Gunn Posted September 17, 2013 #51 Share Posted September 17, 2013 The "Obamacare debate" can be boiled down to this: Is money more important than people, or people more important than money? When I was young it use to be all about the benjamins (slang for 100 dollar bills). Now, I find health, happiness and life itself more important than material gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent0range Posted September 17, 2013 #52 Share Posted September 17, 2013 90% of Americans were happy with the old system. No system is perfect. ObamaCare Debate: do we want the iPAB rationing healthcare? Get out of here with your 90% BS. You have been asked once to provide your source on that number and didn't come through. So, here, I will help you with that. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/on-health-care-the-public-doesnt-like-its-options/2012/06/27/gJQA8Hbq5V_blog.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberKen Posted September 17, 2013 Author #53 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Get out of here with your 90% BS. You have been asked once to provide your source on that number and didn't come through. So, here, I will help you with that. http://www.washingto...Hbq5V_blog.html What are we going to do about the iPAB? According to Democrat Howard Dean: iPAB will stop certain treatments by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them. You want rationing? That sounds like the NHS in Great Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent0range Posted September 17, 2013 #54 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I never said the whole thing was perfect. It's not. But don't come in here stating numbers that are not even close to the actual truth. If you post a stat that is 40 percentage points from the truth, what does that do for the credibility of anything you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberKen Posted September 17, 2013 Author #55 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I never said the whole thing was perfect. It's not. But don't come in here stating numbers that are not even close to the actual truth. If you post a stat that is 40 percentage points from the truth, what does that do for the credibility of anything you say? Perfect? iPAB is going to pull the plug on grandma! Death Panels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent0range Posted September 17, 2013 #56 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Perfect? iPAB is going to pull the plug on grandma! Death Panels Let me put this in perspective for you. Dean says that iPAB will "stop certain treatments its members do not favor by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them", right? The people that will be under Obamacare are people who are currently uninsured. You can set a rate to $1 billion for someone who is uninsured, but you will still get the same return on the services as if the rate was $10,000. $49 billion in medical bills go unpaid every year, YET DOCTORS STILL PERFORM THE NECESSARY PROCEDURES. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberKen Posted September 17, 2013 Author #57 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Let me put this in perspective for you. Dean says that iPAB will "stop certain treatments its members do not favor by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them", right? The people that will be under Obamacare are people who are currently uninsured. You can set a rate to $1 billion for someone who is uninsured, but you will still get the same return on the services as if the rate was $10,000. $49 billion in medical bills go unpaid every year, YET DOCTORS STILL PERFORM THE NECESSARY PROCEDURES. Yes, it is called defensive medicine because of the lawyers. Congress needs to start over and add - Tort Reform -. They left that out because Obama is in bed with the trial lawyers. Repeal and Replace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent0range Posted September 17, 2013 #58 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Yes, it is called defensive medicine because of the lawyers. Congress needs to start over and add - Tort Reform -. They left that out because Obama is in bed with the trial lawyers. Repeal and Replace! And you think defensive medicine will just cease to exist? I also see you added in a repeal and replace there. How many politicians are throwing out better ideas? Lately with republicans, it is all or nothing, which just doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted September 17, 2013 #59 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Yes, it is called defensive medicine because of the lawyers. Congress needs to start over and add - Tort Reform -. They left that out because Obama is in bed with the trial lawyers. Repeal and Replace! Looking back at history: If repealed it will take another 20 years to get a new law on the way. And that is something the roughly 75% who don't want it repealed know. It is not the first time that affordable healthcare was tried, it was the 4th time since Roosevelt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberKen Posted September 17, 2013 Author #60 Share Posted September 17, 2013 And you think defensive medicine will just cease to exist? I also see you added in a repeal and replace there. How many politicians are throwing out better ideas? Lately with republicans, it is all or nothing, which just doesn't work. The first step has already been taken in Texas. They passed tort reform. Many doctors moved to Texas! Texas is leading the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted September 17, 2013 #61 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) Repeal and Replace! Why is this now the Republican mantra regarding the ACA? Wasn't the Republican position just to repeal? Why now add "and replace"? And wouldn't it be funny if they wanted to replace what's now in place, with what was originally proposed before it was decimated in passing through into law? Edited September 17, 2013 by Leonardo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberKen Posted September 17, 2013 Author #62 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Why is this now the Republican mantra regarding the ACA? Wasn't the Republican position just to repeal? Why now add "and replace"? And wouldn't it be funny if they wanted to replace what's now in place, with what was originally proposed before it was decimated in passing through into law? It was always repeal and replace. You just weren't listening. The replacement includes : Tort Reform It's already working in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted September 18, 2013 #63 Share Posted September 18, 2013 The "Obamacare debate" can be boiled down to this: Is money more important than people, or people more important than money? That would be a health care debate. It's not as if Obamacare is the only way to reform health care. Harte 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadude Posted September 18, 2013 #64 Share Posted September 18, 2013 So what is the problem people not having healthcare or medical costs being to high? If Obamacare is going to make medical costs go down, if the all powerful government can do that why don't they? without putting more control over us? If Obamacare isn't going to reign in medical costs then how the hell are we going to pay for all of this? Both. Obamacare has provable slowed the rate of medical costs going up. Why would think the government could "make" costs go down immediately? You've been infected by the "mcdonalds" generation of "i want it now". The government has not really put "more control over us". They created regulation for insurance companies so that they all play by the same rules. It has been know for YEARS now how it would be paid for. There are a number of sources of revenue including amongst other things - higher rates on "cadilac" plans. The mandate is NOT a significant source of revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadude Posted September 18, 2013 #65 Share Posted September 18, 2013 90% of Americans were happy with the old system. in 2008/2009 they were not. and before that most republicans were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadude Posted September 18, 2013 #66 Share Posted September 18, 2013 You want rationing? We've already had rationing for decades. It sounds like you really don't know about healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadude Posted September 18, 2013 #67 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Congress needs to start over and add - Tort Reform -. They left that out not really. no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadude Posted September 18, 2013 #68 Share Posted September 18, 2013 The replacement includes : Tort Reform tort reform is not a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted September 18, 2013 #69 Share Posted September 18, 2013 That would be a health care debate. It's not as if Obamacare is the only way to reform health care. Harte Yes but lets have a look at who had the guts to put it on the table in the last 30 years: Bill and Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney and Obama. Everybody else just ducks, nods it off when presented on the hill and then starts protesting. Do you know that the great US of A is the last of the developed countries where people could (can) not afford necessary medical procedures? Nothing to be proud of. And the problem was first recognized in the 1930s. Not last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberKen Posted September 18, 2013 Author #70 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Yes but lets have a look at who had the guts to put it on the table in the last 30 years: Bill and Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney and Obama. Everybody else just ducks, nods it off when presented on the hill and then starts protesting. Do you know that the great US of A is the last of the developed countries where people could (can) not afford necessary medical procedures? Nothing to be proud of. And the problem was first recognized in the 1930s. Not last year. Obama admitted that ObamaCare is just a stepping stone to bringing the Canadian Public Option down to the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted September 18, 2013 #71 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Obama admitted that ObamaCare is just a stepping stone to bringing the Canadian Public Option down to the USA. If others wanted something else they should have put it on the table instead of procrastinating for 70 years. Its not good, but it is something more than what we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberKen Posted September 18, 2013 Author #72 Share Posted September 18, 2013 If others wanted something else they should have put it on the table instead of procrastinating for 70 years. Its not good, but it is something more than what we had. So you really want the IRS terrorizing Americans about their healthcare??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted September 18, 2013 #73 Share Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) So you really want the IRS terrorizing Americans about their healthcare??? Terrorizing? Getting money from people for failing to obey the law is not terrorizing. No more so than fining those who have not paid their taxes. But I know, you also want taxes abolished. As I said: Want something better? Put it on the table. I am waiting (and so is ~75% of the country). And not in 20 years. Edited September 18, 2013 by questionmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberKen Posted September 18, 2013 Author #74 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Terrorizing? Getting money from people for failing to obey the law is not terrorizing. No more so than fining those who have not paid their taxes. But I know, you also want taxes abolished. As I said: Want something better? Put it on the table. I am waiting (and so is ~75% of the country). And not in 20 years. More Bad News for Obama: AFL-CIO passed a resolution at its recent convention calling the impact of ObamaCare "highly disruptive" to union health care plans. Highly Disruptive = Delay the whole damn thing for 1 year or Repeal ObamaCare altogether We will have an answer by October 1, 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah65 Posted September 18, 2013 #75 Share Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) The only cure for this is a system of healthcare not based on profit over life needs. I hear the reasons...."Med school is expensive, the Doctors deserve the right to profit from their educational investments"... Ok...then make med school free....you take a test, if you have the aptitude for medicine...then you go to school....you become an intern and one day you become a doctor...there are so may layers as to why our healthcare is so expensive...and part of it is the cost of education....part of it is the cost of supplies and part of it is the cost of pharmaceuticals. I am not saying I agree with any of this...but from the outside the box point of view....you lower the costs of healthcare by lowering the costs of what is required to become a healthcare provider....pretty simple if you think of it in those terms...in my opinion, anyone that becomes a doctor to make money is prob going to be a very p!ss poor doctor...you want doctors that actually care about human beings and want to save and improve lives...not bankroll a wad of cash... just a thought... Edited September 18, 2013 by Jeremiah65 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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