Ghosts rockets

[Big Bad Voodoo]

]Ghost rockets[/b] (Swedish: Spökraketer) were rocket- or missile-shaped unidentified flying objects sighted in 1946, mostly in Sweden and nearby countries.

The first reports of ghost rockets were made on February 26, 1946, by Finnish observers.[1] About 2,000 sightings were logged between May and December 1946, with peaks on 9 and 11 August 1946.

Investigations concluded that many ghost rocket sightings were probably caused by meteors. For example, the peaks of the sightings, on the 9 and 11 August 1946, also fall within the peak of the annual Perseid meteor shower.

However, most ghost rocket sightings did not occur during meteor shower activity, and furthermore displayed characteristics inconsistent with meteors, such as reported maneuverability.

Wiki-http://en.wikipedia....i/Ghost_rockets

Hello Umers!

I wonder what you UFO researchers have to say on Ghost rockets especially on bolded.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited September 6, 2013 by Saru
Reduced copied text, the best way to highlight aspects of a Wikipedia article would be to specifically quote those lines using quote boxes rather than reproducing the entire article on the forums.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Proberlly captured V1 and V2 rockets because they were testing them at that time I believe

[zoser]

Proberlly captured V1 and V2 rockets because they were testing them at that time I believe

Erm don't think so. In the TT thread I posted this:

Swedish 'Ghost' Rockets - 1980

At precisely 22:42 in the above clip is an excellent testimony from a couple of hikers who witness a cigar shaped craft hover over them, perform an about turn followed by what the witnesses describe as a controlled landing into a lake. The craft then submerges.

The testimony rules out a man made rocket.

http://www.ghosttheory.com/2012/09/05/ghost-rockets-swedens-ufo-mystery

Edited September 7, 2013 by zoser

[qxcontinuum]

Could have been some new flying machines made be Germans at the end of the ww2 and likely captured by russian or us ? Some antigravity devices , like " the glocke"?

Regardless of those earlier criticisms, today the idea of field propulsion independent of reaction mass is gaining credibility.[citation needed] The Biefeld–Brown effect continues to fascinate those interested in better space propulsion technologies.[22] A 1956 analysis by the Gravity Research Group and by an anonymous writer, under the pen name of Intel (1956), in the magazine Interavia, claimed the Biefeld–Brown effect, then being referred to as electrogravitics,[23] was the primary theory tested by the many aerospace firms studying gravity in the 1950s. However it should be noted that "Intel" was a pseudonym, and therefore may not be a reliable witness.

Edited September 8, 2013 by qxcontinuum

[zoser]

Could have been some new flying machines made be Germans at the end of the ww2 and likely captured by russian or us ? Some antigravity devices , like " the glocke"?

Regardless of those earlier criticisms, today the idea of field propulsion independent of reaction mass is gaining credibility.[citation needed] The Biefeld–Brown effect continues to fascinate those interested in better space propulsion technologies.[22] A 1956 analysis by the Gravity Research Group and by an anonymous writer, under the pen name of Intel (1956), in the magazine Interavia, claimed the Biefeld–Brown effect, then being referred to as electrogravitics,[23] was the primary theory tested by the many aerospace firms studying gravity in the 1950s. However it should be noted that "Intel" was a pseudonym, and therefore may not be a reliable witness.

Any theory has to explain the witness testimonies. One of them is in post 3 and you can go to the link and hear it for yourself.

It's no good proposing a theory that does not match what people saw. No rocket that the Germans or Soviets ever produced was able to hover in mid air, make a controlled landing on a lake and then submerge.

Unless you know of such a rocket?

Edited September 8, 2013 by zoser

[EnderOTD]

That's the fastest I have ever seen a thread derailed man, lol

[zoser]

That's the fastest I have ever seen a thread derailed man, lol

???

Explain.

[EnderOTD]

The OP had to do with the sightings that happened in the 40's 50's, tnrn said that many of said sightings may have been likely early rocket tests, and you posted a sighting in the 1980s that IMO has nothing to do with the OP, completely trying to derail the thread.

[zoser]

The OP had to do with the sightings that happened in the 40's 50's, tnrn said that many of said sightings may have been likely early rocket tests, and you posted a sighting in the 1980s that IMO has nothing to do with the OP, completely trying to derail the thread.

Not quite. The ghost rocket phenomena was not confined to the 40's and 50's. It did continue.

I'm saying it's not that simple.

If a subject is to be examined surely one would need to look at all of the evidence?

Edited September 8, 2013 by zoser

[EnderOTD]

That's just my opinion though. But I would have to agree considering the time, as its after the second world war when many people on both sides of the fence were trying to perfect rocket technology, that many unexplainable sightings likely were rocket tests.

[zoser]

That's just my opinion though. But I would have to agree considering the time, as its after the second world war when many people on both sides of the fence were trying to perfect rocket technology, that many unexplainable sightings likely were rocket tests.

I see your point. I think it is taking a far too isolated view.

Have a look at this:

http://anthonyeccles.wordpress.com/2012/08/08/ghost-rocket-sighting-in-1980s-sweden/

[zoser]

Here is an impression of Liz and Bo Berg's sighting in 1980:

As you can see it is not classic UFO , but is in fact more of a rocket shape. This is the object that they said hovered, made a controlled landing and then submerged in 1980 in Sweden.

Maybe tying the phenomena to the end of WW2 is just a misnomer?

http://www.ufo.se/norrland/

Edited September 8, 2013 by zoser

[zoser]

Just one more point that may be of interest from the link in the OP:

The "ghost rocket" reports were not confined to Scandinavian countries. Similar objects were soon reported early the following month by British Army units in Greece, especially around Thessaloniki. In an interview on September 5, 1946, the Greek Prime Minister, Konstantinos Tsaldaris, likewise reported a number of projectiles had been seen overMacedonia and Salonika on September 1. In mid-September, they were also seen in Portugal, and then in Belgium and Italy.

So it could well be a mistake to limit the ghost rocket phenomena to post WW2 Sweden. It appears to have been a much wider phenomena.

[zoser]

An interesting conclusion:

Perhaps the lingering mystery of the "ghost rockets" was best expressed by Air Engineer Eric Malmberg, once secretary of Sweden's Defence Staff committee on the matter, who was interviewed forty years later. Mr. Malmberg stated:

"I would like to say that everyone on the committee, as well as the chairman himself, was sure that the observed phenomena didn't originate from the Soviet Union. Nothing pointed to that solution.

"On the other hand, if the observations are correct, many details suggest that it was some kind of a cruise missile that was fired on Sweden. But nobody had that kind of sophisticated technology in 1946."

http://www.bibliotec...cument/1946.htm

Reading various sources on the subject there is strong intimation that the phenomena continued well into the 80's. However reports on these later sightings are very difficult to find.

Another quotation from the same source reads:

One sighting, detailed in the FBI report cited above, suggests there may have been more to it:

"On 14, August (1946) at 10 a.m. [a Swedish Air Force pilot]... was flying at 650 feet [200 m.] over central Sweden when he saw a dark, cigar-shaped object about 50 feet [15 m.] above and approximately 6,500 feet [2 km.] away from him travelling at an estimated 400 mph [650 km./hr.]. The missile had no visible wings, rudder or other projecting part;

and there was no indication of any fuel exhaust (flame or light), as had been reported in the majority of other sightings.

"The missile was maintaining a constant altitude over the ground and, consequently, was following the large features of the terrain. This statement casts doubt on the reliability of the entire report because a missile, without wings, is unable to maintain a constant altitude over hilly terrain."

Edited September 8, 2013 by zoser

[zoser]

An excellent write up on the Greek Ghost Rocket phenomena detailing some of the sightings in later decades.

http://www.vembos.gr...ost_Rockets.htm

The more I think about this the more I reach the conclusion that there could well have been some testing of German technology by the Soviets over these territories, but in no way could that account for all of the sightings.

For a start how could the Soviets have made that many launches in one year (1946?).

How could they have perfected contour hugging missiles that early? Why were some seen without exhaust or light emissions?

Edited September 8, 2013 by zoser

[Oniomancer]

An excellent write up on the Greek Ghost Rocket phenomena detailing some of the sightings in later decades.

http://www.vembos.gr...ost_Rockets.htm

The more I think about this the more I reach the conclusion that there could well have been some testing of German technology by the Soviets over these territories, but in no way could that account for all of the sightings.

For a start how could the Soviets have made that many launches in one year (1946?).

How could they have perfected contour hugging missiles that early? Why were some seen without exhaust or light emissions?

Depends on what you mean by contour hugging.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCLOS

[zoser]

Depends on what you mean by contour hugging.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCLOS

The pilot said he saw it below him, and it was clearly responding to elevated terrain. To what degree and accuracy I have no idea. That technology was not available in pilotless flying craft until much later.

[Oniomancer]

The pilot said he saw it below him, and it was clearly responding to elevated terrain. To what degree and accuracy I have no idea. That technology was not available in pilotless flying craft until much later.

If you follow the first 5 links in the last catagory of the one provided, you'll see that isn't necessarily so.

[seeder]

An excellent write up on the Greek Ghost Rocket phenomena detailing some of the sightings in later decades.

http://www.vembos.gr...ost_Rockets.htm

Did you read all the info on the link you provided? You did? Good then you'll have read this bit too - wont you?

What Exactly Happened?

It is very difficult to get a clear picture of what exactly happened during September 1946 regarding the Greek ghost rockets. The only sources are the rather laconic stories in the (few) contemporary newspapers. Military files remain secret –and personally I doubt if they still exist. It seems that some unidentified luminous phenomena were observed over northern Greece –but since we do not have solid documentation, first hand witness testimonies, hard and reliable data in general, we must rely exclusively on these old newspaper accounts.

We must take into account several factors, like the Scandinavian ghost rocket wave which may have affected the way the sightings were reported; also the extremely high tensions in a war-ravaged country where a civil conflict had already started and where a possible communist invasion from the north was believed to be a very realistic possibility. All these must be taken into consideration. It was also a fact that Yugoslavian, Bulgarian and Albanian planes were frequently breaching Greek air space, flying over Northern Greece to parachute military materiel to rebels or for reasons of psychological warfare.

Taking all these into account, we cannot exclude the possibility that maybe natural phenomena e.g. meteors were misinterpreted as “rockets”. Judging by the reported descriptions, no rocket-like objects were really observed. The observational data are quite meager but the existing descriptions talk about flare-like or bolide-like objects which were surmised to be rockets by the observers, the authorities or the media. The fact that the sightings were reported over a very large geographical region may support the meteor theory; a meteor high in stratosphere would have been visible from all parts of Macedonia, and even further away.

[zoser]

If you follow the first 5 links in the last catagory of the one provided, you'll see that isn't necessarily so.

They appear either to be bombs or prototypes that never saw service. The Henschel had no guidance system. I can't see how these are what was flying over Scandinavia.

[zoser]

Did you read all the info on the link you provided? You did? Good then you'll have read this bit too - wont you?

What Exactly Happened?

It is very difficult to get a clear picture of what exactly happened during September 1946 regarding the Greek ghost rockets. The only sources are the rather laconic stories in the (few) contemporary newspapers. Military files remain secret –and personally I doubt if they still exist. It seems that some unidentified luminous phenomena were observed over northern Greece –but since we do not have solid documentation, first hand witness testimonies, hard and reliable data in general, we must rely exclusively on these old newspaper accounts.

We must take into account several factors, like the Scandinavian ghost rocket wave which may have affected the way the sightings were reported; also the extremely high tensions in a war-ravaged country where a civil conflict had already started and where a possible communist invasion from the north was believed to be a very realistic possibility. All these must be taken into consideration. It was also a fact that Yugoslavian, Bulgarian and Albanian planes were frequently breaching Greek air space, flying over Northern Greece to parachute military materiel to rebels or for reasons of psychological warfare.

Taking all these into account, we cannot exclude the possibility that maybe natural phenomena e.g. meteors were misinterpreted as “rockets”. Judging by the reported descriptions, no rocket-like objects were really observed. The observational data are quite meager but the existing descriptions talk about flare-like or bolide-like objects which were surmised to be rockets by the observers, the authorities or the media. The fact that the sightings were reported over a very large geographical region may support the meteor theory; a meteor high in stratosphere would have been visible from all parts of Macedonia, and even further away.

From the same link:

* October, 9, 1954. S. Horiatellis and his 12 year old son were hunting near Stymi village at Lesvos island, northeastern Aegean sea when they a saw a luminous cigar-shaped object moving horizontally. After a while it started moving vertically and it was divided in two. The divided parts were also cigar-shaped and moved in a constant distance from each other.

* Mid-May 1968. At Xiromero, western Central Greece, at 7-8 pm, a car mechanic observed a UFO shaped like a “bullet”. It was hovering vertically and its bottom was flat, emitting smoke and flames. Later the object turned in a horizontal position and flew to the west. The witness was driving his motorcycle during the incident.

And many other similar UFO's...................If you care to read the whole article.

Edited September 8, 2013 by zoser

[seeder]

From the same link:

* Mid-May 1968. At Xiromero, western Central Greece, at 7-8 pm, a car mechanic observed a UFO shaped like a “bullet”. It was hovering vertically and its bottom was flat, emitting smoke and flames. Later the object turned in a horizontal position and flew to the west. The witness was driving his motorcycle during the incident.

And many other similar UFO's...................If you care to read the whole article.

come up with names and actual checkable witness reports - or it didnt happen. If you cant do that, and knowing you - you probably cant, then its just another exaggerated story that youre wasting everyone's time with. Again.

[zoser]

come up with names and actual checkable witness reports - or it didnt happen. If you cant do that, and knowing you - you probably cant, then its just another exaggerated story that youre wasting everyone's time with. Again.

Check out the article. It's well referenced and very detailed. They guy has done his homework and presents the cases in a balanced way.

My purpose for posting it was to make the point that the ghost rocket phenomena was not exclusive to Scandinavian countries. It happened elsewhere and neither was it restricted to 1946.

[Oniomancer]

They appear either to be bombs or prototypes that never saw service. The Henschel had no guidance system. I can't see how these are what was flying over Scandinavia.

Guided glide bombs, one with a range of 12 miles given sufficient drop height. You made a point about some of the GM not having visible exhaust.

At least one of the examples is cited as directly influencing later missile development. Interesting coincidence that we first see these GMs along the borders of the soviet bloc a year and a half after the war in Europe concludes.

Read the article on the Henschel again.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Oniomancer

[zoser]

Guided glide bombs, one with a range of 12 miles given sufficient drop height. You made a point about some of the GM not having visible exhaust.

At least one of the examples is cited as directly influencing later missile development. Interesting coincidence that we first see these GMs along the borders of the soviet bloc a year and a half after the war in Europe concludes.

Read the article on the Henschel again.

This worries me slightly:

One drawback of the Hs 293 was that after the missile was launched the bomber had to fly in a straight and level path at a set altitude and speed parallel to the target so as to be able to maintain a slant line of sight and it could thus not manoeuvre to evade attacking fighters without aborting the attack......

I don't think this is the guilty puppy. Plus being launched from a soviet bomber surely it would have been detected?

Edited September 8, 2013 by zoser