[Merged] Poll: 53% disapprove of ObamaCare

[Agent0range]

Employees pay a portion of healthcare at all jobs that offer it.

Once again you are losing focus of what I said. I said no changes for a company that already offers healthcare or an employee that already receives it. You are bringing up a company that just started offering healthcare TODAY. It is really no surprise that you dance around my point instead of addressing it, it is clear that is what you do in every single thread.

[CyberKen]

Employees pay a portion of healthcare at all jobs that offer it.

Once again you are losing focus of what I said. I said no changes for a company that already offers healthcare or an employee that already receives it. You are bringing up a company that just started offering healthcare TODAY. It is really no surprise that you dance around my point instead of addressing it, it is clear that is what you do in every single thread.

Stop ignoring iPAB.

I can already see the long lines and the pain pills being handed out.

[questionmark]

Unaffected? Oh no, we just now got a memo from iPAB. Sorry, we can't help you with that specific procedure.

They told us to give you a pain pill instead. Have a nice day.

WSJ:The new Walgreens Plan is to protect the company from rising health care costs.

Now who will cover the costs? - The Employees -

This just gets better and better. Doesn't it?

Walgreen Justification: We had to do this because of ObamaCare compliance-related expenses. That is straight from the CEO.

I guess you have not read the article in the WSJ?

because this is what it reports:

Walgreens to Change Employee Health Benefits Under Obamacare

Walgreens is set to make major changes to the medical benefits it provides to employees when Obamacare goes into effect in January.

The drugstore giant is expected to unveil a plan Wednesday that would give payments to eligible employees for the subsidized purchase of health coverage on private insurance exchanges, reports The Wall Street Journal.

Walgreens is the latest company to make changes to their benefits, joining IBM, Time Warner, Sears and Darden Restaurants, who have all said they will move employees to a private exchange.

Read more

(I have taken the Newsmax report because I don't think that all have a subscription to the WSJ as I do)

They are quitting their own plan because Obamacare will be cheaper and therefore will give their employees an extra payout so they can afford to get healthcare through the exchanges.

A far cry from what you want to sell us here.

Edited September 18, 2013 by questionmark

[CyberKen]

I guess you have not read the article in the WSJ?

because this is what it reports:

They are quitting their own plan because Obamacare will be cheaper and therefore will give their employees an extra payout so they can afford to get healthcare through the exchanges.

A far cry from what you want to sell us here.

The exchanges will ration care. There's a new sheriff in town and his name is iPAB.

[questionmark]

The exchanges will ration care. There's a new sheriff in town and his name is iPAB.

Is that all you can comment about the deed that you evidently were reporting some non-factual hearsay?

[CyberKen]

Is that all you can comment about the deed that you evidently were reporting some non-factual hearsay?

So, there is no iPAB?

I thought iPAB stands for Independent Payment Advisory Board ?

Howard Dean calls it a Death Panel. What is he talking about?

Is Howard Dean a doctor?

[questionmark]

So, there is no iPAB?

I thought iPAB stands for Independent Payment Advisory Board ?

Howard Dean calls it a Death Panel. What is he talking about?

Is Howard Dean a doctor?

I am talking about your claim about the 30 hour thingy. Or are you suffering under amnesia?

[CyberKen]

I am talking about your claim about the 30 hour thingy. Or are you suffering under amnesia?

The unions have already spoken. They don't want their hours reduced.

BTW, nobody likes the iPAB. That's why you are ignoring it.

Will they pull the plug on YOUR grandma?

[questionmark]

The unions have already spoken. They don't want their hours reduced.

BTW, nobody likes the iPAB. That's why you are ignoring it.

Will they pull the plug on YOUR grandma?

Well, the Unions seem to have spoken about something that was not in the WSJ then... go figure.

[ninjadude]

The only cure for this is a system of healthcare not based on profit over life needs.

Ok...then make med school free....

what are you a socialist!!!

[ninjadude]

The exchanges will ration care.

the exchanges do not ration anything. And we ALREADY have rationing. I've told you this before.

[ninjadude]

So, there is no iPAB?

I thought iPAB stands for Independent Payment Advisory Board ?

Gee oooohh scary

With regard to IPAB's recommendations, the law says "The proposal shall not include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums under section 1818, 1818A, or 1839, increase Medicare beneficiary cost sharing (including deductibles, coinsurance, and co-payments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria."^[10] The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) must implement these proposals unless Congress adopts equally effective alternatives. The board is also required to submit to Congress annual reports on health care costs, access, quality, and utilization. IPAB must submit to Congress recommendations on how to slow the growth in total private health care expenditures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Payment_Advisory_Board

[Yamato]

what are you a socialist!!!

Has ANYTHING Obama has done while being in Office concern you?

[Jeremiah65]

what are you a socialist!!!

LMAO...not even close!

What i try to do Ninjadude is put it all on the table. You put it all out there and you look for solutions...sometimes answers can be found in unlikely places. I know this is going to come as an absolute shocker to you, but my life is not all about how much money I have or how much "stuff" I have accumulated...I know the Repubs and the Libertarians get that label alot, but that is just not the case for this boy. I am by far more concerned with freedom than I am with wealth....I know, prob hard to see...

I am more in line with "let people be free and they will find a way"...

As far as the case of the rising costs of healthcare....you have to analyze the "why"....why is healthcare getting more and more expensive?...You cannot address a problem until you figure out what is causing it...just throwing money at it is obviously not fixing the root cause or problem...

[CyberKen]

Has ANYTHING Obama has done while being in Office concern you?

I still have a problem with Fast & Furious.

The list is long after that.

[Agent0range]

LMAO...not even close!

What i try to do Ninjadude is put it all on the table. You put it all out there and you look for solutions...sometimes answers can be found in unlikely places. I know this is going to come as an absolute shocker to you, but my life is not all about how much money I have or how much "stuff" I have accumulated...I know the Repubs and the Libertarians get that label alot, but that is just not the case for this boy. I am by far more concerned with freedom than I am with wealth....I know, prob hard to see...

I am more in line with "let people be free and they will find a way"...

As far as the case of the rising costs of healthcare....you have to analyze the "why"....why is healthcare getting more and more expensive?...You cannot address a problem until you figure out what is causing it...just throwing money at it is obviously not fixing the root cause or problem...

I believe I posted why healthcare is getting so expensive. There are 50 million uninsured Americans that rack up $49 billion in unpaid medical bills YEARLY. Those losses are passed on to the insured through higher costs of procedures. Therefore, insurance rates go up with the higher procedure costs. If everyone was insured (although it might not happen instantly) costs of procedures SHOULD drop, bringing down insurance premiums.

[Leonardo]

I believe I posted why healthcare is getting so expensive. There are 50 million uninsured Americans that rack up $49 billion in unpaid medical bills YEARLY. Those losses are passed on to the insured through higher costs of procedures. Therefore, insurance rates go up with the higher procedure costs. If everyone was insured (although it might not happen instantly) costs of procedures SHOULD drop, bringing down insurance premiums.

Hospitals, clinics and surgeries have indemnity insurance against non-payment of bills. While this might not cover all that $49billion, it probably does cover a lot of it. This insurance may not be (probably is not) held through healthcare insurance providers, so they may not bear any cost of those unpaid bills.

While having everyone insured might bring down the cost of healthcare slightly (because bills will be paid) it might actually increase the cost of healthcare insurance because now those insurance providers have to foot the bills. This increased expenditure for them would probably outweigh savings from the cost of surgical procedures dropping.

The only guaranteed way of reducing the cost of insurance, is for tighter regulation and strict enforcement of that.

[CyberKen]

Hospitals, clinics and surgeries have indemnity insurance against non-payment of bills. While this might not cover all that $49billion, it probably does cover a lot of it. This insurance may not be (probably is not) held through healthcare insurance providers, so they may not bear any cost of those unpaid bills.

While having everyone insured might bring down the cost of healthcare slightly (because bills will be paid) it might actually increase the cost of healthcare insurance because now those insurance providers have to foot the bills. This increased expenditure for them would probably outweigh savings from the cost of surgical procedures dropping.

The only guaranteed way of reducing the cost of insurance, is for tighter regulation and strict enforcement of that.

The Republicans have offered a new solution that - replaces - ObamaCare.

1- Medical Liability Reform : Tort Reform - it has already been done in Texas

2- Elimination of restrictions on purchasing insurance across state lines

3- Health Savings Accounts

Repeal & Replace ObamaCare

[Agent0range]

Here are some great facts...

• The lost productivity of uninsured Americans costs the economy up to $130 billion dollars a year — more than the estimated cost to cover the uninsured.
  
• Covering the bills of the uninsured increases the annual health premiums for the average family by $922.
  
• Hospitals typically charge uninsured patients 2.5 times what they charge privately insured patients.
  
• Uninsured adults are 4.5 times more likely to go without medical care than insured adults.
  
• Uninsured cancer patients are nearly twice as likely to die within five years as insured patients.
  
• Over half a million Americans are currently battling cancer without insurance.
  
• Among non-elderly adults, the lack of health insurance is the sixth leading cause of death in America.
  

Now keep in mind, this article was written in 2009. Since then, the unpaid medical bills of the uninsured have risen by more than $10 billion per year. So, how much of my insurance premium is covering the uninsured right now?

Source: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08212009/profile2.html

[questionmark]

1- Medical Liability Reform : Tort Reform - it has already been done in Texas

Ah, yes, Texas the shining light of healthcare:

37 percent of uninsured U.S. children live in Calif., Fla., Texas

WASHINGTON, Sept. 18 (UPI) -- More than 87 percent of U.S. children eligible for public health insurance programs in 2011 were enrolled -- an increase since 2008, a non-profit group says.

Researchers at the Urban Institute said 81.5 percent of children were enrolled in Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program in 2009, and that figure increased 5.5 percentage points by 2011 to 87 percent.

The increase was likely attributable to state and federal efforts to raise awareness of the availability of public insurance programs for kids, as well as increased enrollment assistance for parents, the researchers said.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2013/09/18/37-percent-of-uninsured-US-children-live-in-Calif-Fla-Texas/UPI-94791379548770/#ixzz2fN1Tkm5c

[CyberKen]

Here are some great facts...

• The lost productivity of uninsured Americans costs the economy up to $130 billion dollars a year — more than the estimated cost to cover the uninsured.
  
• Covering the bills of the uninsured increases the annual health premiums for the average family by $922.
  
• Hospitals typically charge uninsured patients 2.5 times what they charge privately insured patients.
  
• Uninsured adults are 4.5 times more likely to go without medical care than insured adults.
  
• Uninsured cancer patients are nearly twice as likely to die within five years as insured patients.
  
• Over half a million Americans are currently battling cancer without insurance.
  
• Among non-elderly adults, the lack of health insurance is the sixth leading cause of death in America.
  

Now keep in mind, this article was written in 2009. Since then, the unpaid medical bills of the uninsured have risen by more than $10 billion per year. So, how much of my insurance premium is covering the uninsured right now?

Source: http://www.pbs.org/m...9/profile2.html

ObamaCare Facts by the LA Times:

The doctor can't see you now.

Consumers could see long wait times, a scarcity of specialists and loss of a longtime doctor.

Hey, that sounds like the Public Option in Canada.

Long wait times = Call the Medical Tourism Company - then fly to........Texas for surgery!

[Agent0range]

ObamaCare Facts by the LA Times:

The doctor can't see you now.

Consumers could see long wait times, a scarcity of specialists and loss of a longtime doctor.

Hey, that sounds like the Public Option in Canada.

Long wait times = Call the Medical Tourism Company - then fly to........Texas for surgery!

Everything you post is simply speculation with no facts or examples to back it up. Your posts are full of whatifs, and that is no way to measure something like this.

[CyberKen]

Everything you post is simply speculation with no facts or examples to back it up. Your posts are full of whatifs, and that is no way to measure something like this.

The article is from the LA Times newspaper. Perhaps you have heard of it???

To hold down premiums, major insurers in California have sharply limited the number of doctors and hospitals available to patients.

Translation: Take a number. The doctor will see you ??????? Hard to say.

BTW, we just got another memo from iPAB. It's not good.

They told us to give you a cheap pain pill. Have a nice day!

Is the LA Times just making stuff up ???

Read here:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-insure-doctor-networks-20130915,0,2814725.story

We ALL saw this coming. Please put down the Obama Kool-Aid.

ObamaCare is a train wreck. Ask Democrat Senator Max Baucus.

Edited September 19, 2013 by CyberKen

[Leonardo]

The article is from the LA Times newspaper. Perhaps you have heard of it???

To hold down premiums, major insurers in California have sharply limited the number of doctors and hospitals available to patients.

Because the doctors/hospitals they don't list are all too expensive, so including them would increase the premiums.

[ninjadude]

Has ANYTHING Obama has done while being in Office concern you?

lots of stuff. What does that have to do with it?