Neurosurgeon Speaks On How Vaccines Harm

[rodentraiser]

vaccines are manufactured in china where plants are inspected every thirteen years.

40% of vaccines have been found to be contaminated with viral material that should not have been there.

vaccines manufacturers are immune from liability.

you do not know what is in vaccines because nobody knows, not even the manufacturers.

why should your fear of disease trump someone else's fear of vaccines?

And you don't fear your kids' death from disease? Which, incidentally, is far higher than any risk from the vaccines.

And no the vaccine manufacturers aren't immune from lawsuits. That's why so many of them aren't making vaccines now. But remember, you aren't immune from lawsuits either. So when your kid passes measles onto a pregnant woman who then loses her baby to the disease, I'd think she have a case against you for endangering HER - not your - kid.

[Little Fish]

And you don't fear your kids' death from disease?

no, not as much as i worry about what is in the vaccines.

Which, incidentally, is far higher than any risk from the vaccines.

you are talking about an abstract construct which you could not possibly know the truth of. for a start you would have to know what the risk of vaccines are and you don't. all you know is what is told to you, and it has already been revealed to you that nobody knows what's in the vaccines given that many are made in china that only inspects the plants every 13 years and 40% have been found to be contaminated. the other side of that equation is risk of disease which again you can't possibly know since there are no statistics for infection of people that are not infected. you are basing your statement on your fear and belief, that's it. I need more than faith before i inject a biohazard.

And no the vaccine manufacturers aren't immune from lawsuits.

and yes the vaccine manufacturers are immune from lawsuits.

That's why so many of them aren't making vaccines now. But remember, you aren't immune from lawsuits either. So when your kid passes measles onto a pregnant woman who then loses her baby to the disease, I'd think she have a case against you for endangering HER - not your - kid.

assinine

hmmm, maybe i could sue someone for stealing my disease.

furthermore you are on record stating admitting that vaccines do not give immunity - "A few vaccinations don't take and therefore none of them are valid". so are you going to sue someone who has been vaccinated and gets the disease and passes it to you? good luck proving all that in a court. but don't worry i get your point - persecute and prosecute anyone who questions the vaccine religion. when you've reached that point, you've lost the argument.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Little Fish

[stereologist]

So here is a thread because a single person has turned from medicine to the dark side to sell some crap called "Brain Repair Formula." O brother.

I just love the rather ludicrous claim that autism did not exist before a certain point in time. Is there evidence for that? No.

Take the source of this vaccine panic: Wakefield. His papers have made claims that have not been replicated. His 1992 measles RNA found in Crohn's patients found to flawed. His autism and vaccine paper found to be flawed. What we do know is that Wakefield was paid nearly a million US by lawyers representing families with autistic children that were suing vaccine companies. He lied about being paid. He lied about the amount paid. He lied that his research was approved for human subjects. Wakefield left the UK and moved to the US to work with autism. He has his cadre of believers that apparently don't care about the injuries he inflicted on children in the UK.

Getting back to Blaylock, one of his numerous unsubstantiated and completely false claims is the use of Squalene in US vaccines. That is not true. Blaylock also claims that many vaccines such as that for pertussin often fail. Again, not true.

We do know that Blaylock is a conspiracy fan. He believes that the Soviet Union created the drug culture in the US. He believes epidemics int he US have been masterminded by the Soviet Union. He believes health care reform is directed towards the death of the elderly and sick. He suggests that Obamacare is like the Nazi's plans. Oh, yes. Blaylock is a conspiracy fanatic.

[rodentraiser]

you are talking about an abstract construct which you could not possibly know the truth of. for a start you would have to know what the risk of vaccines are and you don't. all you know is what is told to you, and it has already been revealed to you that nobody knows what's in the vaccines given that many are made in china that only inspects the plants every 13 years and 40% have been found to be contaminated. the other side of that equation is risk of disease which again you can't possibly know since there are no statistics for infection of people that are not infected. you are basing your statement on your fear and belief, that's it. I need more than faith before i inject a biohazard.

If you had read Laurie Garrett's "The Coming Plague", then you'd know what was in those vaccines. Have you read anything at all about which you speak? Have you read books about influenza, smallpox, SARS, polio, measles, and other diseases? Books written by the people who have actually fought those diseases? Have you read Peter Piot's "No Time To Lose"? Richard Preston's "The Demon in the Freezer"? Do you read the weekly Morbidity and Mortality report online? http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/ Do you know anything about the sciences like biology, sociology, medicine? Are you aware of the re-emergence of TB, which is quickly becoming multi-drug resistant? Do you understand that 90% of people exposed to measles will get measles? Are you aware that if a an adult gets chicken pox, he will have the pox in his stomach, in his esophagus, and on the inside of his mouth? Try this:

Chickenpox is often much worse than parents think.

• 1 in 10 unvaccinated children who get the disease will have a complication serious enough to result in a visit to a healthcare provider.
  
• Most children who get chickenpox will have 200-500 sores covering their body.
  
• Before the vaccine, 10,600 persons were hospitalized and 100 to 150 died as a result of chickenpox in the U.S.
  

In comparison, about 1 in 5 children will experience soreness or swelling where the shot was given, 1 in 10 will have mild fever, and 1 in 25 will have a mild rash.

Or this - by the way, that's the percent decrease AFTER vaccination programs:

Disease Baseline 20th Century Annual Cases 2006 Cases Percent Decrease

Measles 503,282 55 99.9%

Diphtheria 175,885 0 100%

Mumps 152,209 6,584 95.7%

Whooping Cough 147,271 15,632 89.4%

Smallpox 48,164 0 100%

Rubella 47,745 11 99.9%

Haemophilus influenzae 20,000 29 99.9%

type b, invasive (HiB)

Polio 16,316 0 100%

Tetanus 1,314 41 96.9%

Or try this - under measles, for example, the risk of a child getting pneumonia because of measles is 6 chances in 100. Dying from measles? 2 chances in 1000. Encephalitis or severe allergic reaction? 1 chance in 1,000,000. And so on down the list:

DISEASE

Measles

Pneumonia: 6 in 100

Encephalitis: 1 in 1,000

Death: 2 in 1,000

Rubella

Congenital Rubella Syndrome: 1 in 4 (if woman becomes infected early in pregnancy)

VACCINES

MMR

Encephalitis or severe allergic reaction:

1 in 1,000,000

--------------------------------

Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis vs. DTap Vaccine

DISEASE

Diphtheria

Death: 1 in 20

Tetanus

Death: 2 in 10

Pertussis

Pneumonia: 1 in 8

Encephalitis: 1 in 20

Death: 1 in 1,500

VACCINES

DTaP

Continuous crying, then full recovery: 1 in 1000

Convulsions or shock, then full recovery: 1 in 14,000

Acute encephalopathy: 0-10.5 in 1,000,000

Death: None proven

Well, you said you wanted statistics.

assinine

hmmm, maybe i could sue someone for stealing my disease.

By the way, kill my kid because you send your unvaccinated kid to school incubating a disease you could have vaccinated for, and you bet your sweet bippy I'll sue you.

Edited September 20, 2013 by rodentraiser

[Peter B]

...think about the stupid logic of the argument -

if you have 6 kids and one dies, then you end up with 5 kids.

if you know your kids are not going to die from disease then you have 5 kids.

so with, or without vaccinations, in each case you are going to have 5 kids that reach adulthood. adults reproduce, kids don't.

so you are doing nothing to affect population.

lies are told to hide the truth.

With respect, there are points about your argument that you're missing.

1. Each extra child means an extra pregnancy and birth, both of which carry risks for the mother. In addition, while the mother is pregnant she is less productive, limiting the economic opportunities for the family.

2. Children are non-productive, and instead consume resources until they're old enough to work. All the resources invested in a child (food, clothing, education, shelter) are wasted if the child dies. The higher the rate of childhood mortality, the riskier it is to invest those resources.

3. The higher the childhood mortality rate, the higher the proportion of a given population which (non-productive) children represent. This means a proportionately smaller number of adults supporting a proportionately larger number of children, meaning less (fewer?) resources per child.

Consider that Cuban citizens are all vaccinated, and despite the American embargo Cubans have a higher life expectancy than Americans. Would you consider Cubans to be stooges of Big Pharma? Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, the world's most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia, has started a vaccination campaign: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-21/indonesia-to-vaccinate-millions-of-children/4972796

[Little Fish]

With respect, there are points about your argument that you're missing.

1. Each extra child means an extra pregnancy and birth, both of which carry risks for the mother. In addition, while the mother is pregnant she is less productive, limiting the economic opportunities for the family.

2. Children are non-productive, and instead consume resources until they're old enough to work. All the resources invested in a child (food, clothing, education, shelter) are wasted if the child dies. The higher the rate of childhood mortality, the riskier it is to invest those resources.

3. The higher the childhood mortality rate, the higher the proportion of a given population which (non-productive) children represent. This means a proportionately smaller number of adults supporting a proportionately larger number of children, meaning less (fewer?) resources per child.

Consider that Cuban citizens are all vaccinated, and despite the American embargo Cubans have a higher life expectancy than Americans. Would you consider Cubans to be stooges of Big Pharma? Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, the world's most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia, has started a vaccination campaign: http://www.abc.net.a...hildren/4972796

how does any of that mean a decreasing childhood mortality rate will decrease third world populations?

[david icke is right]

If you had read Laurie Garrett's "The Coming Plague", then you'd know what was in those vaccines. Have you read anything at all about which you speak? Have you read books about influenza, smallpox, SARS, polio, measles, and other diseases? Books written by the people who have actually fought those diseases? Have you read Peter Piot's "No Time To Lose"? Richard Preston's "The Demon in the Freezer"? Do you read the weekly Morbidity and Mortality report online? http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/ Do you know anything about the sciences like biology, sociology, medicine? Are you aware of the re-emergence of TB, which is quickly becoming multi-drug resistant? Do you understand that 90% of people exposed to measles will get measles? Are you aware that if a an adult gets chicken pox, he will have the pox in his stomach, in his esophagus, and on the inside of his mouth? Try this:

Chickenpox is often much worse than parents think.

• 1 in 10 unvaccinated children who get the disease will have a complication serious enough to result in a visit to a healthcare provider.
  
• Most children who get chickenpox will have 200-500 sores covering their body.
  
• Before the vaccine, 10,600 persons were hospitalized and 100 to 150 died as a result of chickenpox in the U.S.
  

In comparison, about 1 in 5 children will experience soreness or swelling where the shot was given, 1 in 10 will have mild fever, and 1 in 25 will have a mild rash.

Or this - by the way, that's the percent decrease AFTER vaccination programs:

Disease Baseline 20th Century Annual Cases 2006 Cases Percent Decrease

Measles 503,282 55 99.9%

Diphtheria 175,885 0 100%

Mumps 152,209 6,584 95.7%

Whooping Cough 147,271 15,632 89.4%

Smallpox 48,164 0 100%

Rubella 47,745 11 99.9%

Haemophilus influenzae 20,000 29 99.9%

type b, invasive (HiB)

Polio 16,316 0 100%

Tetanus 1,314 41 96.9%

Or try this - under measles, for example, the risk of a child getting pneumonia because of measles is 6 chances in 100. Dying from measles? 2 chances in 1000. Encephalitis or severe allergic reaction? 1 chance in 1,000,000. And so on down the list:

DISEASE

Measles

Pneumonia: 6 in 100

Encephalitis: 1 in 1,000

Death: 2 in 1,000

Rubella

Congenital Rubella Syndrome: 1 in 4 (if woman becomes infected early in pregnancy)

VACCINES

MMR

Encephalitis or severe allergic reaction:

1 in 1,000,000

--------------------------------

Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis vs. DTap Vaccine

DISEASE

Diphtheria

Death: 1 in 20

Tetanus

Death: 2 in 10

Pertussis

Pneumonia: 1 in 8

Encephalitis: 1 in 20

Death: 1 in 1,500

VACCINES

DTaP

Continuous crying, then full recovery: 1 in 1000

Convulsions or shock, then full recovery: 1 in 14,000

Acute encephalopathy: 0-10.5 in 1,000,000

Death: None proven

Well, you said you wanted statistics.

By the way, kill my kid because you send your unvaccinated kid to school incubating a disease you could have vaccinated for, and you bet your sweet bippy I'll sue you.

Send your vaccinated kid near my unvaccinated kid and receives anything i'll sue you.

[stereologist]

Send your vaccinated kid near my unvaccinated kid and receives anything i'll sue you.

The cretins that endanger others by refusing vaccinations are not allowed in our schools. I'm okay with kids being home schooled. Even the private schools in our area turn down those with proof of vaccinations.

The burden of proof for the nitwit without vaccinations is to show that it came from a particular source - the one they are suing. So try and prove that they got something from someone with a vaccination. How idiotic is that position?

I am never surprised by the antics of the anti-vaxers.

[Little Fish]

The cretins that endanger others by refusing vaccinations are not allowed in our schools. I'm okay with kids being home schooled. Even the private schools in our area turn down those with proof of vaccinations.

The burden of proof for the nitwit without vaccinations is to show that it came from a particular source - the one they are suing. So try and prove that they got something from someone with a vaccination. How idiotic is that position?

so you are saying it is impossible to get the disease if you are vaccinated?

so why would vaccine cultists be afraid of unvaccinated kids? it's impossible to get the disease, right?

it's like you are saying vaccines only prevent you infecting others but don't protect you from getting the disease.

[Frank Merton]

I dare say I take most vaccines after reading up about them. The only one I have passed on is the one that prevents the rash one gets in middle age from chicken pox (I forget the name -- starts with an "S" I think). The condition did not seem to be worth the cost.

[Space Commander Travis]

the American Paranoid Right (since it almost invariably is the Right) seem to want to go back to about the 17th century, and delete all advances in medical science since. I think it's because of their belief that all science is an instrument of Satan. I mean, let's look at it rationally, someone (perhaps David Icke) was saying just the other day that vaccine for something or other has been proved to cause narcolepsy. It says that this might occur in, if you look more closely, 1 in 50,000 cases.

[Space Commander Travis]

no, not as much as i worry about what is in the vaccines.

And that's not paranoia?

[Papagiorgio]

I dare say I take most vaccines after reading up about them. The only one I have passed on is the one that prevents the rash one gets in middle age from chicken pox (I forget the name -- starts with an "S" I think). The condition did not seem to be worth the cost.

Shingles?

[stereologist]

so you are saying it is impossible to get the disease if you are vaccinated?

so why would vaccine cultists be afraid of unvaccinated kids? it's impossible to get the disease, right?

it's like you are saying vaccines only prevent you infecting others but don't protect you from getting the disease.

I did not say it was impossible to get diseases if vaccinated. It's simply laughable to call those with the normal intelligence that get vaccines cultists. The cultists are the demagogic anti-vaxers that endanger people.

[Frank Merton]

I think it behooves governments to be sure vaccines are safe and effective before approving them, but I had thought that was already the case. Of course if a disease is dangerous enough the authorities should allow it even if there are problems.

The main problem I see is if people don't get vaccinated, they become a threat to others. A disease can only be eliminated if the susceptible pool is too small to permit the bug's survival.

[Little Fish]

I did not say it was impossible to get diseases if vaccinated. It's simply laughable to call those with the normal intelligence that get vaccines cultists. The cultists are the demagogic anti-vaxers that endanger people.

cultist is a good description for anyone who would threaten and demonise someone who does not share their belief, as we have seen on this thread from the vaccine cultists. there was an opportunity for discussion in the original post to understand the issues, blaylock only takes things that exist in the published scientific literature, in other words he shows the science behind his assertions, he believes it because it is backed by the literature, the cultists couldn't even watch the video, their belief is based on fear and faith.

you implied in your post that it was impossible to get the disease if vaccinated -

" try and prove that they got something from someone with a vaccination. How idiotic is that position?"

Edited September 24, 2013 by Little Fish

[Little Fish]

And that's not paranoia?

notwithstanding I know the detrimental effects of some of ingredients, how is it paranoid when the vaccines are made in china that only inspects the vaccine plants every 13 years and have a track record of low safety standards. I get that it suits your position to imagine that those that question vaccines are only concerned that the gubment are trying to kill everyone with vaccines. it's called hyperbolating your opponents position.

[stereologist]

The anti-vaxers are all across the political spectrum. They are not centrists.

I believe they also are completely clueless about diseases. Not just clueless and irrational, but would like to rewrite history as well. They have no idea the fear that diseases spread. The polio summers in which parents self quarantined their families to avoid being infected was terrible. One of those summers was 1955. Pools were closed. They sprayed for mosquitoes. They increased garbage collection. People kept their kids in the houses and away from friends. They were doing anything they could think of as polio cases increased.

http://shop.wisconsinhistory.org/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=14&idproduct=1487

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_poliomyelitis

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/topics/disease/

The irrational and fumbling claims by anti-vaxers are made today in a world not influenced by the fear of a disease that could not be stopped in 1955. But the actions of anti-vaxers has led to the resurgence of diseases such as whooping cough. Fortunately, I live in an area relatively devoid of the inane notions of anti-vaxers. Thankfully for me there will not be outbreaks of diseases due to the willfully harmful antics of the anti-vaxers.

[stereologist]

I think it behooves governments to be sure vaccines are safe and effective before approving them, but I had thought that was already the case. Of course if a disease is dangerous enough the authorities should allow it even if there are problems.

The main problem I see is if people don't get vaccinated, they become a threat to others. A disease can only be eliminated if the susceptible pool is too small to permit the bug's survival.

There are excellent statistical models of disease that show what fraction of a population needs to be vaccinated to prevent major outbreaks of a disease. The more contagious a disease the greater the fraction has to be. Less contagious diseases require less members of a population to be vaccinated.

[stereologist]

cultist is a good description for anyone who would threaten and demonise someone who does not share their belief, as we have seen on this thread from the vaccine cultists. there was an opportunity for discussion in the original post to understand the issues, blaylock only takes things that exist in the published scientific literature, in other words he shows the science behind his assertions, he believes it because it is backed by the literature, the cultists couldn't even watch the video, their belief is based on fear and faith.

you implied in your post that it was impossible to get the disease if vaccinated -

" try and prove that they got something from someone with a vaccination. How idiotic is that position?"

We know the cultists are the irrational, not too swift proponents of the anti-vax movement. Blaylock is selling some non-scientific bunkum. It's a so-called supplement. It's efficacy is only based on his word, not studies. This is the person you are claiming is basing his claims on literature. All I see in Blaylock is someone exploiting a section of market populated by fools.

No. You made an unwarranted inference. I was discussing someone's rather idiotic assertion about suing someone and making that stick in court. That sort of inability to understand simple concepts is the basis of the anti-vaxer cult.

[Space Commander Travis]

notwithstanding I know the detrimental effects of some of ingredients, how is it paranoid when the vaccines are made in china that only inspects the vaccine plants every 13 years and have a track record of low safety standards. I get that it suits your position to imagine that those that question vaccines are only concerned that the gubment are trying to kill everyone with vaccines. it's called hyperbolating your opponents position.

Surely that's an argument for tightening up standards of supervision and not buying things from the cheapest supplier rather than not vaccinating at all.

[Little Fish]

Surely that's an argument for tightening up standards of supervision and not buying things from the cheapest supplier rather than not vaccinating at all.

it's both.

as long as those raising the issues are put into the "anti-vax" box so the cultists can spit at the box, it is not going to change. as i said before, do you want safe vaccines or dangerous vaccines?

Edited September 24, 2013 by Little Fish

[Little Fish]

It's a so-called supplement. It's efficacy is only based on his word, not studies

I've read both his books, that's not true.

[Frank Merton]

There is always a trade-off between health and safety and regulation. Make the regulations too stiff trying to assure absolute safety and you can end up with the public losing out on great benefits it might have otherwise had. We don't know about the drugs or vaccines that we don't have because they were too expensive to test or were denied us from regulatory overkill.

[Erowin]

you have taken preacherman's quote out of context, go back and read what he was responding to, not what you thought he was responding to.

speculation, the notion that 1 in 50 boys have always been autistic is not merit worthy when autism was not known before the 1930s.

autism was discovered in the 1930s and the initial cases traced back to people involved with use of organic mercury which at the time was a new product used in lumber products, seed fungicide and vaccines. many of those initial cases have been linked back to those 3 exposure mechanisms, it is too significant to ignore, and you are asking those that have that information to ignore it? how does one unlearn something?

many appease their fear by hating wakefield. don't listen to cnn, read his book, you are being lied to. the study was not fake, nor flawed, it was a case series study which proposed a hypothesis to be tested. the guy who claimed it was fake is nothing more than a quote stitching conspiracy theorist.

vaccines are manufactured in china where plants are inspected every thirteen years.

40% of vaccines have been found to be contaminated with viral material that should not have been there.

vaccines manufacturers are immune from liability.

you do not know what is in vaccines because nobody knows, not even the manufacturers.

why should your fear of disease trump someone else's fear of vaccines?

Because I only believe in something if it is scientifically proven. The autism/vaccine link has not been. The original expirement was repeated MANY times by many different people and no one could get the same result he did. In the science community, this means its bunk. Millions of people are vaccinated every year and theres no mass poisioning going on. I'd rather take something almost everyone else does, and turn out ok from, then risk getting a disease that is very much likely to kill or cripple me. Autism can't be traced far, far back because no one knew it was autism. Even today most autistic kids are wrongfully diagnosed as mentally retarded. It can be very hard to tell the difference, especially when they don't have the ability to speak. All cases of mental retardation that DO date back thousands of years included the autism cases. It was just lumped together as being mentally challenged.

Also, here you go. Vaccines de-mystified:

http://en.wikipedia....ine_ingredients

Mercury has not been used in them for quite some time, so if mercury poisioning DID cause autism like those cases you mentioned, that means autism cases should be nearly gone now that the mercury is.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Erowin