raising minimum wage does not reduce poverty

[F3SS]

Hmm... Different world I guess. Still though, our minimum wage workers complaining about having a job, clothes, shelter, tv's, phones, cars and a broad range of tax funded life sustaining programs to take advantage of have no idea how much worse off they could have it. First world problems.

[danielost]

Helps, but then it increases the amount of illegal aliens again because they need somebody to do the cheap labor jobs.

In the united states, before we started the minimum age program? There were no illegal aliens. Mexicans would come norh and work in the fields and americans would go south to do so to, ie migrant workers.

How ever the american farmers couldn't afford to pay the minimum wage. So congress passedthe first emmgration laws so the farmers wouln't have to pay the minimum wage.

[Frank Merton]

One can live quite well in Vietnam on about $500 a month. Rent for a good house is maybe $100 a month, for a mansion, $1,000 a month. Food is cheap, as is health care. You end up spending money if you insist on having a car (most people use motorbikes and Westerners take cabs).

If it weren't for the tough attitude of the government about visas and foreign ownership of property, I would recommend it as a place to retire.

[danielost]

One more thing to consider is those americans below poverty lines are richerthan some of the rich in other countries.

[danielost]

One can live quite well in Vietnam on about $500 a month. Rent for a good house is maybe $100 a month, for a mansion, $1,000 a month. Food is cheap, as is health care. You end up spending money if you insist on having a car (most people use motorbikes and Westerners take cabs).

If it weren't for the tough attitude of the government about visas and foreign ownership of property, I would recommend it as a place to retire.

This is the same more or less in mexico. Including foreign ownership.

[questionmark]

One more thing to consider is those americans below poverty lines are richerthan some of the rich in other countries.

That does not help if you can't pay a roof over your head and put food on the table, does it?

[questionmark]

In the united states, before we started the minimum age program? There were no illegal aliens. Mexicans would come norh and work in the fields and americans would go south to do so to, ie migrant workers.

How ever the american farmers couldn't afford to pay the minimum wage. So congress passedthe first emmgration laws so the farmers wouln't have to pay the minimum wage.

Where you have to agree that something is very wrong. If you cannot make a living out of 10 hours of work a day that work should not be done by nobody. Holding people in hunger bondage or feeding them at the cost of all was never a good idea.

[Frank Merton]

Yea -- the way to make it in Vietnam is get into the States or some other developed country (Australia is now even more popular than the states), work hard and live 20 to a room and save money, save 20,000 or so dollars, go back to Vietnam and start your business.

I think both the receiving country and Vietnam profit from this sort of thing.

[danielost]

Where you have to agree that something is veruy wrong. If you cannot make a living out of 10 hours of work a day that work should not be done by nobody. Holding people in hunger bondage or feeding them at the cost of all was never a good idea.

Farmers do not set their crop prices, unless they do a road side stand or farmers market. At that time the government did. Today it is the grain elevater or equilavent that does.

Edited September 6, 2013 by danielost

[spacecowboy342]

Its happening in every sector of business. Your complaint lies with the increase of the money supply in relation to money in circulation. The minimum wage law is simply a symptom of gov failure to protect the purchasing power of its currency.

Admittedly you make a valid point however it is also true that wages have not kept pace with inflation and so can't,as some have claimed be the cause of inflation.I make better than the minimum but I made more thirty years ago for the same type work than today though prices for everything are much more

[danielost]

Here's the other side of the coin. These businesses that will not be paying for obama care will raise their prices as if they were. This is so to their custamers I loks like they are taking care of heir employees.

You also have to remember the more middle men between you and t'he producer they also have to raise prices to cover their employees and pay for the marked up price of the cimpany below them. Thus inflation goes up faster than wages. I also said tax increases were part inflation.

[supervike]

You have to remember labor is a product. Right now we have more labor than we need. Like having to many apples th price goes down. Currently most of the job gains are part time jobs.

Labor is not just a product. Those companies don't exist to produce workers. Labor is an integral part of any company....it's the lifeblood of most companies, in fact. Keep thinning the blood, but don't be surprised when the whole body fails.

[danielost]

No, labor is product. The worker is not a product. When you go in and apply for a job, the employer will tell you how much you will make. If you agree to those terms you rent your labor to that company for the agreed on price. If youcan't agree or later decide your labor is worth more ou ask for a pay raise or go and find a new job that pays better.

Unions do this for you, as long as you pay your dues and follow their rules. So the question then becomes do you go and find work or higher a union to do so.

[Gromdor]

Yea -- the way to make it in Vietnam is get into the States or some other developed country (Australia is now even more popular than the states), work hard and live 20 to a room and save money, save 20,000 or so dollars, go back to Vietnam and start your business.

I think both the receiving country and Vietnam profit from this sort of thing.

This is exactly the reason why illegal aliens come here. A dinner for me and the wife can cost me $100 here in the US. That would be a months rent for someone in Vietnam or 50 days wages for someone in Nicaragua. The problem for the average American on minimum wage is that they can't go back to Vietnam and live like a king.

[Gromdor]

No, labor is product. The worker is not a product. When you go in and apply for a job, the employer will tell you how much you will make. If you agree to those terms you rent your labor to that company for the agreed on price. If youcan't agree or later decide your labor is worth more ou ask for a pay raise or go and find a new job that pays better.

Unions do this for you, as long as you pay your dues and follow their rules. So the question then becomes do you go and find work or higher a union to do so.

This is actually my view on Labor and Unions. Labor is basically a commodity that I sell to my employer. The Union is basically the company or cooperative that does the price negotiations for me for a cut of the profits (my % of union dues). My personal work ethics, training, and attitude is what adds value to my labor.

[danielost]

Labor is not just a product. Those companies don't exist to produce workers. Labor is an integral part of any company....it's the lifeblood of most companies, in fact. Keep thinning the blood, but don't be surprised when the whole body fails.

That is called a recession. The way out of a recession is to lower taxes giving companies more money to hire mre employees. In otger wards cut business expenses that are due to government over site. I am not talking about the safety laws, those are needed.

An example is he city of new york is makeing restruants put calory counts on everyhing on their menus. It has to be the approved font nd background or the restruant has to pay a thousand dollor fine for each offense. Further if they change anything on the menu, they have to start all over.

[Frank Merton]

This is exactly the reason why illegal aliens come here. A dinner for me and the wife can cost me $100 here in the US. That would be a months rent for someone in Vietnam or 50 days wages for someone in Nicaragua. The problem for the average American on minimum wage is that they can't go back to Vietnam and live like a king.

The Vietnamese do it to start a busines in Vietnam, not "live like a king." They have much more work ethic than the typical American like you has.

[Frank Merton]

Regulation of private and public enterprises is needed. There are always bad actors, and people who exploit their workers are among the most vile.

On the other hand, require pay that is more than the enterprise can afford means the enterprise will close than then there are no jobs.

In short, what is needed is careful study of businesses and their practices on a case by case basis, considering need for the economy, possible replacement jobs, and so on. This is not something that should be handled in the political arena but by the bureaucracy. I know that this in an invitation to corruption, which needs attention, but I prefer this over exploitation and ham-fisted politics.

[danielost]

The problem is there are too many regulations in the usa. To start a national company you have to fill in like around fifty or more pages for the app depending on what kind of business. Regulations are laws that the congress didn't vote on.

[Frank Merton]

The problem is there are too many regulations in the usa. To start a national company you have to fill in like around fifty or more pages for the app depending on what kind of business. Regulations are laws that the congress didn't vote on.

The problem is regulation all written down and checked by lawyers and enforced by bureaucrats who protect their rears by following the letter of the regulation rather than its spirit. Bureaucrats should be empowered to make exceptions when in their expert judgment exceptions are called for, but this does not fit the American sense of rule of law so you end up with more and more regulation and less and less freedom and slower and slower growth, with what growth there is being just the cost of compliance with all the rules.

[danielost]

The only thing they are experts at, is making new regulations sound like a good idea. Of course it is the left that believe everything their told by government. This is true no matter the government type of any country.

[spacecowboy342]

The problem is there are too many regulations in the usa. To start a national company you have to fill in like around fifty or more pages for the app depending on what kind of business. Regulations are laws that the congress didn't vote on.

Without regs there would still be inadequate safety equipment and pollutants would still be dumped into the environment.Companys won't do these things themselves

[acidhead]

Without regs there would still be inadequate safety equipment and pollutants would still be dumped into the environment.Companys won't do these things themselves

There already exists the rule of law to protect the individual against violations on property rights.

The regulations mostly protect those who lobbied for the regulations.

The rules favor those who create them.

[Gromdor]

One can live quite well in Vietnam on about $500 a month. Rent for a good house is maybe $100 a month, for a mansion, $1,000 a month. Food is cheap, as is health care. You end up spending money if you insist on having a car (most people use motorbikes and Westerners take cabs).

If it weren't for the tough attitude of the government about visas and foreign ownership of property, I would recommend it as a place to retire.

$1000 a month mansion is living like a king. In New York $1000 a month is a 1 bedroom studio. As for Asian work ethics compared to US work ethics, well I actually agree with you.

[spacecowboy342]

There already exists the rule of law to protect the individual against violations on property rights.

The regulations mostly protect those who lobbied for the regulations.

The rules favor those who create them.

I'm talking about things like OSHA and EPA regs.I work in a dangerous industry with dangerous chemicals.Safety at work and taking care of the environment require regulation