidence on which I don't choose to elaborate. Sufficwe to say that evi-

dence is linguistic and suggests knowlkedge which ancient people could not have had by any means;

<.001% probability.

It's simple enough to find out how it was built but they won't do it.

Maybe they already know and don't like the answer. I just don't know but I more strongly believe

than ever that the answer will be forthcoming whether they choose to find it themselves or not. There

was a lot of genius to build these and it was either human or alien.

[cladking]

Quarrying:

If an advanced race were quarrying the blocks with advanced tools/methods the blocks would be smooth on all sides and of course they would all be the same size and shape at least throughout the same level.

While I agree that stones were quarried by humans I didn't mean to imply that all of the

stones were quarried by humans or that the pyramid builders might not use different terms.

Many stones were sawn and all of the visible granite was sawn. We cabn't see inside the

pyramid and conditions inside could be very different. Look at Meidum;

I don't know what's going on here but "obviously" many of the visible stones were sawn

and these were, in theory, originally inside the pyramid. G1 appears to be the same. It

would take a lot of power applied in a very specific and unknown way to do all this cut-

ting and I wouldn't rule out aliens at supplying the power.

I don't know.

[kmt_sesh]

I'm still seeing some problems with people's pet theories but it's getting better. Please remember that this is about the television show Ancient Aliens, and not whether ramps were or were not used to build pyramids. Arguing the mechanics of ancient engineering is acceptable, as I see it, but certain things will easily derail this thread. You all know what I'm talking about.

If I see a continuing trend in arguing ramps, I will close this thread. Cladking, please know I am not singling you out because numerous posters are still sneaking it in.

Therefore, everyone, take my warning seriously. Do not force me to close this thread. I will not issue another warning.

Capisce?

kmt_sesh

[cladking]

Ok.

The TV show Ancient Aliens looks more like a joke than factual information or entertainment. It's

just a trainwreck and I'd be ashamed to have it on my network even if that network had already fallen

far from grace. The host is as laughable as the script. They do no fact checking and set back the

ancient alien concept with every episode.

After I saw this trainwreck once it was plenty.

Obviously the ancient alien concept can't afford the program. There just isn't that much support for it.

It's a little scary there's enough audience to watch the program at all.

I heartell it used to not be so bad. No doubt everyone knows that Robert Bauvel has divorced himself

from this program due to its poor quality. It's got to be hard to give up an opportunity to get your ideas

out there for any alternative theorist (though he doesn't consider himself alt).

[kmt_sesh]

Having posted yet another warning—honestly, I don't enjoy doing so—let's return to the subject. Topics of ancient engineering are in fact frequently brought up on the regrettable show Ancient Aliens, whose talking heads exhibit little research ability but are long on chronic astonishment and quite talented at twisting facts and issuing blatant falsehoods. I've never held back in my opinion that I see this television show as insipid and not worth consideration, and I for one am ashamed of the History Channel for its precipitous decline in program quality. It's not that I expect the History Channel to do an about-face and return to programs geared toward intelligent and educated people (although it's my unrealistic wish), but Ancient Aliens has no business being on such a channel.

I'm well aware that some fringe posters see me as arrogant for my dismissive attitude of fringe ideas, but I can't apologize (and will not) for staunchly defending real-world scholarship and academic pursuits. The fact is, most fringe proponents have no real understanding of proper research and, as is obvious in so many discussions at UM, no real desire, either, to try to educate themselves.

There's my moment of pulpit pounding. Obviously I'm in a mood, so let's return to the subject at hand. Taking a closer look at how ancient monuments were built is a useful exercise in examining and subsequently disproving the idiotic flotsam spewed on Ancient Aliens, and I agree with all that the Great Pyramid is a good example to use. So let's review some indisputable facts.

The Workman's Village

Many posters and, I admit, even some Egyptologists have said the workmen's village at the south end of the Giza Plateau housed the workers who labored at the pyramid. Most Egyptologists and other historians shy away from saying this because, quite simply, what's been excavated so far by Mark Lehner and his GPMP teams shows no facilities for housing many thousands of laborers. Barracks have been excavated on the site, and these probably housed a military garrison and perhaps selected foremen and others among the workforce who were of higher status. That said, however, the vast majority of the workforce was not full time. Based on corvée labor, the vast majority were called up for only three or four months of work, before being sent back home to their farms and villages. Therefore, the vast majority of the workforce probably resided in clusters of "tent cities" around or nearby the workmen's village, and such encampments leave little to no evidence behind, archaeologically speaking.

What cannot be denied by anyone reasonably familiar with the archaeological excavations of the workmen's village, is that it maintained a large and highly sophisticated industry to support, care for, and supply many thousands of workmen at any one time. Forges, bakeries, breweries, animal pins, slaughter yards, and other industries are all accounted for in the ruins of the village. Also in evidence is an infrastructure to house and tend to high-level government officials (e.g., mayor or governor), and this is the sort of thing seen in only the most important of cities in ancient Egypt.

As for the village population and the demographics of the labor force in general, nearly all were of course adult men. There certainly would've been women, who would've been important in the bakeries and textile works in the village. As for children, I might not be aware of evidence suggesting otherwise but I don't know of evidence telling us children were in residence. By this I mean children of the general laborers, although it's possible the children of officials who lived in the village were there with their parents.

Carbon Dating

This has been discussed so many times at UM that I won't spend much time on it. All I really wish to say on the subject is that it is indisputable. It's quite clear in my own experience that those who doubt the veracity of carbon dating are people who don't understand the science behind it, and it's as simple as that. In the wider world this view is held mostly by religious fundamentalists who can't fathom that the world is older than 4004 BCE, although here at UM it's popular among fringe posters who somehow still want to see the Great Pyramid as 10,000-plus years old, which is laughable at best and always sad. Recall that more than forty samples were taken from the Great Pyramid alone, so to suggest that all forty samples are wrong just does not bear further consideration. All I can say is, please, learn the science behind carbon dating. It has become one of the most reliable dating methods in science, and enhancements such as accelerator mass spectrometry make it only more reliable.

Construction Techniques

The sum total of evidence at Giza indisputably points to the construction techniques of an Early Bronze Age people. The quarries at Giza are enormous and cannot be ignored. The chisel marks on the limestone masonry are abundant and obvious. Chisels, stone tools, and wooden mallets have been excavated from Giza. The Great Pyramid itself is solidly attested to Khufu, who reigned for over twenty years, which would've provided sufficient time to complete the Great Pyramid. (The fifty-plus years provided by Herodotus and Manetho can be discounted as unrealistic and unevidenced.)

All told, then, we have the infrastructure to supply and equip many thousands of workmen at a time, the industry to maintain and produce their tools and food, the sophisticated administrative system to lead and supervise them, and even archaeological examples of the tools in use at Giza. When archaeology and related fields point so definitively at these answers, there is no logical or—indeed—healthy reason to look for sci-fi whimsy and aliens.

Always bear in mind the personal character of the talking heads on Ancient Aliens. Two are most prominent on the show. Erich von Däniken is a convicted criminal in perpetrating fraud, and is a proven fraud in the "evidence" he has produced for his books and television appearances. Giorgio Tsoukalos is entertaining to look at but, as far as credibility goes, is a washout: the man is known for inconsistency and contradiction. To him, every single thing can be ascribed to aliens. The next time one of you farts, Giorgio would likely explain it as an alien embryo gestating in your large intestine. In other words, there is just no reason for any thinking and reasoning individual to take such characters seriously.

And yet many people seem to do so. It baffles me. Whatever happened to picking up a legitimate history book and educating one's self?

[kmt_sesh]

Ok.

The TV show Ancient Aliens looks more like a joke than factual information or entertainment. It's

just a trainwreck and I'd be ashamed to have it on my network even if that network had already fallen

far from grace. The host is as laughable as the script. They do no fact checking and set back the

ancient alien concept with every episode.

After I saw this trainwreck once it was plenty.

Obviously the ancient alien concept can't afford the program. There just isn't that much support for it.

It's a little scary there's enough audience to watch the program at all.

I heartell it used to not be so bad. No doubt everyone knows that Robert Bauvel has divorced himself

from this program due to its poor quality. It's got to be hard to give up an opportunity to get your ideas

out there for any alternative theorist (though he doesn't consider himself alt).

It's not often we agree on things, cladking, but your post echoes my own. I don't personally care for the theories of Bauvel and don't take him seriously, but I will agree he's a lot more grounded than the clowns on Ancient Aliens. Unfortunately I've forced myself to watch numerous episodes because I've encountered people among the public at our museum who love to talk about the show, and I've had to "educate" myself with the things discussed on the show. It's cute when a little kid says he thinks the show is cool, but quite disturbing to me when an adult expresses belief in it.

[Rlyeh]

NO!!!

Confirmation bias is looking for evidence of things you already believe.

Confirmation bias is missing the four pieces of good evidence for aliens in the post you quoted.

Confirmation bias is having your mind made up.

"Try looking at the evidence again while imagining that there must have been aliens. You can

see evidence for aliens everywhere if you look for it."

^

Definitely confirmation bias. You've arrived at a conclusion without evidence.

Ramps have been debunked. Aliens are just not well evidenced. Maybe they didn't want to be well evidenced

and took steps to not be well evidenced.

No evidence what so ever for aliens visiting earth and building stuff with rocks. None. Nothing. Shouldn't even be an argument because it is completely unsupported. Edited October 31, 2013 by Rlyeh

[Myles]

I agree that stones were probably quarried by humans. The evidence is reasonably conclusive.

97% probable.

Where did you pull that number from?

[zoser]

Nonetheless evidence for AA technology is still abounds in ancient sites.

The convincing evidence to me lies in these areas:

1) Vitrified stonework. No need for images since the website of Jan Peter de Jong is comprehensive and for the keen enquirer contains virtually all key evidence.

http://www.janpeterdejong.com/

2) Softened stone. There are images from several ancient sites where blocks have been dismantled and lower blocks previously hidden contain the print where heavier blocks have sunk in.

The second style is the style of the perfect fitting stones. Walls were not even a needle enters between the stoneblocks. They can be found in different forms and sizes, but the general characteristic is the perfect fit. Also these stones have a part that is vitrified, this is at the borders. Sometimes also on other parts of the stoneblocks we can recognize vitrification. Another characteristic of these walls is the blueprint that the upperlaying stones left on the lower laying stones, as if the weight of the upper stones gave the print in the once softer underlying stones.

http://www.ancient-m...fied-rocks.html

I have such images if people are interested.

3) The perfect fitting of huge granite and and andesite walls. To be seen in a variety of locations but perhaps the best examples in Peru. The fits are made to a breathtaking precision, in not one plane but usually three dimensions.

The inside structure of The Cori Cancha being a very good example and again these images are also easy to find.

4) Drilling small holes. Best examples to be found in Peru and Egypt. Orthodox explanations fall short in terms of explaining these remarkable artifacts. Some holes are more than 2 feet deep in andesite and perhaps no more than a couple of inches in diameter. Evidence of copper tubes used to create such work is extremely weak and unconvincing.

So when all these aspects are looked at together a bigger picture emerges that certain ancient cultures had at their disposal the technology to soften stone. This allowed cutting, shaping and precision aligning to be achieved in hard stone with relative ease. This would explain the sites at Puma Punku, Sacsayhuman and Ollantaytambo for example.

The traces of this technology can easily be seen (see Jan Peter de Jong's website).

Further clues support all this. For example that in later cultures this practice of moving thousands of megalithic pieces, accurately aligned mysteriously ceased. There is no evidence that it was done in Roman, Greek or Renaissance time.

Yes there may be examples where the odd megalithic piece was positioned or perhaps work involving pillars. However I propose that the precision seen in the Peruvian structures with the equivalent hardness and sheer weight will be missing.

This points to technology lost which was part of a previous time and belonged to non-indigenous people. In Peru we see rougher cruder structures known to have been built by the Inca and next to it very impressive precision structures using much larger material, often vitrified and exhibiting unexplained pock marks and odd nodule features. This further indicates lost technology capable of softening stone.

So looking at the evidence of ancient stonework, stone softening was quite obviously a known practice. The question is could it have been achieved by indigenous peoples using say chemicals? The answer is that no candidate has ever been found to explain the phenomena bearing in mind the huge number of sites scattered all over the countryside in Peru. Anecdotal reports do exist referring to some esoteric chemical derived from a plant, but again it remains enshrined in legend with no real supporting basis.

A further refutation of the chemical hypothesis lies in the fact that it's not simply the outer layer of the stone that shows signs of being softened. The effect runs deep into the stone. Such a chemical today would be invaluable to the construction industry; I contend that it would have been discovered by now if it was naturally occurring. Some stones can be vitrified with chemicals however granite cannot.

Looking at the massive scale of artifacts across Peru and Bolivia, one has to conclude that they had a totally unknown technology, heat directed or electromagnetic that could affect the molecular structure of stone. That in no way supports the hypothesis that the stonework was achieved by indigenous tribal people such as the Inca.

Finally, any claims that the ancient work is easily replicatable with conventional tooling should be put to the test. Protzen and a team set out to do just that. They used steel tools a team of a dozen or so men and experimented on fairly lightweight samples by ancient standards. They could not replicate the same precision. Their attempts not only fell short in terms of accuracy but also at one point almost hospitalized a few members of the team.

Then there are the pyramid building attempts of recent years, the poor results of which I really do not need to describe in support my case.

I contend that the basis of the AA hypothesis is well supported from the evidence of ancient stonework alone. If one takes into account artwork, statues, myths and legends, then the case becomes totally inescapable.

Edited October 31, 2013 by zoser

[laver]

In a world where the reporting of daily news is massively sensationalised to attract viewers it would surely be naive to think

that a TV programme called Ancient Aliens would not get the same treatment.

But as a casual bystander, i.e. not a viewer, it does seem to raise awareness of some of the mysteries of the ancient world

which would otherwise not reach a larger audience. Of course those who do not believe there are any ancient mysteries, or current

mysteries, to be considered will not be happy at this exposure but then one would not expect them to be interested in reading a

post on a forum about alternative ideas...or would one ?

This thread is about the affect of this TV show which is obviously quite large but most posts are clearly by people who have no time

for 'alternative ideas' - a strange phenomena possibly caused by their apparent need to bolster their own particular 'beliefs' ?

But what if they are wrong....?

[Rlyeh]

Nonetheless evidence for AA technology is still abounds in ancient sites.

Where is your evidence of aliens shaping rocks?

Ignorance is not evidence.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Rlyeh

[Myles]

But as a casual bystander, i.e. not a viewer, it does seem to raise awareness of some of the mysteries of the ancient world

which would otherwise not reach a larger audience.

That is part of the problem. They report lies as facts. They report opinions as facts. They steer the "larger audience" away from real research that has been done.

[Kahn]

Damn kmt_sesh, you're on a roll. I love post #155.

"What if, as some experts believe, Giorgio is full of crap. Might this indicate that no extraterrestrials were instrumental in building every monument predating 1BC?"

Edited October 31, 2013 by Kahn

[Just Dave]

Use there search function and you'll find loads about AA on the forums.

You will also find that, except to a select vocal few, the show is complete and utter BS.

Hey no.1 i agree with you but still show is good to watch, nevertheless it is a show. By my opinion forcing people to believe that those things happened, still there are many many unexplained incidents, sightings, phenomena through out our existence but they arent aliens as much as show wants us to think.

[seeder]

Damn kmt_sesh, you're on a roll. I love post #155.

"What if, as some experts believe, Giorgio is full of crap. Might this indicate that no extraterrestrials were instrumental in building every monument predating 1BC?"

Giorgio IS full of crap, experts dont need to say that, just any rational intelligent person can say that, like me, Im saying it too

NOBODY can be 'qualified' to speak on aliens, ancient aliens or even future aliens, NO-ONE! Because there has NEVER been any evidence of aliens, ever, full stop.

Their little company has about as much credibility to real science and archaeology - as a Star Trek convention. (no offence to Trekkies)

He has a degree in "sports information and communication"... a really useful degree in the real world that is. NOT! He manages and promotes Von Dans theories and.... and to save me writing just read his wiki page

http://en.wikipedia....io_A._Tsoukalos

.

Edited October 31, 2013 by seeder

[Skithia]

The other thing that bugs me about it - the shots of these great big alien ships in orbit - now we all know they are cgi and would look excellent in a sci-fi show or film but really adding them in after a whole segment presenting Stichin's imaginings as fact is a definite attempt to manipulate malleable minds. If there is actual evidence or artifacts that we really cannot explain then present it and present both sides of the argument - not just one side of the debate and a load of lies. By lies I mean telling us that massive blocks of sandstone (impressive in themselves but doable by our ancestors) are granite and diorite and our ancestors couldn't possibly have worked out how to carve this stuff.

[laver]

That is part of the problem. They report lies as facts. They report opinions as facts. They steer the "larger audience" away from real research that has been done.

As a non viewer of this show cannot really comment on the detail of what they propose but rest assured that from

comments made by some posters on this forum, on various threads, by those who oppose 'alternative ideas' they are no

strangers to telling porky pies and presenting grossly misleading information to try and support their particular 'beliefs'.

It is a fact of life that people will join particular 'camps' and then support those 'camps' even when totally flying in the face of

evidence to the contrary. The hairy presenter, who seems quite popular with many, may see the work of 'aliens' in many

things but the evidence for some possible 'outside' influence in the ancient world is well worth careful consideration.

How often have 'science fiction' and 'alternative ideas' been later proved to be science fact...and the 'established' view

reluctantly discarded...?

So if the programme makes people think 'outside the box' this must be a good thing for the future and particularly for

children in teaching them to have an open mind and to always question 'established' dogma.

[seeder]

As has been posted previously, there is a site that is dedicated to unravelling the AA nonsense

http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/

There is a full 3 hour video covering many of the AA claims, BUT...there are also pages of text relevant to the subjects for those who like to read.. AND, the 3 hour vid has been broken down into chunks.

To be honest I reckon its best that folks at least read or watch the smaller segments until they have seen the lot.

Now let me see if I can paste the vid segment links here without screwing things up, and if it works PLEASE everyone, click on a title that interests you, then come back for a chat about it

References Transcripts and Videos. Each one is SHORT in duration

• Intro
  
• Puma Punku
  
• The Pyramids
  
• Baalbek
  
• Incan Sites
  
• Easter Island
  
• Pacal’s “Rocket”
  
• Nazca Lines
  
• Tolima “Fighter Jets”
  
• Egyptian Light Bulb
  
• UFO’s in Ancient Art
  
• Crystal Skulls
  
• Ezekiel’s Wheel’s
  
• Ancient Nuclear Warfare
  
• Vimanas
  
• Anunnaki
  
• Nephilim
  
• Misc and Conclusion
  
• 
  
• http://ancientaliens...nd-transcripts/
  

.

Edited October 31, 2013 by seeder

[Myles]

Hey no.1 i agree with you but still show is good to watch, nevertheless it is a show. By my opinion forcing people to believe that those things happened, still there are many many unexplained incidents, sightings, phenomena through out our existence but they arent aliens as much as show wants us to think.

I agree that the show can be entertaining. But I take it as only fictional entertainment.

Quite honestly, I don't think Georgio believes what he spews. He's in the entertainment business to make money. There is even a website that sells what is lited as Tsoukalos Ancient Aliens Merchandise. An 1.5" replica of the pendant that resembles an airplane for $25 plus shipping.

[Myles]

So if the programme makes people think 'outside the box' this must be a good thing for the future and particularly for

children in teaching them to have an open mind and to always question 'established' dogma.

Actually, that is what bothers me. As I stated earlier in this thread, my young daughter was watching the show and later was talking about the crap the show presented as fact. Children will believe this stuff because:

It's on the History Channel

It's presented as fact

It's presented in a documentary format

It's presented without rebuttle

[zoser]

As has been posted previously, there is a site that is dedicated to unravelling the AA nonsense

.

Which addresses virtually none of the points raised post 159.

Maybe the skeptic show producers need to do wider and more in depth research?

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=253813&st=150#entry4967526

By the way the producer of the show; isn't he a staunch Christian? Wonder what his creationist views might be?

[zoser]

Where is your evidence of aliens shaping rocks?

Ignorance is not evidence.

Look at the evidence for yourself. Even if you just glance at Jan Peter de Jong's website.

It had to be done with more advanced technology than that possessed by the indigenous people.

The artefacts testify to it. There were no photo's of lasers or high tech at work just as there are no photos of copper tools being used to fashion the relics of Puma Punku. Photos are not needed because the traces are discernible from looking at the marks on the stone.

It's all well and good for KMT to make the appeal for people educate themselves by reading high school history books.

If it were convincing to all then there would not be such a fierce division of opinion. Not everyone who believes in the AA hypothesis is out to make money. I haven't made a penny from it.

I reject strongly orthodox claims about indian tribes with copper tools bashing out the Puma Punku relics.

It's all gross lies, unbelievable, and to be filling the minds of young people with it is simply criminal.

The division will therefore exist until the orthodox schools come to their senses and break the deadlock.

If it never happens then the division will continue to the end of time itself. Never will anyone convince me that the superbly crafted artifacts of Peru, Egypt and Bolivia were the work of indigenous indian tribes.

[Kahn]

So immediately if I enter a workshop full of tools and see a sculpture half completed, I should immediately assume that aliens came down, molded the sculpture, and disappeared without a trace. The tool marks have no bearing upon the origin of the sculpture. Do you realize how insane that sounds. There is more than adequate evidence of tools, partially carved stones, stones abandoned during transport from the quarries to the walls, stone tool on stone dimpling, stones being readied for placement, etc. to plainly identify each phase of how these walls were built. Again, ignorance is not evidence, nor is dismissal of overwhelming evidence just because it does not fit with some failed pet theory that has absolutely zero evidence to support it. The proof is there, just because it conflicts with some folks version of "reality" is no grounds to dismiss it.

I would hate to stand accused of capital murder in a courtroom and be tried by a jury comprised of these "believers". Despite evidence that I was caught on video at a gas station 7 states away 15 minutes prior to the crime, had no contact with the victim, and had no DNA or trace evidence linking me to the crime scene, I would still be guilty because secretly I'm a Grey in disguise sent here to observer and subvert the humans. Really?

Edited October 31, 2013 by Kahn

[seeder]

So immediately if I enter a workshop full of tools and see a sculpture half completed, I should immediately assume that aliens came down, molded the sculpture, and disappeared without a trace. The tool marks have no bearing upon the origin of the sculpture. Do you realize how insane that sounds. There is more than adequate evidence of tools, partially carved stones, stones abandoned during transport from the quarries to the walls, stone tool on stone dimpling, stones being readied for placement, etc. to plainly identify each phase of how these walls were built. Again, ignorance is not evidence, nor is dismissal of overwhelming evidence just because it does not fit with some failed pet theory that has absolutely zero evidence to support it. The proof is there, just because it conflicts with some folks version of "reality" is no grounds to dismiss it.

I would hate to stand accused of capital murder in a courtroom and be tried by a jury comprised of these "believers". Despite evidence that I was caught on video at a gas station 7 states away 15 minutes prior to the crime, had no contact with the victim, and had no DNA or trace evidence linking me to the crime scene, I would still be guilty because secretly I'm a Grey in disguise sent here to observer and subvert the humans. Really?

Dont get him started, as usual he dismisses all rational explanations, and has been banging on about the 'mystery' of ancient sites for 4 YEARS, here! Hes even had threads closed down to this obsession of his... and he is allegedly a grown man, ex math teacher, ex engineer, and claims to currently work at the British Museum - you know, a place FULL to the brim of ancient artefacts with many professors and top rated archaeologists working there too,

Yes despite his alleged background, and current job at the museum.... he has what can be described as a childish fascination....with rocks walls.., there is no convincing him, so bear that in mind and dont waste your time and effort trying to show him the error of his delusions, it will get you nowhere

Best just to skim over his posts, but thats just my opinion of course, and that opinion was gained thru a 650 page discussion of the very same subjects for 4 months straight, with much evidence to counter all his claims, from myself and others of course. But, a total waste of time in the end

He is exasperating to say the least.

[zoser]

So immediately if I enter a workshop full of tools and see a sculpture half completed, I should immediately assume that aliens came down, molded the sculpture, and disappeared without a trace. The tool marks have no bearing upon the origin of the sculpture. Do you realize how insane that sounds. There is more than adequate evidence of tools, partially carved stones, stones abandoned during transport from the quarries to the walls, stone tool on stone dimpling, stones being readied for placement, etc. to plainly identify each phase of how these walls were built. Again, ignorance is not evidence, nor is dismissal of overwhelming evidence just because it does not fit with some failed pet theory that has absolutely zero evidence to support it. The proof is there, just because it conflicts with some folks version of "reality" is no grounds to dismiss it.

I would hate to stand accused of capital murder in a courtroom and be tried by a jury comprised of these "believers". Despite evidence that I was caught on video at a gas station 7 states away 15 minutes prior to the crime, had no contact with the victim, and had no DNA or trace evidence linking me to the crime scene, I would still be guilty because secretly I'm a Grey in disguise sent here to observer and subvert the humans. Really?

I gather you have never looked carefully at the Peruvian stones?

Maybe you should.

By the way no one has ever satisfactorily explained how 30 tonne blocks of andestite were cut, carved, positioned with high accuracy fitting together like pieces of an intricate jigsaw puzzle.

Well it happened at Sacsayhuaman.

Start there.