AtomicDog Posted January 3, 2014 #76 Share Posted January 3, 2014 How come there isn't a TEL conspiracy theory? That stuff IS coming out of airplane exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted January 3, 2014 #77 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Avgas is available in the US, and for the most part every piston powered aircraft you see fly by is burning it. As a percentage of all aviation fuel burned it is very low, and many of the smaller piston machines are burning regular car gas without TEL. I think there are only 2 refineries in the entire country that produce it, so essentially its days are numbered. At least one company has experimented with an avgas without lead, and I think they are making progress, but don't know when it could be approved and go into wide use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter B Posted January 3, 2014 #78 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I asked: Aluminium? In fuel? As in, a metal mixed into a liquid? Wouldn't it just sink to the bottom of each fuel tank? Rashore replied: Hehehe Peter, if aluminum were used, it would be in a compound form rather than say, a pulverized soda can. Much like leaded gas for cars, the lead wasn't pure lead, it was a compound form added to the gas. Fair enough. But it gets confusing when chemtrail advocates use shorthand terms like "aluminium" instead of "aluminium compounds", given that the former word has a very specific meaning. So which aluminium compounds are we talking about? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicDog Posted January 4, 2014 #79 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The "powers that be" breathe the exact same air that we masses do. So how do they insulate themselves from the effects of the chemtrails that they are responsible for spewing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czero 101 Posted January 4, 2014 #80 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The "powers that be" breathe the exact same air that we masses do. So how do they insulate themselves from the effects of the chemtrails that they are responsible for spewing? Our Reptoid Overlords are immune to puny human chemicals.... That was sarcasm, btw... They're just as susceptible as we are.... Cz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted January 4, 2014 #81 Share Posted January 4, 2014 .. how do they insulate themselves from the effects of the chemtrails that they are responsible for spewing? Indeed, especially when anything let out at 20-30,000 feet is going to land who knows where, and who knows when.. Seriously, the idea of covertly spraying chemicals at high altitudes is prettty much the dumbest conspiracy claim EVER. And it is rather notable that not ONE 'chemtrail' believer has EVER been able to document a trail that was not attributable to the *inevitable* process of ice crystal condensation at high altitudes. It is easy (especially in the USA, where almost all of these claims come from) to get hold of atmospheric conditions at all altitudes from various sources (eg UWYO's Upper Air Soundings). Then you can use any of the flight tracking systems (eg FlightAware) to identify the flight you are watching to find out at what altitude it is.. And NOT ONE 'chemtrail' claimant has ever been able to use that sort of methodology to point to an aircraft that was leaving trails when it shouldn't have been. That's because the trails are CONtrails - condensation trails. There's no conspiracy, never was. Yes, some low level spraying goes on, for cropdusting and insect control, and then very occasionally they do cloud seeding, but as far as some sort of secret high altitude spraying - the idea is completely daft. If 'they' wanted to poison you with chemicals, there are many much more efficient ways that would allow proper targeting.. BTW, It is notable that the main proponents of the 'chemtrail' conspiracy managed to raise over $6,500 from gullible donors, to go towards 'in situ testing'. That money has vanished and no tests were done... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 4, 2014 #82 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Indeed, especially when anything let out at 20-30,000 feet is going to land who knows where, and who knows when.. Seriously, the idea of covertly spraying chemicals at high altitudes is prettty much the dumbest conspiracy claim EVER. And it is rather notable that not ONE 'chemtrail' believer has EVER been able to document a trail that was not attributable to the *inevitable* process of ice crystal condensation at high altitudes. It is easy (especially in the USA, where almost all of these claims come from) to get hold of atmospheric conditions at all altitudes from various sources (eg UWYO's Upper Air Soundings). Then you can use any of the flight tracking systems (eg FlightAware) to identify the flight you are watching to find out at what altitude it is.. And NOT ONE 'chemtrail' claimant has ever been able to use that sort of methodology to point to an aircraft that was leaving trails when it shouldn't have been. That's because the trails are CONtrails - condensation trails. There's no conspiracy, never was. Yes, some low level spraying goes on, for cropdusting and insect control, and then very occasionally they do cloud seeding, but as far as some sort of secret high altitude spraying - the idea is completely daft. If 'they' wanted to poison you with chemicals, there are many much more efficient ways that would allow proper targeting.. BTW, It is notable that the main proponents of the 'chemtrail' conspiracy managed to raise over $6,500 from gullible donors, to go towards 'in situ testing'. That money has vanished and no tests were done... I'm not involved in the 'conspiracy theory jumbo'. But all of the answers, including yours, don't jive with what I have seen over and over and over. We know that some times contrails dissipate...we know that sometimes they don't...but they never dissipate (as far as what I've seen) when all of the Xs appear. Point: today...I saw maybe 3 contrails total...why is that...just not a good day for contrail forming? Whenever I see the Xs, there are many, many, many contrails...and they don't dissipate. Today, I saw 3...and they dissipated quickly...please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skep B Posted January 4, 2014 #83 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Different altitudes having different atmospheric conditions and different wind patterns allowing for dissappation of the trails? I'm nowhere near an expert in this sort of thing though, that just seems like a plausible explanation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czero 101 Posted January 4, 2014 #84 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I'm not involved in the 'conspiracy theory jumbo'. But all of the answers, including yours, don't jive with what I have seen over and over and over. We know that some times contrails dissipate...we know that sometimes they don't...but they never dissipate (as far as what I've seen) when all of the Xs appear. Point: today...I saw maybe 3 contrails total...why is that...just not a good day for contrail forming? Whenever I see the Xs, there are many, many, many contrails...and they don't dissipate. Today, I saw 3...and they dissipated quickly...please explain. Weather conditions are constantly changing. It really is that simple. Cz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 4, 2014 #85 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Weather conditions are constantly changing. It really is that simple. Cz Gosh, I didn't know the ultimate answer could be nut-shelled like that. Boy, do I feel stupid...NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czero 101 Posted January 4, 2014 #86 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Gosh, I didn't know the ultimate answer could be nut-shelled like that. Boy, do I feel stupid...NOT! Maybe you should... because at the very basic level, my answer is correct and explains what you are seeing. Cz Edited January 4, 2014 by Czero 101 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted January 4, 2014 #87 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I'm not involved in the 'conspiracy theory jumbo'. But all of the answers, including yours, don't jive with what I have seen over and over and over. Well, I'd have to say that you really haven't put much effort into researching it... We know that some times contrails dissipate...we know that sometimes they don't... Yes, clouds sometimes dissipate too. And sometimes they don't, they grow.. You do understand that clouds are dependent on the atmospheric conditions? And that contrails are, effectively, just clouds that are being triggered by the aircraft's exhaust? Depending on the weather up there, they will range from being very short or non-existent, through to lasting for hours - in fact they may trigger large scale growth of cirrus clouds to cover the sky. but they never dissipate (as far as what I've seen) when all of the Xs appear. ???? Please just THINK about it - if the contrails *are* long lasting, then surely that is the ONLY time that you will get long parallel trails that will form the X's.. (I'm presuming you mean the X's are the trails crossing. So of course the only times you will see X's are those when the trails are long lasting... If you do see crossing trails frequently, then you are almost certainly under a known navigation or flight path crossing point - where, roughly, do you live? Point: today...I saw maybe 3 contrails total...why is that...just not a good day for contrail forming? Whenever I see the Xs, there are many, many, many contrails...and they don't dissipate. Today, I saw 3...and they dissipated quickly...please explain. As explained, it's just the weather up there. May I suggest you go visit that UWYO site and check your region. Look at the temperatures at various altitudes (esp around 7000-10000 metres) and note what happens to the dewpoint and relative humidity figures. You'll start to see a pattern.. You can then use FlightAware to identify the flights and do some genuine research if you are seriously interested. And then there's this page, which shows the flight paths over America - the top image is those over 30,000 feet (more likely to contrail), and the second is those below (contrails can still form down to about 20,000 feet but it is far less common). I think you will agree there is an awful lot of X's there... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted January 4, 2014 #88 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) The "powers that be" breathe the exact same air that we masses do. So how do they insulate themselves from the effects of the chemtrails that they are responsible for spewing? And why would the pilots, aircrews and groundcrews (thousands of them) knowingly poison themselves,their families and friends? If someone told me to fly around and dissapate these mysterious barrels in the air, I'd tell them, "No." Edit: Surely one of them would have heard about the 'chemtrail' conspiracy by now and come forward. Unless they're all reptoid aliens, of course. Edited January 4, 2014 by Likely Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 4, 2014 #89 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Well, I'd have to say that you really haven't put much effort into researching it... Yes, clouds sometimes dissipate too. And sometimes they don't, they grow.. You do understand that clouds are dependent on the atmospheric conditions? And that contrails are, effectively, just clouds that are being triggered by the aircraft's exhaust? Depending on the weather up there, they will range from being very short or non-existent, through to lasting for hours - in fact they may trigger large scale growth of cirrus clouds to cover the sky. ???? Please just THINK about it - if the contrails *are* long lasting, then surely that is the ONLY time that you will get long parallel trails that will form the X's.. (I'm presuming you mean the X's are the trails crossing. So of course the only times you will see X's are those when the trails are long lasting... If you do see crossing trails frequently, then you are almost certainly under a known navigation or flight path crossing point - where, roughly, do you live? As explained, it's just the weather up there. May I suggest you go visit that UWYO site and check your region. Look at the temperatures at various altitudes (esp around 7000-10000 metres) and note what happens to the dewpoint and relative humidity figures. You'll start to see a pattern.. You can then use FlightAware to identify the flights and do some genuine research if you are seriously interested. And then there's this page, which shows the flight paths over America - the top image is those over 30,000 feet (more likely to contrail), and the second is those below (contrails can still form down to about 20,000 feet but it is far less common). I think you will agree there is an awful lot of X's there... With regards to And then there's this page,.......wow! Seriously Wow....that's one 24 hour span? The next one below 10,000 feet is what really struck a chord with me...because that was always a big question...some people have said you can't tell altitude from the ground...bs...I know 10,000 feet from 30,000 feet...but look at where I live...Dallas...yeah...okay... Geeze...okay...until someone comes up with some really solid evidence that there is indeed chemical additives to jet fuel that there shouldn't be..along with an excellent reason why...I'm going with Contrails not Chemtrails. That really is fascinating. I had no idea there were that many flights every day. Good Lord...no wonder Air Traffic Controllers get paid so much for their time! Grief! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenat Posted January 4, 2014 #90 Share Posted January 4, 2014 10,000 feet to 30,000 is easier to tell (if you're right underneath, less so at a distance) What you really can't tell is the difference between a few thousand feet when both aircraft are over 30,000 feet. You think those pics are impressive, Check out these videos 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 4, 2014 #91 Share Posted January 4, 2014 10,000 feet to 30,000 is easier to tell (if you're right underneath, less so at a distance) What you really can't tell is the difference between a few thousand feet when both aircraft are over 30,000 feet. You think those pics are impressive, Check out these videos Pretty freaking incredible. Okay, I'm guessing now that the real truth is that we should be concerned if we 'stop' seeing X patterns the way we do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkitecht Posted January 4, 2014 #92 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The "powers that be" breathe the exact same air that we masses do. So how do they insulate themselves from the effects of the chemtrails that they are responsible for spewing? ...And yet Fukushima is still going strong and they have yet to do anything about it.Does not make much sense...yet it is happening.Not all thing's come with an easy answer.Rational thinking from top officials?Wait and see is such a dangerous game to play.Like playing chicken on a one lane highway... Good stuff.Very entertaining! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted January 4, 2014 #93 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) With regards to And then there's this page,.......wow! Seriously Wow....that's one 24 hour span? Yes - it's little wonder that there are genuine concerns about the effects of contrails on our climate - does that significant extra cloud loading add to or subtract from global warming..? The next one below 10,000 feet is what really struck a chord with me...because that was always a big question...some people have said you can't tell altitude from the ground...bs...I know 10,000 feet from 30,000 feet...but look at where I live...Dallas...yeah...okay... I'd offer a word of caution, as a rather avid aircraft watcher meself.. Once things are further than about a kilometre or so, your eyes no longer have any parallax to work with, so that's one distance perception method gone. The others are: - parallax from moving your head or your observation location - very difficult to do especially if the target is also moving! - haze effects - that obviously depends on the atmosphere so is not an accurate guide - known sizes - be careful with this one, as some aircraft have almost identical silhouettes to other much larger or smaller ones - if you are not sure which one you are viewing, you will be fooled - comparison to things of known distance - eg if you see it obviously going above/below, or disturbing a cloud layer - beware as cloud layers even of specific types vary significantly in heights - sound - this is probably the least useful of all as sound is effectively deadened by wind directions, damp air, convective and shear layers, pollution .. and is also heavily dependent on the aircraft's angle, direction and throttle settings etc. - {added} angular velocity of aircraft (ie its speed across the sky) - while this can help a bit, it is subject of course to what speed the pilot has actually decided to travel at! Many folks, myself included, will guesstimate heights from what they 'feel' the height to be, but that guess comes from your brain's processing of all those factors and it has a rather large error range, I suspect. If you have other ways of detecting height, I'd be interested to hear - I'm hot and worn out today (heatwave here) and I've probably missed some.. By the way, thanks for considering all the info with an open mind, Joc - it's a pleasant change from some of the avid 'chemtrail' proponents. (oops, I did forget one obvious one - added in Red..) Edited January 4, 2014 by ChrLzs 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted January 4, 2014 #94 Share Posted January 4, 2014 OMG! A respectful discourse in the Conspiracy Forum. Shoot me, I've seen everything! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecoNoir Posted January 4, 2014 #95 Share Posted January 4, 2014 OMG! A respectful discourse in the Conspiracy Forum. Shoot me, I've seen everything! (Click) BANG!!!.... sorry about the buckshot, I swear I thought I loaded the beanbag rounds. Seriously, why can't this happen more often? Actual discussion on a theory and not "Imma messiah 'cause I outsmarted de Ebil Gur'ment!!! Pwiase me!!!!" Schtick we seem to be getting a lot of lately. Good work ChrLzs! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted January 4, 2014 #96 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (Click) BANG!!!.... sorry about the buckshot, I swear I thought I loaded the beanbag rounds. Seriously, why can't this happen more often? Actual discussion on a theory and not "Imma messiah 'cause I outsmarted de Ebil Gur'ment!!! Pwiase me!!!!" Schtick we seem to be getting a lot of lately. Good work ChrLzs! DecoNoir - thanks! Yep, I decided that I'm not gunna use the ole "I'm a Messiah coz I outsmarted da Ebil Gubmint" routine any longer... it just don't get me no respeck!! Actually I think you really should have thanked Joc... I was just bein' my usual polite, modest self.. (cough/splutter) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted January 4, 2014 #97 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) (Click) BANG!!!.... sorry about the buckshot, I swear I thought I loaded the beanbag rounds. OWCH! YOU ASS! It's a figure of speech! Okay, now I owe you one... Edited January 4, 2014 by Likely Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted January 4, 2014 #98 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Actually I think you really should have thanked Joc... I was just bein' my usual polite, modest self.. (cough/splutter) Joc is one of the better debaters (discussionalers?) I've met in this forum, you as well 'ChrLzs'. I still owe Deco a shot in the ass however. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted January 4, 2014 #99 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I still owe Deco a shot... Will there be video??? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicDog Posted January 4, 2014 #100 Share Posted January 4, 2014 ...And yet Fukushima is still going strong and they have yet to do anything about it.Does not make much sense...yet it is happening.Not all thing's come with an easy answer.Rational thinking from top officials?Wait and see is such a dangerous game to play.Like playing chicken on a one lane highway... Good stuff.Very entertaining! I think that there is a slight bit of difference between an accident caused by a natural disaster and intentional poisoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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