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danielost

raising minimum wage does not reduce poverty

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Yamato

I can agree inflation is the culprit but why must workers be the ones who suffer? I made as much money or more in the eighty's than I do today while the cost of living has skyrocketed.It seems today everything is rigged so the investor class can gain more and more profit while wage earners work two jobs and can't make ends meet

I'm not sure of any unspoken rule that the workers "must suffer". Thanks to our illustrious leaders in govt. employees have been given rights employers don't have, so I don't understand the sentiment.

Class warfare? Inflation harms the poor the most. ;)

Edited by Yamato

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danielost

Can a mod please change the first sentance from minimum wage does to minimum wage does not.

Thank you.

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danielost

F3ss, the only problem with the walmart protesters are that they are paid non-walmart employees.

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danielost

Because the president doesn't want to help the nation's economy. That makes tons of sense. :rolleyes:

I love how you state that as if it's an absolute fact, like "the sky is blue", "rain is wet", "the president doesn't want that to happen". I didn't realize you were one of his most trusted advisers, privy to his every thought and belief.

I don't have to be an adviser. I only have to pay attention. Obama has stated, that it is better to put people on food stamps than for them to find jobs. S for obama care again just pay attention to what is going on. Oh and stop watching msnbc, they twist the facts.

Edited by danielost

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danielost

Keeping the minimum wage low does hurt people. There are a lot of expenses that are not tied to wages. Rent, morgages, gas, electricity, auto insurance, car payments. Do you really think someone working for a minimum wage of $7.00 and hour is better off than someeone working for a minimum wage of $8.00 and hour?

Rent and morgages, go up due to paying higher costs of grass mowing, the price of electricity going up.

All those items you mentioned may not be directly tied to minimum wage but in directly they are. Oh, and property taxes going up.

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spacecowboy342

Rent and morgages, go up due to paying higher costs of grass mowing, the price of electricity going up.

All those items you mentioned may not be directly tied to minimum wage but in directly they are. Oh, and property taxes going up.

People making 7 bucks an hour can't afford property
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spacecowboy342

I'm not sure of any unspoken rule that the workers "must suffer". Thanks to our illustrious leaders in govt. employees have been given rights employers don't have, so I don't understand the sentiment.

Class warfare? Inflation harms the poor the most. ;)

Really?And what rights would those be?

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Agent0range

I don't have to be an adviser. I only have to pay attention. Obama has stated, that it is better to put people on food stamps than for them to find jobs. S for obama care again just pay attention to what is going on. Oh and stop watching msnbc, they twist the facts.

I would really love for you to post a link to that quote.

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Terian

I think unions take credit for what happened naturally as technology improved productive capacity and thereby permitted workers to get more pay. If anything unions tended to prevent such progress.

That is not exactly true.

I live in a part of the country where the coal miners were raped daily before the unions. They worked for pennies a day, were paid in company script that had to be spent at the company store. It was never enough to live on. They ended up getting credit at the company store and eventually became slaves.

The working conditions were dangerous. It was basically a death sentence. Black lung, mine collapses.

It was the unions that brought fairness and safety to them, not the coal companies suddenly growing a heart or a conscience. The workers were outright killed for trying to fight for better conditions.

Perhaps the unions have overstepped in the modern age and have gone completely overboard. BUT, there was a time and a place they did very good things.

Next time you are enjoying your weekend, a holiday and a vacation. Thank a union somewhere.

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danielost

Keeping the minimum wage low does hurt people. There are a lot of expenses that are not tied to wages. Rent, morgages, gas, electricity, auto insurance, car payments. Do you really think someone working for a minimum wage of $7.00 and hour is better off than someeone working for a minimum wage of $8.00 and hour?

I think someone who is working for $8.00 an hour is worse off if the minimum wage goes from $7.00 an hour to $8.00 an hour. This person didn't get a pay raise but has to pay more for everything.

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danielost

Not much building construction going on at this time in the US where jobs for carpenters, welders, pipe fitters, heavy crane operators, pile drivers etc. is concerned. All the above are union trades, unfortunately since theirs not too much happening out there, the unions are basically looking at anything, even if it means going into the fast food sector which are considered entry level jobs, or jobs for students while attending college. It's not the union dues where the unions are making money, but with the investments of money invested in 401ks and retirement plans. It's usually the financial agent that administers and oversees these accounts. Even the middle class is slowly falling away....

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Terian

This is sort of applicable...

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-us-economy-competition-20130905,0,3021712.story

"The United States hit No. 5 on the list of most competitive global economies after dropping for four straight years.

That's according to the World Economic Forum, which moved the U.S. up two slots from last year after concluding that its economic upswing can partly be attributed to an improving financial market.

The four countries ahead of the U.S. are Switzerland, at the top spot, followed by Singapore, Finland and Germany. The Forum calculates each country's global competitiveness by considering factors such as the ability to nurture innovation and the quality of its infrastructure."

Notice anything special about the 4 countries that are better than us?

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questionmark

Daniel: Minimum wages is not about reducing poverty, it is about giving people the chance to eat without food stamps.

And that is what you never consider: You may not pay it through the wages, but you surely will through your taxes with all the friction losses included by having to go through three to five agencies. But you will pay it anyway.

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danielost

Let's not forget that before unions people worked long hours for very little pay often in unsafe conditions and were dismissed for little or no cause and had no benefits such as retirement and insurance. Perhaps unions have overstepped but I think, in general they have done much to improve the lives of working people

Well this is true. We have something they didn't have back then, laws to protect the emplyee.

We keep hearing how the rich are getting richer are getting poorer. This is not true. The three riches people in 1900 were richer, in comperasion, to the top 40 riches people today. At the sametime workers were making $1.00 a day.

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danielost

Daniel: Minimum wages is not about reducing poverty, it is about giving people the chance to eat without food stamps.

And that is what you never consider: You may not pay it through the wages, but you surely will through your taxes with all the friction losses included by having to go through three to five agencies. But you will

pay it anyway.

In either case it doesn't work. More people are on food stamp no than ever before.

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danielost

Yes but Unions are not the problem. It is a symptom of a much greater issue. Inflation.

The two main causes of inflation is higher minimum wage and higher taxes. Both increase the cost of doing business.

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questionmark

In either case it doesn't work. More people are on food stamp no than ever before.

That is not surprising: More people are unemployed than there ever were since the great depression.

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F3SS

People making 7 bucks an hour can't afford property

No but the landlords/property investors can and they will undoubtedly raise the rent according to the cost of upkeep. I do most of my work in multifamily housing and if they aren't slums it cost lots of money for upkeep. They don't do it all 'in-house' so they hire contractors in every conceivable trade to help maintain these properties. I am a contractor, crew of 6 ATM. I do most of my work for just one property management company and they keep us busy year round and I'm just one of many companies they use everyday.

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danielost

People making 7 bucks an hour can't afford property

People making 7 bucks an hour can't afford property

But the person they rent from have to pay the increase in poverty tax. Whch they pass down to the renter. Doesn't matter if the renter is a person or a business. The cosnkt of doing business is always passed on to the costimer.

I have said this many times. You cannot tax a rich person. Becaue they own oe or more businesses and just consider such an increase as a business expence. Doesn't matter if it is a business or personal tax.

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danielost

That is not surprising: More people are unemployed than there ever were since the great depression.

And hat is the government doing to help make jobs. They are increasing income, corpor ate, sales tax on medicl devises. Let's not fofget the thousands of new regultions which also cost time nd money.

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Leonardo

Rasing minimum wage does increase poverty levels and number of people below the poverty line.

Why is this, you ask. Because prices have to go up to cover the new wage.

And this is where the right-wing rhetoric falls down - because, no, they don't.

Prices have to go up if companies want to maintain the same profit margins, but it is a fallacy they have to go up to cover the new wage.

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Bavarian Raven

^ so the company should just willingly accept a smaller profit for the good of someone else? Erm why? That goes against everything we see in the biological world. :s ps - this is the real world here, not some fantasy communist slave world. Bottom line is, if min wages go up so will prices to cover the losses. ;) it's quiet simple.

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Gunn

In either case it doesn't work. More people are on food stamp no than ever before.

Because more people are having to supplement part of there income with food stamps, thus "the why" we need to raise the minimum wage.

And hat is the government doing to help make jobs. They are increasing income, corpor ate, sales tax on medicl devises. Let's not fofget the thousands of new regultions which also cost time nd money.

Well somebody is creating jobs, Daniel. The national unemployment rate keeps falling, slowly but surely. It's now at what? 7.3 percent? When it happens to get below 7.0 (let's say 6.5), and nearly 45 million people are still on food stamps because minimum wage hasn't gone up yet, then what will you say? Still not enough jobs? Okay then, what if the unemployment rate gets below 6.0 percent? Yet still, nearly 45 million people are on food stamps with no increase in minimum wage. What will you say then? My guess, with the logic you presented so far, you'd probably still say - "not enough jobs" - right?

If the current minimum wage worker doesn't get a minimum wage increase, they can not keep up with the rising costs of living. If the cost of living goes up, which it has, after the recession, so should the minimum wage.

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Agent0range

It doesn't always mean smaller profit. With more money available to be spent, there is a good possibility that the company's products will be available to a larger number of people.

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Gunn

^ so the company should just willingly accept a smaller profit for the good of someone else? Erm why? That goes against everything we see in the biological world. :s ps - this is the real world here, not some fantasy communist slave world. Bottom line is, if min wages go up so will prices to cover the losses. ;) it's quiet simple.

The prices have already gone up! It's been that way for the past few years. Currently, somebody is making hugh profits. Sure in the hell ain't the minimum wage worker!

Edited by Purifier
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