What do Americans make of evolution?

[Angel1510]

Not sure if this is the correct place to put this but there's a new poll out today:-

http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/9/13/bill-nye-on-evolution-poll-shows-people-can-see-and-accept-it-as-fact-of-life

It never ceases to amaze me how people can just ignore scientific fact.

[Rafterman]

Religion and science is a complicated issue and I'm not sure a single poll can get to the heart of it.

I also find that the average person tends to lean toward the scientific, but they also seem to hold onto at least one "anti-science" view. And this is regardless of political ideology (as most of these arguments try to paint it as a fault of the right in the US). Sometimes I think the far left and the far right meet in the anti-science realm.

Case in point - I have fairly far left coworkers who like nothing more than to get their jollies off of those "dumb Republicans and Christians" who don't believe in evolution and climate change. But yet those same people have very anti-science viewpoints of things like vaccinations and GMOs.

[Angel1510]

Polls are always a bit dubious. If I went into a church and polled 100 people I would come up with a very different result so unless you know the complete demographic you can't really use it as a clear marker of general public opinion. Politicians historically manipulate polls in this way. I myself would never dispute sound proven scientific evidence but I am probably amongst the many that also like to believe there is something else out there. Until it can be proven scientifically, it will only be a belief and not a fact and I will always have to question it.

[questionmark]

Polls are always a bit dubious. If I went into a church and polled 100 people I would come up with a very different result so unless you know the complete demographic you can't really use it as a clear marker of general public opinion. Politicians historically manipulate polls in this way. I myself would never dispute sound proven scientific evidence but I am probably amongst the many that also like to believe there is something else out there. Until it can be proven scientifically, it will only be a belief and not a fact and I will always have to question it.

That is why you make representative polls, that is on engineered in such a way that in theory everybody could have answered it.

To the theme itself, well that is easy understandable when we read this report

For those who don't want to bother let me present this excerpt:

On the PISA 2006 assessment, 15-year-old students in Canada

and Japan scored higher, on average, than their peers in all other

G-8 countries on the combined science literacy scale. The United

States scored lower, on average, than their peers in the United

Kingdom, Germany, Japan, and Canada

Summarizing: It is unfair to ask people about something they neither understand nor are adequately trained in.

[Angel1510]

Summarizing: It is unfair to ask people about something they neither understand nor are adequately trained in.

But surely evolution is so fundamental, it is taught in schools around the world.

[questionmark]

But surely evolution is so fundamental, it is taught in schools around the world.

I would not say it is fundamental, biology is fundamental. And if you don't understand Mendel's hereditary biology you will never understand evolution.

Well, most the majority remember about biology is that they had to dissect a frog, and a great percentage of those who don't remember anything about biology could not even explain why they had to do it. Mendel sounds like some kind of Jewish pastry to them.

[Angel1510]

Maybe I should have said it is taught in schools which aren't church run schools!

[Drayno]

The thing about Americans is that we're all so very divided on many issues, including religion.

I would say that there are a large number of fundamentalists, atheists, agnostics, and protestants.

Like questionmark said, polls are only effective if they're truly representative.

Even then, the chances of getting a concise estimate is still very low.

Evolution, as an American, in my opinion, is viewed as still a theory in many respects.

Of course, despite being considered a theory, it has many credible arguments based off of scientific observation and research.

Darwin's speculation on the Galapagos Islands and how the life varied as a result of acclimating to environment - for example.

[Angel1510]

The thing about Americans is that we're all so very divided on many issues, including religion.

I would say that there are a large number of fundamentalists, atheists, agnostics, and protestants.

Like questionmark said, polls are only effective if they're truly representative.

Even then, the chances of getting a concise estimate is still very low.

Evolution, as an American, in my opinion, is viewed as still a theory in many respects.

Of course, despite being considered a theory, it has many credible arguments based off of scientific observation and research.

Darwin's speculation on the Galapagos Islands and how the life varied as a result of acclimating to environment - for example.

I agree with your comments to a point. As far as I am concerned Evolution is not a theory...it is a scientific fact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

[Drayno]

I agree with your comments to a point. As far as I am concerned Evolution is not a theory...it is a scientific fact http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

I only say that it's theory because there will always be more discoveries that have to do with it over time.

There will be additional information uncovered dealing with Biology and Evolution over the next hundred years.

Gravity, for example, exists - but there are many things we must learn about it over time.

[Jeremiah65]

let me explain something....

I am not a genius...I am not even considered a scholar....I am just a dude that reads alot and wonders even more.

When the mighty-mighty minds can explain what happens at the core of a singularity....then I will listen intently....they cannot. All physics breaks down at the event horizon of the thing they say brought our current reality into existence...so....even in the deepest and most intellectual parts of science...faith still exists....why faith?...because you cannot explain what happened...you say the "big bang" came from a singularity...but your logic totally fails at the event horizon....you sir...are living on faith...just a different kind of faith than the guy worshipping the sun....

I love the condescending attitude of those that are so pro-science...so little faith...yet your very mechanism...the big bang...cannot be rationally explained....I call that a giant fail

I am NOT advocating spooks and shadows....I am making a point....you...and me...know nothing....you dream of one road or another..."Oh it was a super being using mystical powers"....or..."it was the universe farting out a blast of gas".....

The truth is...none of these educated idiots have an answer...they will fight for "what they believe"...but when you take it to their inevitable cause....their logic falls apart like a butter Elvis sculpture in july....they do not "know" crap...they are gusssing....so...your "guess" is just as good as theirs...they cannot prove anything...other than their hatred for the possibility of a magnificent mind behind all of it....how ugly and sad are these pukes?

I am a non voter...i can see the hallmarks that say "intelligent design"...I can also see things that say..."it just popped the cork and let it run"....I don't have a huge problem with an intelligent mind running an experiment....perhaps one that is running it's course and needs to be shut down soon....

Edited September 16, 2013 by Jeremiah65

[EtherialNight]

I once had a short conversation with a boss that I worked for who was a christian, he was complaining about "how they can still teach evolution in schools". I said "so you believe there was Adam and Eve first, so how do you explain Neanderthals"? He said "there was witchcraft around and some humans DEVOLVED" I thought to myself, "just let that go and get back to work"...

[EtherialNight]

Religion and science is a complicated issue and I'm not sure a single poll can get to the heart of it.

I also find that the average person tends to lean toward the scientific, but they also seem to hold onto at least one "anti-science" view. And this is regardless of political ideology (as most of these arguments try to paint it as a fault of the right in the US). Sometimes I think the far left and the far right meet in the anti-science realm.

Case in point - I have fairly far left coworkers who like nothing more than to get their jollies off of those "dumb Republicans and Christians" who don't believe in evolution and climate change. But yet those same people have very anti-science viewpoints of things like vaccinations and GMOs.

Vaccinations and GMO is a totally different thing, this is not a case of a belief system or anti science.

GM food goes against the grain for many people {pun not intended} as it interferes with the natural order of things as it were, and when you look at huge corporates like monsanto who are applying to congress to have patents on all fruits and vegetables {which means you guys in the US will not be allowed to grow your own food in home gardens anymore} it's pretty far reaching into a control system over what people eat. Studies {yes science} have shown cancer growths in mice who have been fed GE corn.

There are also GE viruses that have been made in a lab, and "accidentally" released into the public, as was the case with bird flu in China.

Vaccinations can have very adverse side effects such as life changing permanent changes like autism, so I can see how a parent may be weighing these things up when they are told to vaccinate. The flu shot is a good example, there were strains of it that were causing people to get very sick, another is a cervical vaccination or gardasil vaccination for young women, that have apparently lead to death and also infertility in a few women. How can one vaccinate against cervical cancer anyway?

[Drayno]

let me explain something....

I am not a genius...I am not even considered a scholar....I am just a dude that reads alot and wonders even more.

When the mighty-mighty minds can explain what happens at the core of a singularity....then I will listen intently....they cannot. All physics breaks down at the event horizon of the thing they say brought our current reality into existence...so....even in the deepest and most intellectual parts of science...faith still exists....why faith?...because you cannot explain what happened...you say the "big bang" came from a singularity...but your logic totally fails at the event horizon....you sir...are living on faith...just a different kind of faith than the guy worshipping the sun....

I love the condescending attitude of those that are so pro-science...so little faith...yet your very mechanism...the big bang...cannot be rationally explained....I call that a giant fail

I am NOT advocating spooks and shadows....I am making a point....you...and me...know nothing....you dream of one road or another..."Oh it was a super being using mystical powers"....or..."it was the universe farting out a blast of gas".....

The truth is...none of these educated idiots have an answer...they will fight for "what they believe"...but when you take it to their inevitable cause....their logic falls apart like a butter Elvis sculpture in july....they do not "know" crap...they are gusssing....so...your "guess" is just as good as theirs...they cannot prove anything...other than their hatred for the possibility of a magnificent mind behind all of it....how ugly and sad are these pukes?

I am a non voter...i can see the hallmarks that say "intelligent design"...I can also see things that say..."it just popped the cork and let it run"....I don't have a huge problem with an intelligent mind running an experiment....perhaps one that is running it's course and needs to be shut down soon....

Personally, I fall under the category of someone who will readily admit they don't know too much.

Much of science is speculation.. In fact, almost all of science is speculation as much as it is imagination.

Scientists must go through numerous experiments; most of which will fail, to get a final product.

Science isn't about being right 100% of the time; it's about being wrong 99% of the time - to learn from those mistakes.

Some scientists, the likes of Stephen Hawking or Michio Kaku, I will entertain myself with because they're educated.

They have the mathematics to back up their ideas and speculations - and go to rigorous lengths to get final products.

As for Intelligent Design, I don't have much to say other than I have a personal opinion that isn't too nice.

[stereologist]

I love the condescending attitude of those that are so pro-science...so little faith...yet your very mechanism...the big bang...cannot be rationally explained....I call that a giant fail

That's not a fail. Science is simply being clear about what is known and what is not.

To claim it is a fail is akin to claiming we know nothing because there are things we do not know about. The fact is that in many areas we do know a lot. In other areas we do not.

The truth is...none of these educated idiots have an answer...they will fight for "what they believe"...but when you take it to their inevitable cause....their logic falls apart like a butter Elvis sculpture in july....they do not "know" crap...they are gusssing....so...your "guess" is just as good as theirs...they cannot prove anything...other than their hatred for the possibility of a magnificent mind behind all of it....how ugly and sad are these pukes?

That's a lot of venom you are spouting.

So you are claiming we know nothing because there are things we do not know. That makes no sense. There will always be new things to learn, don't you agree? Does that mean we will never know anything? I don't think so.

The problem with ID, is that it serves no purpose. There is no need to suppose the existence of intelligence. The system works without it. ID supposes an unnecessary addition.

What science attempts to do is allow all of us to duplicate the work of others, thus verifying that statements are correct. The charge of an electron is a common experiment for students to do. There is also the speed of light. There are experiments in chemistry, physics, and biology that are often done by students to repeat previous work - to see for themselves that the work is correct.

[stereologist]

Vaccinations and GMO is a totally different thing, this is not a case of a belief system or anti science.

GM food goes against the grain for many people {pun not intended} as it interferes with the natural order of things as it were, and when you look at huge corporates like monsanto who are applying to congress to have patents on all fruits and vegetables {which means you guys in the US will not be allowed to grow your own food in home gardens anymore} it's pretty far reaching into a control system over what people eat. Studies {yes science} have shown cancer growths in mice who have been fed GE corn.

There are also GE viruses that have been made in a lab, and "accidentally" released into the public, as was the case with bird flu in China.

Vaccinations can have very adverse side effects such as life changing permanent changes like autism, so I can see how a parent may be weighing these things up when they are told to vaccinate. The flu shot is a good example, there were strains of it that were causing people to get very sick, another is a cervical vaccination or gardasil vaccination for young women, that have apparently lead to death and also infertility in a few women. How can one vaccinate against cervical cancer anyway?

Are you sure that was GM corn? I believe you are referring to GM potatoes. The whole GM issue took off because because some less than knowledgeable wackos decided to feed potatoes to rats. The problem was that they fed potato skins to rats. It is well known that rats develop lesions when fed potato skins - GM or not.

I certainly believe that the GMO and vaccine hysteria is due to an anti-science position. The anti-vax squad headed by notable intellectuals such as an exstripper employ demagoguery to endanger people.

Can you provide info on why you think that the bird flu is GE?

Vaccines do not cause autism. The evidence is overwhelming against that claim which began with a quack working for lawyers suing companies. That quack has since lost the license to practice medicine.

You ask how someone can vaccinate against cervical cancer. Easy. You vaccinate against the cause of the cancer - a virus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_cancer

Human papillomavirus (HPV) infection appears to be a necessary factor in the development of almost all cases (90+%) of cervical cancer.^[1][3] HPV vaccines effective against the two strains of this large family of viruses that currently cause approximately 70% of cases of cervical cancer have been licensed in the U.S, Canada, Australia, and the EU.^[4][5] Since the vaccines only cover some of the cancer-causing ("high-risk") types of HPV, women should seek regular Pap smear screening, even after vaccination.^[6]

The sad part is that there will be unnecessary deaths of women due to cervical cancer because of the hysterical and uninformed anti-vax groups.

[Leonardo]

Evolution, as an American, in my opinion, is viewed as still a theory in many respects.

So is gravity, yet you did not dispute that gravity exists.

Without being personal, I would point to your post as an example of the sort of scientific illiteracy that QM's link referred to. I realise this might seem derogatory to yourself, and for that I apologise, but it is the truth, imo.

However, a majority of people in any country for whom the sciences were not their strength at school would probably agree with your "evolution is just a theory" remark, with the intent you placed upon it. The suggestion that America is less well-educated regarding both evolution and what constitutes a Theory in science, than some other 'developed' nations is not a slight on the American people, but the American education system.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Leonardo

[Angel1510]

What science attempts to do is allow all of us to duplicate the work of others, thus verifying that statements are correct. The charge of an electron is a common experiment for students to do. There is also the speed of light. There are experiments in chemistry, physics, and biology that are often done by students to repeat previous work - to see for themselves that the work is correct.

Scientific research has also proved very useful in the invention of vaccinations which have saved millions of lives! Where would we be without them!

[stereologist]

I wanted to comment on the opening post. I live in an area where churches every few years hire someone to come in here and teach creationism to their church members. These instructional sessions are well worth attending simply because you will not believe what is being taught.

For instance, one of the speakers goes on and on about how Huxley sided with evolution and became Darwin's bulldog because he wanted to have a reason to support his lifestyle. He needed a godless position due to the crimes he was committing in the eyes of the lord. At this point I realize the speaker's intent and I ask him to clarify who he means by Huxley. The speaker continues his rant about the abominations of Aldous Huxley. So I have to stand up again and interrupt the speaker that the Huxley who was known as Darwin's bulldog was Thomas, not Aldous. The speaker continued his rant. I knew right there and then that the speaker, who seemed rather intelligent, was an unrepentant liar. He didn't want to be truthful. He was knowingly spreading lies and that served his purpose.

[Kaa-Tzik]

I wanted to comment on the opening post. I live in an area where churches every few years hire someone to come in here and teach creationism to their church members. These instructional sessions are well worth attending simply because you will not believe what is being taught.

For instance, one of the speakers goes on and on about how Huxley sided with evolution and became Darwin's bulldog because he wanted to have a reason to support his lifestyle. He needed a godless position due to the crimes he was committing in the eyes of the lord. At this point I realize the speaker's intent and I ask him to clarify who he means by Huxley. The speaker continues his rant about the abominations of Aldous Huxley. So I have to stand up again and interrupt the speaker that the Huxley who was known as Darwin's bulldog was Thomas, not Aldous. The speaker continued his rant. I knew right there and then that the speaker, who seemed rather intelligent, was an unrepentant liar. He didn't want to be truthful. He was knowingly spreading lies and that served his purpose.

I would not be surprised if this person, or similar, and several, posted on this site.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Kaa-Tzik

[Angel1510]

I knew right there and then that the speaker, who seemed rather intelligent, was an unrepentant liar. He didn't want to be truthful. He was knowingly spreading lies and that served his purpose.

How unusual, lol? Seriously, lies and deceit have been the backbone of the catholic church for hundreds of years. Martin Luther could take no more when the Vatican advocated selling tickets (or pardons) to get into heaven. It's all about money in the end. Money gives power and over the hundreds of years, the church has managed to amass millions. I'm not just accusing catholics either, all religions in one way or another want power.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Vaccinations can have very adverse side effects such as life changing permanent changes like autism,

No. This is completely false.

[scowl]

No. This is completely false.

Yes, there was a theory linking autism to the mercury used to preserve early vaccines. There are many more cases of autism now even though mercury has not been used to preserve vaccines for decades. There's no link.

In fact levels of mercury, lead and other heavy metals in people's blood are lower than they were fifty years ago which makes you wonder why everyone didn't die back then.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Yes, there was a theory linking autism to the mercury used to preserve early vaccines.

Of course that "theory" was put forth by a man in order to sell his vaccine cause his didn't cause autism....

[stereologist]

I would not be surprised if this person, or similar, and several, posted on this site.

I was the only one in the church that did not have a bible in their hand. Everyone else was trying to keep up with the reading of the passages and the air was full of the sound of flying pages. That is all good with me. I just don't see the need to tell obvious lies.

Religion is an important part of human culture. Religion addresses questions which are outside of science. Religion and science should peacefully coexist.