Insights into psychopathy

[Claimer Pi]

I am a diagnosed psychopath. Well, I guess that is a bit of a lie, I am diagnosed ASPD + P which would be the real diagnosis. There is no actual diagnosis of psychopathy, but there are measures such as the psychopathic personality inventory and Hare's psychopathy checklist used to diagnose an individual (normally an individual with ASPD) as a "psychopathic personality". There are a lot of myths about psychopaths, and one of the purposes of this thread is to explain some of them.

What many people don't know, is that psychopathy is a spectrum disorder. You can be "more" psychopathic than someone else, though I suppose there is a definite line between someone who is, and someone who isn't. According to Dr. Reid Meloy, who is a forensic psychologist, former Chief of the mental health division for San Diego county, the spectrum goes like this:

Scoring on the PCL-R according to a psychiatrist (self diagnosis tend to be very skewed)

Mild psychopathic disturbance 10-19

Moderate psychopathic disturbance 20-29

Severe psychopathic disturbance 30-40

According to my psychiatrist I am in the moderate category. So, I am no Richard Kuklinski, who I think epitomizes the term psychopath. I do think I can give a unique perspective to anyone interested in this disorder though.

For those of you who don't know what this entails, the general traits are a lack of remorse, and a diminished capacity for empathy. There are other common traits, but I personally think they all stem from these first two.

So, the point of this thread, is for me to answer any questions you may have about psychopathy. Of course, I can only give my perspective, and it might not exactly line up with the clinical opinion.

I do this for a few reasons.

1.I of course love the attention.

2. These questions would force introspection, which is always a good thing.

3. I have developed a real interest in psychology, and so I enjoy studying other people. By you asking me questions, and getting a dialogue going between us I can see how you would react to any situation we discuss and try to understand why. Everyone who participates in this thread will become a subject of study for me. How would you feel in this situation, or when this happens? Is it possible for me to feel the same way? If not what do I feel instead?

I would ask that anyone who comes here just to bash me, or psychopaths in general to refrain from doing so. Because honestly, I don't care. If you were screwed over by some psycho in the past, that sucks but it wasn't me.

To start off I'll answer some questions that I know are bound to come up. 1. No, I have never killed anyone. 2. Yes, I have emotions, they are just a bit different than a 'normal' persons. 3. No, I'm not evil. I don't worship Satan, I don't dress in all black or anything like that. And really, very few people in real life know that I am what I am. But I feel since we are on the internet, which is basically anonymous, nothing bad can happen because of this.

[+ouija ouija]

I'm interested in this generally but particularly because a friend of mine has a partner who is very obviously somewhere in the middle of the 'psychopath' spectrum, but they both refuse to accept that definition.

Do you manage to maintain close relationships? Perhaps you don't want to?

[Claimer Pi]

I'm interested in this generally but particularly because a friend of mine has a partner who is very obviously somewhere in the middle of the 'psychopath' spectrum, but they both refuse to accept that definition.

Do you manage to maintain close relationships? Perhaps you don't want to?

I do have a few close friends, and they accept me for what I am. They've come to realize what to expect from me. It's not that I don't want to maintain relationships, I'm more apathetic. I'm not going to work very hard to maintain a relationship unless it is a substantial benefit to me. Friendships are viewed (much like most things in my mind) on a cost-benefit scale. Am I benefiting enough from this person, whether through them performing some action for me or teaching me something I find interesting, to warrant me continuing to put effort into keeping them happy with me?

[StarMountainKid]

I'm wondering for what reason did you see a psychiatrist?

[Claimer Pi]

I'm wondering for what reason did you see a psychiatrist?

A sudden death in the immediate family. Everyone was very upset and decided we should all see a therapist. My mother thought I especially needed one, she thought my lack of emotional display at the wake and funeral was some kind of unhealthy repression of my feelings. The psychiatrist soon realized this wasn't the case, and after many sessions concluded that I had ASPD.

[+ouija ouija]

Do you think you showed any symptoms of this as a child? Perhaps your mother always had an idea things were a little different with you?

[Claimer Pi]

Do you think you showed any symptoms of this as a child? Perhaps your mother always had an idea things were a little different with you?

Possible. From what I understand this is a lifelong thing. It doesn't develop as you age, it has something to do with how your brain develops. I know as a child I had trouble understanding common concepts, I got in trouble pretty frequently. Maybe my mother was aware of something being wrong.

When I got into kindergarten the whole "sharing" thing made no sense to me. Why should I give something up that's making me happy? But, you learn that if you don't act normal, if you say you don't understand you are just seen as disruptive. So you learn to fake what the other kids are doing, and you avoid punishment.

I think this is where the manipulative side of many psychopaths begins. Children are very reward oriented, and seeing that we can successfully fake what needs to be done to get what we want, without feeling bad, what child wouldn't take advantage of that?

[White Crane Feather]

Thank you for exposing your self so.

Do you think some of what you said still applies as an adult?

This might be a tough question, but I do appreciate your candidness. if you knew there were no consequences for certain "evil" acts would you have any blocks in performing them if it were in your interests.

[+ouija ouija]

Possible. From what I understand this is a lifelong thing. It doesn't develop as you age, it has something to do with how your brain develops. I know as a child I had trouble understanding common concepts, I got in trouble pretty frequently. Maybe my mother was aware of something being wrong.

When I got into kindergarten the whole "sharing" thing made no sense to me. Why should I give something up that's making me happy? But, you learn that if you don't act normal, if you say you don't understand you are just seen as disruptive. So you learn to fake what the other kids are doing, and you avoid punishment.

I think this is where the manipulative side of many psychopaths begins. Children are very reward oriented, and seeing that we can successfully fake what needs to be done to get what we want, without feeling bad, what child wouldn't take advantage of that?

To be fair, small children do find sharing very difficult. They don't see any point to it. Some, however, will realise that they can spoil another's fun by whining to an adult(parent, teacher), that 'so-and-so won't share with me' ....... making the other child look bad.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

A sudden death in the immediate family. Everyone was very upset and decided we should all see a therapist. My mother thought I especially needed one, she thought my lack of emotional display at the wake and funeral was some kind of unhealthy repression of my feelings. The psychiatrist soon realized this wasn't the case, and after many sessions concluded that I had ASPD.

Iv also never cried at a funeral or shown emotions at a funeral and all that it entails.

What kind of thing do you like to do, for fun?

[Claimer Pi]

Thank you for exposing your self so.

Do you think some of what you said still applies as an adult?

This might be a tough question, but I do appreciate your candidness. if you knew there were no consequences for certain "evil" acts would you have any blocks in performing them if it were in your interests.

Well, like I said earlier, I don't see things as right or wrong, good and evil. Most things are put through a cost-benefit analysis in my head. So, if I thought it could benefit me, I don't see why I wouldn't do it. I'm not above exploiting others for my own gain. I think it would be easier to answer this is a specific example was given.

To be fair, small children do find sharing very difficult. They don't see any point to it. Some, however, will realise that they can spoil another's fun by whining to an adult(parent, teacher), that 'so-and-so won't share with me' ....... making the other child look bad.

True, that was just an example. That is by no means a way to diagnose a child, just me thinking back to possible signs in my childhood.

Iv also never cried at a funeral or shown emotions at a funeral and all that it entails.

What kind of thing do you like to do, for fun?

I'm a martial artist, I play the guitar, fairly typical things.

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

Question: What is your perception of how you think 'normal' people behave and act ? You must have one, a bench mark or something, or you wouldn't know how to describe in what way you feel you are different.

Edited September 19, 2013 by bLu3 de 3n3rgy

[Claimer Pi]

Question: What is your perception of how you think 'normal' people behave and act ? You must have one, a bench mark or something, or you wouldn't know how to describe in what way you feel you are different.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. If you're asking my general opinion of 'normal' people, I would say indifference. I for the most part don't care about them one way or another unless they are directly affecting my life, or I can potentially benefit from interaction with them.

If you're asking what my perception is on how they display emotion, I would say curiosity? For example, in the conversation so far the terms 'right and wrong', and 'good and evil' have come up. And while I have a dictionary definition understanding of them, these words really have no deeper meaning to me like they do (I assume) to you all. This is fascinating to me. I know I can never truly understand what you mean by this, just like a deaf person can never truly understand what "sound" is, but I can observe what effects these emotions and ideas have on your lives.

I'm not sure if I answered your question or not. If I didn't, rephrase it because I obviously misunderstood.

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

I think its interesting that you see the norm categorise things as good or evil or as such to a deeper meaning. In metaphysics, the perception of good and evil is seen as stemming from the ego mind, which is considered the primitive / monkey mind. It's a judgemental mindset that needs to categorise in terms of the belief structures / programming that the person is running via perception filters.

In metaphysics there is the idea that one can surpass this ego mindset and enter a higher state of consciousness and in this mindset there is no longer a world of evil and good / split/ or duality in awareness needing to be expressed by belief systems, but that everything becomes in terms of motive, agenda, and intention. And what you align too.

If asked to use the terms "motive, agenda and intention", in how you go about treating people or interacting with them, as well as life goals, instead of feeling outside of the the concepts of good or evil, does that make a difference to you?

Edited September 20, 2013 by bLu3 de 3n3rgy

[Claimer Pi]

I think its interesting that you see the norm categorise things as good or evil or as such to a deeper meaning. In metaphysics, the perception of good and evil is seen as stemming from the ego mind, which is considered the primitive / monkey mind. It's a judgemental mindset that needs to categorise in terms of the belief structures / programming that the person is running via perception filters.

In metaphysics there is the idea that one can surpass this ego mindset and enter a higher state of consciousness and in this mindset there is no longer a world of evil and good / split/ or duality in awareness needing to be expressed by belief systems, but that everything becomes in terms of motive, agenda, and intention. And what you align too.

If asked to use the terms "motive, agenda and intention", in how you go about treating people or interacting with them, as well as life goals, instead of feeling outside of the the concepts of good or evil, does that make a difference to you?

Definitely. Motive, agenda, and intention are entirely how I base my interactions with people. My motive, my agenda, my intention. I have no need to worry about yours. Psychopaths are by nature very opportunistic and self-serving, if I'm having an extended interaction with you, chances are I have an agenda that I am trying to fulfill, and need you to somehow be a part of it. My motive will be to benefit myself somehow, even if I am interested in you as a person. Your well-being is secondary to me getting what I want.

Now, this leads many people to believe that I would always be out to get someone. This is not true, it is possible for a psychopath to be a caring individual, it would just be for completely different reasons. There are people I care about, people I would prefer nothing bad happen to, people that provide me with some kind of enjoyment or fulfill some need in my life.

[Helleal]

Ahhhh, I am another weirdo on the planet. I have SPD, mild OCD and once I was told possibly borderline Autism. Can be narcissistic too. Did I say missanthrop?

I have no need for human interaction, I do it b/c I have to and learned to cope and pretend and act as I suppose to.

I can easily manipulate people to my benefit, specially at work. And my boss loves me. My boss is bi-polar and not on any meds so we squable a lot. And parranoid too so I learned how to make her happy and how to talk to her.

But she knows about me too so we kind of give each other brake. My co-workers know about me and generally leave me alone. I don't engage in any social stuff, other then on line little, but if I have to, I can be as charming as they want me to and say all kinds of stories to make people happy. But honestly, I'd rather vaporize them.

I hate people, well 99.9 % of them. I despise them !!! And kids. And as I'm getting older , it is getting worse....

Peoples feelings don't mean nothing, I don't care if they suffer.

There is so many humans around anyway and as far as I'm concerned, we need human population control and weed out all the low lifers, criminals and overbreeders.

But I do love animals.I would do anything for animals to help them and protect them.

I am in relationship with someone who is a lot like me so it works. But it is on different emotional level.

I don't have close relatioship with my family either. I have no need for it. I'm fine knowing they are happy. If they need anything, they can ask. My cell is for emergency only, I don't answer and don't retreive messages. Don't watch TV, but use PC and laptop hooked to the big screens so I get my entertainment and info that I need.

But when my son died, it was very difficult. When I'm close to someone and something hapens, I do suffer to the point of depression. Feel the same about loosing animal.

When someone lies to me etc. I hate them forever.

I am happiest at home with our dogs. I have my hobbies.

I can fantasy anytime anywhere just to keep me from going nuts when among humans.

I must admit, if I knew I could get away with hurting someone, I would do it b/c people agravate me so much.

I tried to get help but I do not want to be on drugs.

I just worry when I get much older, I might loose control.

I knew as a little child that I was different. Luck of emotions, didn't like to be huged or kissed, didn't like to be among others. Even my parents were gross to me.I still don't hug people.

I did extremly well in math, physics, algebra and science. Unfortunatelly coming to USA, I never went back to school for what I really wanted to study. I am very good in arts and crafts too and make money with it.

I learned to be great pretender in life and sometimes I think I should win an Oscar for it.

Maybe I could/should be labeled Psychopath too.

[Mike G]

I'm interested in this generally but particularly because a friend of mine has a partner who is very obviously somewhere in the middle of the 'psychopath' spectrum, but they both refuse to accept that definition.

Why should they accept a diagnosis from you? Are you a clinical professional?

[Helleal]

Why should they accept a diagnosis from you? Are you a clinical professional?

I agree with this one. That's like my boss says there is nothing wrong with her. She is diagnosed by doctor but refuses drugs.I know her and the family for over 20 years. It was actually her that got me thinking and I went to doctor. I am a lot like her.

People themselves need to realize that perhaps there is a problem but if they don't see anything wrong with them and they don't harm anybody,let them be.

It took me years before I got diagnosis. I knew I was "odd",say the least and accept that I have "mental condition" was hard.

But it made sence and finally explained all those years of weirdness. I actually like myself now and I am happy to be me compare to those other humans that aggravate me.

Let your friends be.

[prscustom2]

ok, so you say enjoy study people, but have low capacity for emphaty. lets talk then, my english is not perfect but ill tell you what i think. (no bashing).

i think your psychologist sucks. if you feel like this, or want attention, there are many reasons for this kind behaviour caused my underlying problems, which effected or still effecting your way of thinking. you need to accept that you are normal like everybody else from inside, not special. maybe deep inside you desire to be special. but the key is to find the balance. everything is possible for like everybody else, i dont think you are a "psychopath"

[simplybill]

I've read the books by Stanton Samenow and others. They agree that sociopathic tendencies begin at an early age.

My question is: have you yourself actively pursued a sociopathic personality, or do you simply regard it as an immutable characteristic?

For example, you mention your ability to manipulate others to your advantage. Did this come through practice, or is it a "talent" that goes with the package?

[simplybill]

Looking back through the posts, I see it was Helleal, not Claimer Pi, that mentioned an ability to manipulate people.

So, Helleal - have you developed that ability through trial and error, or is it a "symptom" of SPD?

[Mikko-kun]

Helleal, you dont sound like a psychopath to me. Selfishness and even opportunism doesn't equal psychopathy as far as I know, it's the disregard and ruthlessness, remorselessness. You can also be able to manipulate people and not be a psychopath. It's how much you lack things like mercy, empathy, putting yourself on the shoes of another, that make you more of a psychopath if you're one. Beat a poor kid and take their lunch money, laugh and walk away all happy. Keep bullying someone till they feel like making a suisice, and you see how they feel but still keep at it and all you can feel is happiness or satisfaction about what you're doing. That kinda things are what I think would make you a psychopath.

It's different to be able to do something, to have a talent for something, than to use it maliciously. A lot of people would have a talent for making a lot of heinous crimes for petty reasons, but they dont use it, a lot dont want to use it unless they're forced to. I just say all this because I've read a bit about what people who are supposed to be "experts" on psychopaths on other forums, say about what are the indications of a psychopath, and I can't agree with many of them. A psychopath who is talented in mental manipulation is of course more dangerous and devious, but I seriously doubt that'll be the only kinda psychopath.

Also, as an astrologer, I've seen a few topics, and people say it's the Leo and Scorpio signs that most resemble the descriptions of psychopaths, but people who are heavily influenced by those signs are still just as capable of taking others into account, often more so than others. I'm one of them. It's no sign which makes a psychopath, no place in zodiac, if you ask me. If I had to guess what'd be the most likely thing in astrology to make people more psychopathic, I'd say Moon's south node that's being influenced by something potentially very severe. The individual can see through the mental effort/bother to live out the aspect more brightly, non-psychopathically, but if they choose to give in it may have destructive effects. My hypothesis is that this severe aspect = characteristic in them hasn't grown into adulthood (due to childhood crisis perhaps like with Kuklinski), and thus they keep dragging on the same problems. And need to keep doing harm to others in order to alleviate their heavy burden they just can't unlift from their shoulders. Seems like this was Kuklinski's problem, and his south node ( = stuff we do a lot) was near his Pluto ( = potentially violent, problematic planet) and Moon ( = basic behavior, habits). Murdering and violence was more of a habit to him.

And astrology only governs has influence on us partly, not wholly. Things like brain chemistry, how you handle your life, how people in your life influence you and so on, have a good impact too. Things that influence us are one, and what we decide another. There's always a choise.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Mikko-kun

[LostSouls7]

very interesting... and here I always thought psychopaths..

were people who killed people with knives in the shower...

I mean the movie Psycho taught me that.

What a relief to know that is not always the case !

[White Crane Feather]

very interesting... and here I always thought psychopaths..

were people who killed people with knives in the shower...

I mean the movie Psycho taught me that.

What a relief to know that is not always the case !

It's estimated that 2-5 % of the population are verying degrees of the diagnosis. I'm not sure how I feel about that, it seems like a harsh label, but it is actually a neurological phenomenon not a personality one. A person with the true problem actually has less or nill areas of the brain relating to empathy and compassion that light up under scans. In fact some of them, when shown images of people that normally illicit compassion responses, the area of the brain associated with opportunity lights up. it does begin as a child and has nothing to do with upbringing. However, if you take Somone of this nature and then abuse them as a child, then yes.,, this is the typical profile of the stereotypical psychopath capable of severely heinous acts. Most, however, learn that it is in their best interests to fit with the rules of society. Ones that don't.... Well end up in prison ones that get very good at it..... Well end up in politics.... ( just kidding... Well not really I kinda meant it )

Edited September 30, 2013 by White Crane Feather

[StarMountainKid]

I've always felt somewhat sociopathic in my life. I think it may be because in my early childhood I felt isolated from my family and other children. In one way I have normal sympathy for others, but in another way I feel separate from them and can observe others behavior almost clinically.

I have manipulated other people, but only to compensate for my inability to socialize normally with them. I don't consider myself a psychopath as I've loved and have accepted love. Maybe it's just that I can control my emotions more than other people can.

I remember once defining friendship as, what can you do for me, and love as, how good can you make me feel. This may sound harsh, but I think we all have this philosophy to some extent.

I do genuinely love people and care about them, I really do, but at the same time I feel separate and isolated from them. It's hard to explain.