Saxon African woman.

[Aggie]

Teenagers find human remains of an African woman who died more than a 1000 years ago...but what were they doing in a river in Gloucestershire?

It was a grisly find for anybody to make - a skull and bone discovered by two schoolboys as they played in a dingy in a river.

But the macabre discovery of the human remains has opened up a mystery, as they actually belong to a sub-Saharan African woman - who died more than a 1,000 years ago.

The 13 year-old best friends made the gruesome find - believed to have travelled more than 3,000 miles from Africa - as they played in the River Coln in Fairford, Gloucestershire, in July. Gloucestershire police said they had identified the remains as being from an African woman, possibly from as early as the ninth century.

http://www.dailymail...estershire.html

[Keel M.]

Intriguing find...

[Space Commander Travis]

Slavery?

[Keel M.]

That would be my first guess.

[Aggie]

Intriguing find...

An unexplained mystery perhaps?

lol

Slavery?

Exactly my thought too, but Sub-Saharan Africa is so many miles from the UK and I've never heard of Saxons travelling there.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Aggie

[Keel M.]

Exactly my thought too, but Sub-Saharan Africa is so many miles from the UK and I've never heard of Saxons travelling there.

Perhaps not, but traders would've traveled all over. If one had acquired a slave at some point and then was willing to sell, who knows?

[Space Commander Travis]

Perhaps (hypothesis time) a slave belonging to a trader who visited these shores?

[Space Commander Travis]

Perhaps not, but traders would've traveled all over. If one had acquired a slave at some point and then was willing to sell, who knows?

that's what i said!

[Oniomancer]

Obviously it's Queen Guinevere.

[Setton]

Well the so-called Vikings got as far as America, the Middle East and deep into Russia so I wouldn't think it's that unreasonable that some got to Africa, then brought slaves back to Britain.

[Bavarian Raven]

Well the so-called Vikings got as far as America, the Middle East and deep into Russia so I wouldn't think it's that unreasonable that some got to Africa, then brought slaves back to Britain.

They likely hit north africa, for they raised italy and parts along the way. Not really that much of a surprise...

[Beany]

there were trade routes between Europe & Africa back then. If my memory of history serves me, at that time some of the African and Asian kingdoms were far more sophisticated than Europe, due to the technological advances brought by Arab traders and the Chinese. The woman may have been a slave, but it's just as likely she was the wife of a trader perhaps killed by thieves or died due to the unsanitary conditions that existed in Europe at the time.

[Arbenol]

Maybe the bones were found in Africa at some point in the past, taken to England and subsequently found their way into the river - to be found years later.

Saves rewriting history unnecessarily.

[Space Commander Travis]

Maybe the bones were found in Africa at some point in the past, taken to England and subsequently found their way into the river - to be found years later.

Saves rewriting history unnecessarily.

i don't know, that seems to multiply entities somewhat, thus offending William of Ockham. Who might have done so, and having gone to that trouble, then lost them in the river?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Pirates?

Big Bad Voodoo

[Aggie]

Pirates?

Big Bad Voodoo

Pirates in Saxon times? ...unless you mean Vikings, the original pirates?

[Space Commander Travis]

Pirates in Saxon times? ...unless you mean Vikings, the original pirates?

that's not an unreasonable theory, actually.. the north African states were noted for their fondness for piracy right up to the 19th c, and I'm sure that they'd have indulged in it long before then. Who knows if they might not have made it across the bay of Boscay once in a while. Or perhaps traders and/or pirates (there wasn't much of a difference in those days) from Spain might have found themselves a few nice slaves from time to time.

[Aggie]

that's not an unreasonable theory, actually.. the north African states were noted for their fondness for piracy right up to the 19th c, and I'm sure that they'd have indulged in it long before then. Who knows if they might not have made it across the bay of Boscay once in a while. Or perhaps traders and/or pirates (there wasn't much of a difference in those days) from Spain might have found themselves a few nice slaves from time to time.

Yeah..my mistake..when I read pirates I think of Jack Sparrow or a Viking....I don't really think of North Africa.

[Setton]

Pirates in Saxon times? ...unless you mean Vikings, the original pirates?

that's not an unreasonable theory, actually.. the north African states were noted for their fondness for piracy right up to the 19th c, and I'm sure that they'd have indulged in it long before then. Who knows if they might not have made it across the bay of Boscay once in a while. Or perhaps traders and/or pirates (there wasn't much of a difference in those days) from Spain might have found themselves a few nice slaves from time to time.

The Romans frequently had to deal with pirates around the Mediterranean, including those from Africa so we can be fairly sure that piracy in the area continued into Saxon times and, as you say, beyond that.

[Keel M.]

Maybe the bones were found in Africa at some point in the past, taken to England and subsequently found their way into the river - to be found years later.

Saves rewriting history unnecessarily.

Who is rewriting history?

[Kaa-Tzik]

Read the article and watched the video clip. Seems a hoax. First point is that the "human bone" they conveniently picked out of the river looks like a femur, and not human by it's short length to diameter ratio. Secondly they said they rung the police, who without even visiting the site, said it was about 700 years old. Miraculous!. Then in the article itself a date of AD 896 to 1025 is given. It just is not possible to give any date to something found on a river bed. It is difficult enough to date anything without any context to the find, strata, other items, coins or pottery for instance that can be used for dating purposes. Certainly anybody can have a guess at a time period, but odd to be so precise to put a start date of AD 896, what evidence is there to be so precise? Such precision, when a general time frame should be given, say, AD900 to 1100 give or take a century or two, is one of the signs of a hoax.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Kaa-Tzik

[Setton]

Read the article and watched the video clip. Seems a hoax. First point is that the "human bone" they conveniently picked out of the river looks like a femur, and not human by it's short length to diameter ratio. Secondly they said they rung the police, who without even visiting the site, said it was about 700 years old. Miraculous!. Then in the article itself a date of AD 896 to 1025 is given. It just is not possible to give any date to something found on a river bed. It is difficult enough to date anything without any context to the find, strata, other items, coins or pottery for instance that can be used for dating purposes. Certainly anybody can have a guess at a time period, but odd to be so precise to put a start date of AD 896, what evidence is there to be so precise? Such precision, when a general time frame should be given, say, AD900 to 1100 give or take a century or two, is one of the signs of a hoax.

Radiometric dating? That would give an exact number but with a degree of error. That can result in a range with non-round numbers at the extremes.

[Kaa-Tzik]

Radiometric dating? That would give an exact number but with a degree of error. That can result in a range with non-round numbers at the extremes.

Reading the article and the very, imo, dodgy video, it doesn't look like they have gotten to that stage yet. I can only guess that as far as origin is concerned, this has been done by skull type and shape. Maybe, if this is seen as actually a serious find, they may do further analysis, on the teeth for instance to see where this person was born and raised. It just looks all wrong to me at the moment.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Pirates in Saxon times? ...unless you mean Vikings, the original pirates?

No, I mean african pirates. They often came to today UK. And legend say that they were feared of Irish women.

Big Bad Voodoo

[Aggie]

No, I mean african pirates. They often came to today UK. And legend say that they were feared of Irish women.

Big Bad Voodoo

African pirates scared of Irish women? How comes?