raising minimum wage does not reduce poverty

[spacecowboy342]

Trying it our way? lol you really believe that? We in no way have been trying it "Our" way. If anything we have been increasing government and spending every year. And adding new taxes. How is that our way?

In the 80's we had a short burst of something that was sort of "our" way. And we had a economic boom because of it.

An economic boom because of the hundreds of millions of dollars of "hot checks" Ray-gun was writing by cutting taxes on the rich while expanding the military spending exponentially. This is the beginning of the mess we are in. What you are proposing is just a rehash of Ray-gun's voo-doo economics

[spartan max2]

An economic boom because of the hundreds of millions of dollars of "hot checks" Ray-gun was writing by cutting taxes on the rich while expanding the military spending exponentially. This is the beginning of the mess we are in. What you are proposing is just a rehash of Ray-gun's voo-doo economics

I don't agree with everything he did

but the cold war was going on the soviets were still around that's why military spending increased. And yes lowering taxes helps growth.

And in no way has anything we've done since then been conservative economic philosophy. We have increased government a huge amount and increased spending. Added so many new taxes and raised some. That is not conservative.

Edited September 13, 2013 by spartan max2

[F3SS]

Our way my butt. We have been drenched in liberalism, progressivism and political correctness for quite some time and we are weakened because of it. Just tell me when in our lifetime we have kept a steady practice of limited government, conservatism and constitutional obedience.

[spartan max2]

In fact the states were liberal practices are used the most are falling apart. California and New York are losing so much money. Detroit is destroyed. Its so expensive to live in those places that people are migrating away from them.

The only reason those states stay afloat is because they can take money from the states that are creating revenue.

The states ruled mostly by conservatives, surprise surprise.

http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/why-tax-migration-and-federalism-mean-doom-for-left-wing-states-such-as-new-york-california-and-illinois/

Once again the graph that I keep showing

[ninjadude]

Our way my butt. We have been drenched in liberalism, progressivism and political correctness for quite some time and we are weakened because of it. Just tell me when in our lifetime we have kept a steady practice of limited government, conservatism and constitutional obedience.

You had your chance for 8 years with GWB in charge....

[Frank Merton]

I see a number of states that are not ruled by conservatives (such as Washington and Vermont) that break your rule, and Kansas and Nebraska among other conservative states not doing so well.

I think it mainly reflects the decline of manufacturing jobs. Tax and similar policy may contribute.

[spartan max2]

You had your chance for 8 years with GWB in charge....

Bush does has done the same things Obama has done. As far as I can tell he never left office.

Needless to say he never followed conservative values. He is more liberal then conservative. Just like McCain. The party just wants the votes from the moderates.

[spartan max2]

I see a number of states that are not ruled by conservatives (such as Washington and Vermont) that break your rule, and Kansas and Nebraska among other conservative states not doing so well.

I think it mainly reflects the decline of manufacturing jobs. Tax and similar policy may contribute.

Fair observations.

Vermont may not be conservative in a lot of ways. My main focus when I say conservative is economic.

Vermont's income tax is low compared to most states( and have five different tax brackets). As is Washington's tax, low.

Kansas is higher then Vermont's. As for Nebraska theirs is actually lower then Vermont's, at least income tax so in that case Nebraska is breaking the rule. Oregon breaks the rule too with income tax.

These are all just income tax though, the other taxes effect it as well.

Edited September 13, 2013 by spartan max2

[Frank Merton]

Washington, Wyoming, Texas, Florida and a couple of others I forget have no state personal income tax. There does seem to be some correlation with that.

[F3SS]

You had your chance for 8 years with GWB in charge....

That's hardly a shining example of conservative constitutionalism. Try again.

[spacecowboy342]

I don't agree with everything he did

but the cold war was going on the soviets were still around that's why military spending increased. And yes lowering taxes helps growth.

And in no way has anything we've done since then been conservative economic philosophy. We have increased government a huge amount and increased spending. Added so many new taxes and raised some. That is not conservative.

Well I agree in the cold war era large military spending could be justified. However Reagan in his first campaign promised a balanced budget in 4 years through his growth encouraging tax cuts. Eight years later the deficit was at then record levels(though that level seems rather quaint compared to today) It seems all that was accomplished was cutting of aid to the poor , the rich getting richer and the middle class getting screwed. I would rather concentrate on cutting fraud and waste from the government and getting some sanity in defense spending while making sure the poor can eat. Beyond that as long as we collect enough revenue to reduce the deficit cut all the taxes you want. Cut mine while your at it

[spacecowboy342]

Washington, Wyoming, Texas, Florida and a couple of others I forget have no state personal income tax. There does seem to be some correlation with that.

Washington, Wyoming, Texas, Florida and a couple of others I forget have no state personal income tax. There does seem to be some correlation with that.

It 's true that Texas has no state income tax but our property taxes are off the hook and we have an 8.25% sales tax on everything but food, though I don't know how that compares to other states. Revenues have to come from somewhere.We are funding our schools from property taxes and the lottery. Is it not true that in states with income tax whatever you pay to the state can be deducted from federal taxes, or do I have that wrong?

[spacecowboy342]

That's hardly a shining example of conservative constitutionalism. Try again.

If it gets much more conservative than Bush they'll be replacing the stars on the flag with little swastikas

[acidhead]

It 's true that Texas has no state income tax but our property taxes are off the hook and we have an 8.25% sales tax on everything but food, though I don't know how that compares to other states. Revenues have to come from somewhere.We are funding our schools from property taxes and the lottery. Is it not true that in states with income tax whatever you pay to the state can be deducted from federal taxes, or do I have that wrong?

No deductions .. both are separate. Same here in Canada.

Think of it as being raped twice every year.

[Indiogene]

Whoever continued to work in fast food and retail store jobs beyond their plans as "starter jobs" indicates the economy isn't in their favor, it's hard to find better paid and higher qualification careers these days and lots of people resort to minimum-wage and part-time work (such as myself and my wife) in order to make a living.

Corporations like Wal-Mart and McDonald's for example are able to pay their employees $10-14 a hour varied depending on location and local costs of living. These tight-wad companies claim the jobs are low-skilled and not meant to be permanent, then they claim a large porportion of the employees are teenagers or college students, and that's how come the wages are generally low. Locally, I don't see teenagers working in them, a high porportion tend to be immigrants from Mexico or Central America, and a large share are older adult women who are two-job/ joint-income (along with employed husbands) household earners.

And the critics against raising the minimum wage complain that the price of our Big Macs and button shirts will go up, but if it makes something cost 80 cents to a dollar more than current price, then I don't see a huge price increase, and this is to ensure a better wage for its hard-working employees.

[Frank Merton]

I would imagine a high-income pensioner or investor who can retire almost anywhere would think about local income taxes over other taxes in deciding where to live, and those are the sorts of people a state does best in attracting. They bring in money and don't use schools or welfare and so on.

[F3SS]

And the critics against raising the minimum wage complain that the price of our Big Macs and button shirts will go up, but if it makes something cost 80 cents to a dollar more than current price, then I don't see a huge price increase, and this is to ensure a better wage for its hard-working employees.

Consumers will. I don't like paying $5.80 for a value wall now and I rarely do. Make it $6.80 and it'll be even rarer that I pay if ever at all. And I won't be alone in that and your job will be on the line because of it.

[spartan max2]

If it gets much more conservative than Bush they'll be replacing the stars on the flag with little swastikas

The fact that you even say this makes me think that you dont really have a clue about what conservatism is.if bush is conservative then so is Obama.

[spartan max2]

Well I agree in the cold war era large military spending could be justified. However Reagan in his first campaign promised a balanced budget in 4 years through his growth encouraging tax cuts. Eight years later the deficit was at then record levels(though that level seems rather quaint compared to today) It seems all that was accomplished was cutting of aid to the poor , the rich getting richer and the middle class getting screwed. I would rather concentrate on cutting fraud and waste from the government and getting some sanity in defense spending while making sure the poor can eat. Beyond that as long as we collect enough revenue to reduce the deficit cut all the taxes you want. Cut mine while your at it

We were in a recession before the 80s heading into a depression. Then we had an economic boom and unemplyoment dropped greatly.

But I guess that didnt help the poor any right?

and a large amount of social programs he didn't touch.

[F3SS]

The fact that you even say this makes me think that you dont really have a clue about what conservatism is.if bush is conservative then so is Obama.

Some of these guys mistake republican for conservative. True that a republican is more likely to be a conservative but there's no guarantee. Ninja said the same thing to me last night as if Bush is proof of the absurdity of conservatism. Goodness.

PS: above I said I don't like to pay $5.80 for a value wall. I don't know why because that's a damn good price to build a wall. However, it should have read value meal.

Edited September 14, 2013 by F3SS

[Frank Merton]

Bush was what is sometimes called a "Main Street" Republican, typical of small business owners and not, unlike many Democrats, inclined to have policies that favor big business over small business (Democrats deny this but it is an effect of their regulatory and financial policies).

Therefore Bush opposed minimum wages, in spite of the political advantage. They really are stupid and I think only stupid people support them -- generally because they in their short-sightedness see themselves getting more money. What happens instead is that growth is slowed, small businesses suffer, people get pushed into part-time, and investment in machinery that eliminates such jobs becomes worthwhile.

Minimum wages are an effort to defeat the market, like building dams is an effort to defeat the weather. As such they sometimes seem to work, and can work for extended periods if done intelligently and selectively and, most important, moderately, but that is not what happens and instead they are done ham-fistedly (actually one is better off with no such artificial efforts).

[danielost]

Currently from what I am reading the fast food industry is paying above minimum wage in certain markets, because they can't find any workers. Why do you want to punish those who are working forw more than minimum wage.

[acidhead]

Currently from what I am reading the fast food industry is paying above minimum wage in certain markets, because they can't find any workers. Why do you want to punish those who are working forw more than minimum wage.

The only reason people debate the minimum wage laws is because of purchasing power of the currency and how it relates to said Nation.

As the US$ depreciates other national economies will experience a boom and most others a bust.... Its a game of leverage. Everybody wants to be in american dollars as a safe guard to protect their interests even thou its a risk.

America has the guns. It defends freedom...... the so-called patriotic freedom sold on sitcom, movies and toys.

[spacecowboy342]

Consumers will. I don't like paying $5.80 for a value wall now and I rarely do. Make it $6.80 and it'll be even rarer that I pay if ever at all. And I won't be alone in that and your job will be on the line because of it.

A dollar raise wouldn't require more than a dime cost increase and people might be able to make ends meet without foodstamps. Get over it

[Indiogene]

Currently from what I am reading the fast food industry is paying above minimum wage in certain markets, because they can't find any workers. Why do you want to punish those who are working forw more than minimum wage.

Starting wages for new employees in fast food and retail remain at state minimum wage level. In Southern CA where I'm from, the effect of mass immigration of mainly younger low-skilled workers (esp. farm laborers) reduced average incomes of some regions and drove down wages in a high percentage of local jobs. True, wages tend to be higher in major cities (the L.A. and SF Bay areas) or along the CA coasts, where the average incomes and cost of living are significantly higher. The state's Central (San Joaquin and Sacramento) Valleys, Inland Empire-Deserts and the Sierras/Cascades have a less affluent economic and demographic profile, due to the prevalence of agricultural work and prominence of housing construction in those growing markets (before the Great Recession struck them hard).

Edited October 20, 2013 by Mike D boy