13 people shot in Chicago

[aztek]

That still doesn't discredit the fact that they are a gang and violent.

they are, in jail.

in jail it is different world, everyone sticks to their own race. it is all about race there.

but you don't need to wory about that gang recruting your kids in school, unless they get in jail, actually juvenile halls are biggest recrutment centers for gangs.

Edited September 20, 2013 by aztek

[questionmark]

Yep, that is exactly to what I am referring to as a culture. This culture is giving 'respect' to the very ones in the community that are causing the violence and the mayhem. That culture is growing and becoming more pervasive. IMHO, it has nothing to do with skin color, and everying to do with the situation. However, it's a mistake to overlook the fact that this type culture is fastest growing in urban black populations. The crime statistics alone bear that out.

I think we should strive to reach a point in our society where we can crush this culture of ignorance without mixing that into condeming of a race of people....BUT, currently (again IMHO) one cannot criticize this culture without being marginalized as a racist.

OH...and I'm talking about more than just 'gang' culture. There is a huge culture of compliance, that do or say nothing to stop the gang culture. Maybe it's fear, maybe is a disrespect of the law, but it really exists.

It does not matter what race they are, in poor neighborhoods it is all the same. The wise guy has the money, the wise guy gets admired. Everybody wants to be a wise guy.

\

[Drayno]

they are, in jail.

in jail it is different world, everyone sticks to their own race. it is all about race there.

but you don't need to wory about that gang recruting your kids in school, unless they get in jail, actually juvenile halls are biggest recrutment centers for gangs.

When my older sister was in a juvenile facility she told me about the gangs there.

[rashore]

For those that might be interested in some history of Chicago gangs....

http://www.uic.edu/orgs/kbc/ganghistory/briefhistory.html This is a brief history, and if you click on the link on the bottom, it directs you to a home page of a lot more information.

http://www.gangresearch.net/Archives/hagedorn/articles/genealogy.pdf An interesting 16 page paper on gang research with several pages of reference.

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/497.html Encyclopedia of Chicago entry on gangs.

Gangs have been around for a long time. The main groups may change around along with territory and what the, erm, nefarious markets are. And there might be a gang for every race or ethnic group represented at some time in Chicago gang history. I'm willing to bet other places have a similar story about gangs- by this I mean a long and varied history.

And along with gang history- we have been glamorizing it almost as long as gangs have been around. Sad but true. There's gang movies as far back as the 20-30's, along with books and pulp, radio and TV, music... Just something I noticed poking around on the subject today

[questionmark]

For those that might be interested in some history of Chicago gangs....

http://www.uic.edu/o...iefhistory.html This is a brief history, and if you click on the link on the bottom, it directs you to a home page of a lot more information.

http://www.gangresea...s/genealogy.pdf An interesting 16 page paper on gang research with several pages of reference.

http://www.encyclope.../pages/497.html Encyclopedia of Chicago entry on gangs.

Gangs have been around for a long time. The main groups may change around along with territory and what the, erm, nefarious markets are. And there might be a gang for every race or ethnic group represented at some time in Chicago gang history. I'm willing to bet other places have a similar story about gangs- by this I mean a long and varied history.

And along with gang history- we have been glamorizing it almost as long as gangs have been around. Sad but true. There's gang movies as far back as the 20-30's, along with books and pulp, radio and TV, music... Just something I noticed poking around on the subject today

Naturally, gangs always surge among the disadvantaged, in the 1860s the Chinese and Irish, in the first half of the 1900s the Italians, in the 1950s the Puerto Rican, since the 1970s in disadvantaged groups (at about the same rate as "race" stopped being a disadvantage it became a multiracial affair among the poorest regardless of race) and with womens lib there were even pure female gangs.

Trying to tie gangs down to race is about as dumb as the construction of the tower of Babylon.

[+DieChecker]

Erm....I'm going to have to just put this out there.

I don't think it's a gun control, or political issue at all, what is happening in Chicago.

It's a CULTURAL one.

(don't say that too loud, for fear of being branded)

Agree 100%. It is a poor urban cultural thing mainly. Gangs exist in small towns, certainly, but they don't act in the same same excessively violent ways as inner urban gangs do.

And it is not about poverty directly. Poor rural folks don't form into gangs and commit strings of violent shootings. At least not in modern times.

It is about the Glorification of the rich criminal element in urban centers.

Edited September 22, 2013 by DieChecker

[itsnotoutthere]

How's those strict gun control laws working over there Chicago??

Yeah... that's what I thought.

Yea....remember folks, guns don't kill people...people kill people........er....but mainly people with guns.......er ..mostly......ok, practically all.

[rashore]

Yea....remember folks, guns don't kill people...people kill people........er....but mainly people with guns.......er ..mostly......ok, practically all.

Heh, it's true that guns don't kill people. People kill people. Much like a lot of other stuff people use. Especially true for things mankind has developed specifically to kill. A tool to kill will not kill until it is used. It's kind of part of what folks look for in killing devices. If it could kill whenever/whatever, it's been discarded.

We humans like our stuff to kill on command, and not kill otherwise. If we develop a tool of killing, we want it to work like that.

[Frank Merton]

Yea....remember folks, guns don't kill people...people kill people........er....but mainly people with guns.......er ..mostly......ok, practically all.

Guns make it so much easier to kill people massively and before anyone can react. America is stupid. The deaths caused by guns are a tiny part of all deaths, so it doesn't make much difference to the mass of the population, but to those killed I suspect it makes a big difference.

[Frank Merton]

People have largely stopped going to America but to to other places nowadays. Those who do so often regret it and come back.

[Likely Guy]

This is a human issue, it is everywhere, all over the world. Why would racism rear it's head? There are members of every single race involved in gangs.

Exactly, and sometimes almost every race involved in the same gang.

The most active here in B.C. are the Red Scorpions who "...come from multicultural backgrounds, as the Red Scorpions consider race secondary to loyalty and respect."

As well as the UN (or United Nations) gang, which is self explanitory.

[coolguy]

Where is Obama on this. Chicago is like the wild west

[DecoNoir]

Where is Obama on this. Chicago is like the wild west

Would that be Wild Mid-West?

Good god that was awful.

[+DieChecker]

Exactly, and sometimes almost every race involved in the same gang.

The most active here in B.C. are the Red Scorpions who "...come from multicultural backgrounds, as the Red Scorpions consider race secondary to loyalty and respect."

As well as the UN (or United Nations) gang, which is self explanitory.

The problem is Gangs. Now... What to do about them? Really, what can be done? Outlaw gangs? That's not going to work. Arrest anyone between the age of 13 and 30? That is millions of lawsuits waiting to happen... Tattoos? Bad idea... Speech patterns and appearance? Again civil liberties nightmare.

I think perhaps only jobs and education will get rid of gangs? Or, maybe simply tearing down the urban centers and moving these people to more spread out, newer, government housing. Maybe removing the environment is the cure??

[Ugly1]

3 year old in the park at 10:15 at night. Yeah if your child isn't safe at a park in Chicago at 10:15 at night, they aren't safe anywhere.

[Vincennes]

As I read through these comments I'm thinking, Why are you people so afraid of being called racist? Do you labor under some delusion that these crimes are committed only by Blacks? Please watch the commercials for the "Atlantis" resort. Because it might surprise you that the little white kids are throwing up gang signs.

If you indeed feel that talking about gang activity makes you a racist, I am afraid that you are. You need to wake up, gangs are not just a problem in the Black community!

Edited September 23, 2013 by Duncansmom

[+DieChecker]

If you indeed feel that talking about gang activity makes you a racist, I am afraid that you are. You need to wake up, gangs are not just a problem in the Black community!

True enough. But the problem is of a greater degree in the black community, as statistically they fit the model that promotes joining a gang better then whites, asians or latins.

[Drayno]

I can't imagine America has become a place where babies get shot in the head. Aside all the obvious flaws I would say that the notion that a toddler can be a victim of gang violence is a sign we have truly lost our way as a nation.

The problem with battling gangs is that the people who do are outnumbered. The various teams that are assigned to combat gang violence are dwarfed. Resources exist, but it's like pouring a bucket on a forest fire; it can only do so much.

[Frank Merton]

Chicago represents thirteen more victims of the Second Amendment. No doubt there has been at least that many additional victims in accidents and suicides and murders that would not have happened except for the presence of guns that we didn't hear about because gun deaths are now common enough to not be newsworthy except when they happen on a mass scale.

[Frank Merton]

I can't imagine America has become a place where babies get shot in the head. Aside all the obvious flaws I would say that the notion that a toddler can be a victim of gang violence is a sign we have truly lost our way as a nation.

The problem with battling gangs is that the people who do are outnumbered. The various teams that are assigned to combat gang violence are dwarfed. Resources exist, but it's like pouring a bucket on a forest fire; it can only do so much.

When I was much younger gangs existed in Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh City) and utilized guns quite a bit (although I don't know of anything like Chicago). Now if gangs still exist, in the shadows, they do little. They don't have guns.

[Drayno]

Chicago represents thirteen more victims of the Second Amendment. No doubt there has been at least that many additional victims in accidents and suicides and murders that would not have happened except for the presence of guns that we didn't hear about because gun deaths are now common enough to not be newsworthy except when they happen on a mass scale.

The Second Amendment exists to be exercised by those morally sound. The criteria for that morality is dependent on the circumstances of needing to discharge a firearm. In addition to its inclusion on the Bill of Rights backed by two-thousand years worth of political history (to be utilized by the sovereign public to resist against oppressive government), and for individuals to protect themselves and their families from criminals, the Second Amendment demonstrates the necessity to protect all natural rights - and provides a platform to do so.

For without the Second Amendment the First Amendment is nonexistent. Government secures and protects natural rights - rights that originated before government - thus rights that supersede government authority in respect to the social contracts of the sovereign constituents and their representative government - that in good purpose was designed to fear the armed populace in the event destructive government is to be abolished by the people in hopeless expedition.

The byproduct of gun control is black markets. Gangs utilize the black market option to sell and buy automatic guns banned by the US ATF, to use against and sell to other gangs and organizations of a less-than savory nature.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Hatake Kakashi

[Frank Merton]

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with preserving the First Amendment. Indeed, all the radicals with guns are about the only threat that now exists to the American Republic.

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

Just a general reminder to avoid personal attacks and namecalling, comments should be kept civil and respectful.

[aztek]

Chicago represents thirteen more victims of the Second Amendment.

no, Chicago represents thirteen more victims of crime, committed by ppl that don't care about laws one bit, and never will. has absolutely nothing to do with second amendment, but i'm not surprised you can't see it.

Edited September 23, 2013 by aztek

[+DieChecker]

Chicago represents thirteen more victims of the Second Amendment. No doubt there has been at least that many additional victims in accidents and suicides and murders that would not have happened except for the presence of guns that we didn't hear about because gun deaths are now common enough to not be newsworthy except when they happen on a mass scale.

I disagree. I say the thirteen are the victims of our nation being too Politically Correct. In the name of Tolerance we've allowed subcultures that are malignant to fester in our inner cities. I'm not saying that all crime comes out of the cities, but economically depressed inner city areas tend to have higher crime rates per person and so should be a focus point. If society can somehow fix the malignant subculture then amount of violent crime and shootings would plummet.