Heartbeat of the Universe.

[Strong Flower]

In this thread I am basically piggybacking off My Scientific description of GOD. Here I will be providing a deeper breakdown of the concept that I am establishing.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, I emphasized that God is the Highest Vibratory Energy and represents that motive that started creation and is continuing with this divine process that we call LIFE or NATURE. God to me is something like what we could call the first impulse of creation. I did some research on this concept and I found:

Theopanism-The belief that the universe emanates from, or is a projection of God

definition 2: which identifies the world as an absolute being, "everything is God"

<I'll start with ancient spiritual traditions and their similar concepts>

Ancient Egypt(Waters of Nun)

The Ancient Egyptians envisaged the oceanic abyss of the Nun as surrounding a bubble in which the sphere of life is encapsulated, representing the deepest mystery of their cosmogony. In Ancient Egyptian creation accounts the original mound of land comes forth from the waters of the Nun. The Nun is the source of all that appears in a differentiated world, encompassing all aspects of divine and earthly existence.

Ancient Egypt(Amen-Ra meaning "hidden sun")

depict as a primeval deity and a symbol of the hidden creative force.

Ancient Egypt(Taurt)

Hippo Goddess Taurt (Tarot) in the center of ancient Dendera Zodiac. She was rendered as a great Bear by astrologers occupying more northerly climes. The ancient term for a bear was "art." The syllable is found in the name Arthur, as in King Arthur, meaning "Bear Man," and also connotes "the first," "the primordial," the "most ancient," as in ark, arche and archetypal, etc. The northern astrological enclosure of the Great Bear Mother is the original "Arcadia" or paradise. The term Ursa (as found in Ursa Minor and Ursa Major) means "little bear."

Hindu(Om)

The syllable "om" is first described as all-encompassing mystical entity in the Upanishads. Today, in all Hindu art and all over India and Nepal, 'om' can be seen virtually everywhere, a common sign for Hinduism and its philosophy and theology. Hindus believe that as creation began, the divine, all-encompassing consciousness took the form of the first and original vibration manifesting as sound "OM".

^{Basic Knowledge of Native American Spirituality}

Indigenous North American belief systems include many sacred narratives. Such spiritual stories are deeply based in Nature and are rich with the symbolism of seasons, weather, plants, animals, earth, water, sky & fire. The principle of an all embracing, universal and omniscient Great Spirit, a connection to the Earth, diverse creation narratives and collective memories of ancient ancestors are common.

^^These are just some basic concepts coming from many popular spiritual traditions outside of modern Abrahamic concepts.

We see that many ancient tradition had the idea that, in simple terms, Nature/The Universe is their God. As we see there are many names that many cultures called this energy or force that initially started creation.(Great Spirit in Native America or Primordial consciousness in India)

I'm dealing with the idea that God is in fact reality, what I love to call the heartbeat of the Universe. That is an energy that was in the beginning that is allowing for life and giving the Sun the ability to shine. God in my opinion is in all and all around.

Is this a much better breakdown of this idea???

Edited September 7, 2013 by Spore

[Beany]

So you call that highest vibratory force God. What if God emanated from that vibration instead of the other way around? I don't disagree with what is basically a theory of energy, but I do think that perhaps naming it God/Brahma/Allah, etc. confers limitations in people's minds about what it is or how it operates, because of our own cultural/religious references. And these references are pretty much stuck in time, there haven't been any new revelations or understandings, or comprehensions in centuries, which again is limiting. This thing, this energy, existed long before religion, yet it some ways various religions claim it as their own simply by naming it and declaring that their name & definition of it is the only valid ones, mired in dogma, failing to contribute anything new to the conversation, definition, explanation, understanding, etc.

[Strong Flower]

So you call that highest vibratory force God. What if God emanated from that vibration instead of the other way around? I don't disagree with what is basically a theory of energy, but I do think that perhaps naming it God/Brahma/Allah, etc. confers limitations in people's minds about what it is or how it operates, because of our own cultural/religious references. And these references are pretty much stuck in time, there haven't been any new revelations or understandings, or comprehensions in centuries, which again is limiting. This thing, this energy, existed long before religion, yet it some ways various religions claim it as their own simply by naming it and declaring that their name & definition of it is the only valid ones, mired in dogma, failing to contribute anything new to the conversation, definition, explanation, understanding, etc.

I use older traditions to varify that older religions had this concept before Judeo Christian ideas.

[Frank Merton]

God is energy? Does God gain entropy and over time become as a result less able to do useful work? Maybe that would explain why there seems to be such a lack of miracles around today.

[Almagest]

Pretty much Pantheism - the professed view of Einstein - god and the universe are inseparable. Its a pretty interesting view that suggests that God cares equally for atoms, humans and galaxies.

The only distinction that I'd draw(personally) is that I don't see the 'first impulse' as being conscious in any way that we understand it. I prefer the term Nature to God. The great creative force has done all that needs to be done - the physical laws sustain our existence and evolution has given us all the tools we need to survive. No divine revelation and no miracles required.

[Strong Flower]

Life and everything plentiful in nature could be a miracle

Edited September 8, 2013 by Spore

[Almagest]

Life and everything plentiful in nature could be a miracle

But doesn't that render the term meaningless? A miracle is supposed to be a suspension of the natural order for a persons benefit. I think the fact that the universe had to go through two generations of stars being born and dying before planets with the right elements for life could arise suggests that we were not the aim of the universes existance.

[Strong Flower]

But doesn't that render the term meaningless? A miracle is supposed to be a suspension of the natural order for a persons benefit. I think the fact that the universe had to go through two generations of stars being born and dying before planets with the right elements for life could arise suggests that we were not the aim of the universes existance.

I deal only with becoming one with the Universe/Nature. After all we are nothing more than reflections of it. I think that enlightenment is the key

[Frank Merton]

I deal only with becoming one with the Universe/Nature. After all we are nothing more than reflections of it. I think that enlightenment is the key

You are enlightened?

[Strong Flower]

You are enlightened?

God is energy? Does God gain entropy and over time become as a result less able to do useful work? Maybe that would explain why there seems to be such a lack of miracles around today.

Although it takes energy to work a miracle.

[Beany]

It's hard to have a discussion about this without reference to a biblical God, since s/he is understood as being akin to human, or human-like.

[Frank Merton]

It's hard to have a discussion about this without reference to a biblical God, since s/he is understood as being akin to human, or human-like.

That is called anthropomorphism (which you no doubt already know), and is seen as primitive by most of us.

[Beany]

That is called anthropomorphism (which you no doubt already know), and is seen as primitive by most of us.

I think once we start anthropomorphizing, we move away from the heart of the issue, but how do we discuss this kind of stuff, then, since we only have our experience of being human to guide us? I'm not sure it's seen as primitive by most, it's how many of us were brought up culturally to think about it, and so deeply embedded in many of us. And it brings people comfort, which maybe is one of the main functions of religion. Nothing wrong with comfort, as long as it doesn't lead us to create discomfort for others over our differences.

[Almagest]

It's hard to have a discussion about this without reference to a biblical God, since s/he is understood as being akin to human, or human-like.

Not necessarily. Who is to say that God has any human traits at all? It might have intelligence that seems despicable, or downright alien, to us. In the pantheistic view God's form is the universe itself. It might communicate using incomprehensibly complex mathematics.

[Frank Merton]

I think it was Spinoza who first point out that the very concept of a god who works in time is anthropomorphic.

Is this wrong -- to picture one's deity anthropomorphically? Does doing so provide comfort? It has to be a lie if there is a God, and of course anthropomorphic gods are just supermen, of our fantasy. I think it is spiritually and certainly intellectually unhealthy, but then I'm an atheist, albeit a spiritual or at least not materialist atheist.

[Nik Xues]

i see god as the first particle. that dot before the big bang. in its limited capacity it pondered every direction it could travel and being unable to choose it chose all of them.

every single particle of energy/matter in the universe is the exact same one moving to many different spots simultaneously.

[markdohle]

If we are made in the image and likeness of God, then perhaps our deepest longins can give us a small light into the matter. Any ideas of God, no matter what they are will be insufficient, since our minds or finite, and God is infinite. We simply do the best we can.

In the scriptures God is said to have no name, but is simple being: I AM. Many people try to make God impersonal, or even less than that, I think that is a way to tame what is untameable.....infinite love can be a scary thing, not something we can box in.

The human heart longs for many things. Love being perhaps the most important, then justice, perhaps this points to some aspects of the infinite. Being a Christian, I believe that Jesus shows us the Father. God uses humam metaphors to help us along the way, but in the end, even a revelation can only tell us so much, the rest we need to experience by ever deeper trust in our relationship with God. Christian mystics, like St. John of the Cross deals with this very well in this book ; "The dark night of the Soul".

Peace

mark

[onereaderone]

God is energy? Does God gain entropy and over time become as a result less able to do useful work? Maybe that would explain why there seems to be such a lack of miracles around today.

that was so bad...( giggles ).... next question will be , how meny hertz is god , and what radio station does he have his call-in-talk show on in my city ?

[onereaderone]

If we are made in the image and likeness of God, then perhaps our deepest longins can give us a small light into the matter. Any ideas of God, no matter what they are will be insufficient, since our minds or finite, and God is infinite. We simply do the best we can.

---- ( snip ) ----

Christian mystics, like St. John of the Cross deals with this very well in this book ; "The dark night of the Soul".

Peace

mark

if god is a non-localized , omni-present , feild of effect ... system of order ... infinite , there is only one of him .

infinites are funny that way... there is only one eternity... if you add two eternitys togather... its still the one.

adding infinites togather does not make them bigger or smaller...

if you fail to define the words you use , you may hug the words and feel fuzzy ... but there is not a loving god in my life because of my personal relationship with fluid dynamics.

energy/time/eternity has a personality . look at the flight of a hummingbird , a beam of light , and propagation of a wave.

in concept ,time is the effect of change on the mind by way of sensor input .

the mind loves change , and feels time greatest in the greatest moments of change.

mass(location)/space/infinity has a character . look at the standing great tree , the orbit of the moon , the flow of particles.

in concept ,space is the ratio of unique points measured in distance relative to each other .

the body lives in space ( not in time) , and resists change ( you eat the same foods, sleep in the same bed ) but effects the world ... while struggling to not be changed by it.

the order , god, is the pattern we see every day , universal , subatomic to cosmic , in speach ... in govermental laws ... in science , industry , in art... order is every where and the fundimental proof of gods presents...

the order between the mind and body that we call personality , soul... or awareness...

awareness is the interface between the mind(time) and body(space)... and

is best exspressed in the form/function { E=Mcc}... where energy(time/eternity)= mass(space/infinity) X [constant Xconstant](order/god/awareness) }

and you can hug this , and you can have a personal relationship with this... but sadly , its not human like , nor does it do magical things to get you out of the problems you do to your self...

and frankly speaking... infinite awareness order on this scale.. is totaly unforgiving, and will make you pay for every insult...

this is order . life is not a tenant , landlord screening process between god and you.

by definition { god = awareness X infinity }

so there is a family resemblance between you and god... but your a fraction of the whole.

but so is there between every atom , and the flight of a hummingbird .

Edited September 9, 2013 by onereaderone

[Beany]

I think it was Spinoza who first point out that the very concept of a god who works in time is anthropomorphic.

Is this wrong -- to picture one's deity anthropomorphically? Does doing so provide comfort? It has to be a lie if there is a God, and of course anthropomorphic gods are just supermen, of our fantasy. I think it is spiritually and certainly intellectually unhealthy, but then I'm an atheist, albeit a spiritual or at least not materialist atheist.

I don't think it's unhealthy. Each of us bring our own knowledge & experience & understanding to it, all at varying levels, and all of us have pieces of it we think we understand. I'm not sure it's possible at time in history to understand more than we do, or think we do, and I can say with certainty, from past experience, that some ideas I hold are wrong. No doubt my ignorance or misunderstanding will be revealed to me sometime in the future, and probably the near future. You know, it seems the minute I open my mouth my foot starts moving towards it.

[Strong Flower]

If we are made in the image and likeness of God, then perhaps our deepest longins can give us a small light into the matter. Any ideas of God, no matter what they are will be insufficient, since our minds or finite, and God is infinite. We simply do the best we can.

In the scriptures God is said to have no name, but is simple being: I AM. Many people try to make God impersonal, or even less than that, I think that is a way to tame what is untameable.....infinite love can be a scary thing, not something we can box in.

The human heart longs for many things. Love being perhaps the most important, then justice, perhaps this points to some aspects of the infinite. Being a Christian, I believe that Jesus shows us the Father. God uses humam metaphors to help us along the way, but in the end, even a revelation can only tell us so much, the rest we need to experience by ever deeper trust in our relationship with God. Christian mystics, like St. John of the Cross deals with this very well in this book ; "The dark night of the Soul".

Peace

mark

I do think love is one of the basic elements that makes up GOD's energy. One thing we have to remember, early hu'mans were much more connected to the Universe. God was anthropomorphized, shown as animals,trees,Sun,Moon,shapes etc...

I'm identifying that many ancient spiritual systems had similar outlooks of who GOD is- that is a Primordial power/energy/consciousness.

[Grandpa Greenman]

I'm a Pantheist, my view of God is it not a separate being from the Universe it is the Universe. Creation is really birth. Whether or not the Universe is sentient is in my thought, I am a part of the Universe and I am sentient, so through me and other sentient life forms the Universe is sentient. As I have stated before, I am the evolution of the Universe to reflect upon itself. All life is the Universe viewing itself.

[Frank Merton]

When I was a teenager I imagined the universe is God making himself. I know -- that is not original and is a bit sophomoric

I've already expressed my problem with pantheism, namely that I don't see how God could communicate with itself considering the time it takes for information to travel such distances..

[Grandpa Greenman]

When I was a teenager I imagined the universe is God making himself. I know -- that is not original and is a bit sophomoric

I've already expressed my problem with pantheism, namely that I don't see how God could communicate with itself considering the time it takes for information to travel such distances..

You are thinking of God being a separate being outside the Universe. God is not separate from the Universe, God is the Universe. We are an aspect of the Universe in that since we are God. To communicate with the Universe (God) we communicate with ourselves. Think of your body, all the parts of it make you. All the parts of the Universe makes what we call God. I don't think we really communicate any more than we communicate with a cell in our brain. But we need brain cells to help us make since of the world and create thought.

Space is not empty it is full of energies and particles of all kinds. Some we know about, some we are just discovering. As we explore the very small and large we are the eyes of the Universe looking at itself. Then there is quantum entanglement thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

[Frank Merton]

Brain cells communicate with each other several ways. What the hell are you thinking?

I don't think you understand the reality of space/time and the fact that signals are limited to the speed of light. I think a little education in reality might tend to curb your wild speculation.