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danielost

why do non-believers always

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Frank Merton

Jesus can raise the dead. Thor can't.

I don't know about Thor, but there are at least a dozen Hindu deities that can and a number of past Buddhist monks. Of course I don't credit these claims, but I don't those about Jesus either.
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White Crane Feather

Magical thinking seems to be the default setting for most humans. Maybe that's why some have such a hard time understanding that atheists don't share that.

You do not have to think magically to believe in a god. It's is not illogical nor does it have to be magical. Certainly some mythologies are magical but the core belief is just as rational as any atheists belief ( or the magical non-belief ;) )

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danielost

They credit jesus with raising three. But, according to his words one of them, the little girl, wasn't dead just sleeping. I forget what we call it today, when someone appears dead but isn't.

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Frank Merton

You do not have to think magically to believe in a god. It's is not illogical nor does it have to be magical. Certainly some mythologies are magical but the core belief is just as rational as any atheists belief ( or the magical non-belief ;) )

Things like the Christian idea of Jesus' death on the cross as an offset for our sins is magic (in fact it has an anthropological name: substitution magic). Most religions have such ideas, such as the Taoist idea of burning fake money that magically becomes the real thing for your dead ancestors.
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Almagest

Jesus can raise the dead. Thor can't.

So we're told. Rael said that he met an ET called Yahweh in an extinct volcano. Why is his word less trustworthy than yours?

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ambelamba

I dunno. Due to the recent cinematic events there are millions of women who are eager to meet Thor. And definitely Loki, too. :D

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White Crane Feather

Things like the Christian idea of Jesus' death on the cross as an offset for our sins is magic (in fact it has an anthropological name: substitution magic). Most religions have such ideas, such as the Taoist idea of burning fake money that magically becomes the real thing for your dead ancestors.

Like I said certain mythologies are indeed magical. In some cases that magic turns out to be true.

In the case of the native Americans it was thought that the willow tree helps to drive away evil spirits causing sickness and fever. It turns out the williow

tree contains salicylic acid. Which indeed is a fever reducer. Natures aspirin actually, and actually where asprin was originally derived from.

There are many examples of this. Does that mean that aspirin is 'magical'? No. But I prepose that 'magical' can be synonymous with 'not entirely understood'. Just different levels of understanding. Ultimately we don't even know how or why asprin works. We have a fairly deep understanding of it, but at a certain level our understanding breaks down. it's the difference between a "fool" and a "foolish Jackass" ---- Dan Millman.

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Frank Merton

I dunno. Due to the recent cinematic events there are millions of women who are eager to meet Thor. And definitely Loki, too. :D

And maybe millions of men too.
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Frank Merton

Like I said certain mythologies are indeed magical. In some cases that magic turns out to be true.

In the case of the native Americans it was thought that the willow tree helps to drive away evil spirits causing sickness and fever. It turns out the williow

tree contains salicylic acid. Which indeed is a fever reducer. Natures aspirin actually, and actually where asprin was originally derived from.

There are many examples of this. Does that mean that aspirin is 'magical'? No. But I prepose that 'magical' can be synonymous with 'not entirely understood'. Just different levels of understanding. Ultimately we don't even know how or why asprin works. We have a fairly deep understanding of it, but at a certain level our understanding breaks down. it's the difference between a "fool" and a "foolish Jackass" ---- Dan Millman.

I think a lot of folk medicine is not magical in nature, although it may be interpreted by the folk in what we would call a magical way, but just the application of observation over time. There are a lot of Chinese herbs that are not approved in the West because they are not patentable and so no one spends the money testing them, that have been used for ages and that I use and find helpful.

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White Crane Feather

I think a lot of folk medicine is not magical in nature, although it may be interpreted by the folk in what we would call a magical way, but just the application of observation over time. There are a lot of Chinese herbs that are not approved in the West because they are not patentable and so no one spends the money testing them, that have been used for ages and that I use and find helpful.

Indeed... There are a ton of things that are greatly beneficial to man that are even fought against and downplayed because they cannot be exploited. Got any authentic Dita jao you can send me. ;)

Edited by White Crane Feather

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Frank Merton

I think there is an American product called "prid" or something like that that may still be around (I bought some in the 1960s in Massachusetts) that looked and smelled to me to be the same thing,

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Stubbly_Dooright

I would like to see links, passages from other sites, what have you, that shows Atheists say God does magic tricks. If Non-believers do not believe in God and such, then they believe in facts. I think magic is not part of that. Although, I have come across Atheists telling believers to stop believing in magic, when they put down people's beliefs in God. I think maybe that is what is being read.

Well you confirm to me the nature and depth of indoctrination and its utter unreasonableness and total dependence on emotional thinking. I would be afraid indeed to be on trial by a group of people who think like you.

Whoa there! I think you misunderstood. Or that I didn't fully put into words what I am trying to say. I am utterly confused

by your post. I am having a hard time seeing where you think I am under the influence of unreasonableness and total dependence on emotional thinking from my post. Do you think I'm in an organized religion? I'm not. I grew up secular and came to a New Age form of spiritual thinking, and it's just me, and only me. Maybe it's the way I said about some Atheists talk to Christians in a certain way, and that probably why the OP is thinking Atheists are talking about magic. Where does emotion come into what I said?

And besides, I was pretty much agreeing with everyone else's responses.

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
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White Crane Feather

I think there is an American product called "prid" or something like that that may still be around (I bought some in the 1960s in Massachusetts) that looked and smelled to me to be the same thing,

Hahahaga yes the smell..... My old wing Chun bak Mei si fu ( student of ip man actually), would rub that stuff on us.

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LostSouls7

I went to the store this morning and at the cross walk I saw a Sasquatch. He told me the world is full of lies and non sense. I thanked him for his advice and continued on to the store. It really happened, trust me.

I also saw him the other day when I went to buy booze!

Wonderful time i had talking to the old Sasquatch !

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Arbenol

You do not have to think magically to believe in a god. It's is not illogical nor does it have to be magical. Certainly some mythologies are magical but the core belief is just as rational as any atheists belief ( or the magical non-belief ;) )

Depends on the god.

I was speaking more generally. There has always been the tendency to explain the unexplained as being 'magic'. Earthquakes, lightning, missing socks in your laundry :whistle: .

But a belief in an omniscient being, that created this universe but is not of it, who's existence is eternal, who intervenes and performs miracles: well, I would call that a belief in magic.

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Davros of Skaro

Jesus mentioned that Moses wrote about Him, but in addition to the verse, check these links out:

http://www.arkdiscov...ea_crossing.htm

exwheel.JPGexwheel2.JPG

"...chariot wheels fixed to axels standing at attention on the seabed."

chariotwheel.gif"...photo taken of a gilded chariot wheel that remains on the sea floor. It was found by Ron Wyatt using a molecular frequency generator from his boat above, after he set the equipment to search for gold. The Bible said all the chariots of Egypt and 600 choice chariots, or gold veneered models, were in the army pursuing God's people. It is speculated there were 20,000 chariots destroyed that day."

http://www.jewfaq.org/moshe.htm

"As with the stories of the patriarchs, modern scholars question the historical accuracy of this information; however, scholars also claimed that the Torah could not have been written at that time because alphabetic writing did not exist … and then archaeologists dug up 4000 year old samples of alphabetic writing."

Peace.

Yes...The circular Coral.This clearly shows the lack of critical thinking that adults with the child like neurosis of punishment vs reward of Religious belief have.Ron Wyatt,the guy who found Jesus's blood,and an Angel told him not to share the lab results.

Molecular Frequency Generators are hokum devices sold to uninformed treasure hunters,and is no substitute for Magnetometers,Side Scan Sonar,or a plain old Metal detector.

I was going to get into how the Titanic being a century in age fairs against Chariot wheels multiple centuries underwater,but I found a Christian author that puts Mr. Wyatt in better context.

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1511-ron-wyatt-the-indiana-jones-of-the-sda-church

You believers have to understand that the majority of nonbelievers have what's called Logic.Nonbelievers are not of the thought

of that they want to "Sin" so they refuse to believe.I am not bragging,but I am being serious that when I was a child,and heard the

concept of the Bible it made no sense to me at all.I naturally do onto others as done onto me,because that makes sense,and to take responsibility for one's own actions.Sin is a distorted concept of thought police,and "Throw the first stone" was added centuries later in the NT anyway (It's not in earlier copies).

In recent years I got fed up with believers from the big three,and did my own research,because they acted like something is missing inside their heads.I found out many things,and some that shocked me.

As for Moses there is no evidence for him outside the pages of the OT.The Jews were conquered/enslaved by the Babylonians,and this is where they got some of there scripture from which they rewrote in a monotheistic setting.

Inanna and the Huluppu tree

Enki and the Making of Man

Enki the confuser of languages

Enki and the Deluge

These Sumerian/Babylonian Mythos are the core of the OT,and Enki the deity associated with water is who Moses is based off of.

Just compare the Epigraphy in clay,and stone of Enki compared to Moses (Moses is a Title just like Christ is a Title).

Moses,and Enki let my people flow.

Since the believer will say it's a trick of Satan then there is no hope for them,and PT Barnum was right on the money.

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Frank Merton

Whoa there! I think you misunderstood. Or that I didn't fully put into words what I am trying to say. I am utterly confused

by your post. I am having a hard time seeing where you think I am under the influence of unreasonableness and total dependence on emotional thinking from my post. Do you think I'm in an organized religion? I'm not. I grew up secular and came to a New Age form of spiritual thinking, and it's just me, and only me. Maybe it's the way I said about some Atheists talk to Christians in a certain way, and that probably why the OP is thinking Atheists are talking about magic. Where does emotion come into what I said?

And besides, I was pretty much agreeing with everyone else's responses.

Probably I was talking to the wrong person; I get myself befuddled that way from time to time.
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Paranoid Android

Since the believer will say it's a trick of Satan then there is no hope for them

I read your entire post, had some initial thoughts to share. And then noted your concluding sentence. I went back through all my initial thoughts, which I sometimes jot down when reading a larger post than usual. Nowhere in any of the musings did I have anything even remotely close to "it's a trick of Satan".

But then, I would not have attempted using circular coral or any other pseudo study to discuss the issue, so maybe your "you believers" catchall statement didn't refer to all Christians, but just the more eccentric of us.

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Davros of Skaro

I read your entire post, had some initial thoughts to share. And then noted your concluding sentence. I went back through all my initial thoughts, which I sometimes jot down when reading a larger post than usual. Nowhere in any of the musings did I have anything even remotely close to "it's a trick of Satan".

But then, I would not have attempted using circular coral or any other pseudo study to discuss the issue, so maybe your "you believers" catchall statement didn't refer to all Christians, but just the more eccentric of us.

Did you watch the video?

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Paranoid Android

Did you watch the video?

I'm still without my main computer until I move properly into my new home. I only have a phone, and simply don't have the bandwidth to watch any YouTube clip longer than a minute or two.

Without knowing the specifics of the video I can still safely say that I honestly cannot think of anything in the content that would make me say it's a trick from Satan.

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danielost

It is my understaning that gold does not corrupt. Although I wouldn't use it on ny working parts of a chariot either. Also we are finding other things in the ocean still intact, such as a viking ship.

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

And you have to meet Allah/Krishna/Thor/Zeus/Mazda in person.

Krishna, Thor, Zeus, and Mazda had their chance to save me from the Void. Jesus was the only one who came to my rescue. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, as the saying goes. Actually, I didn't even think about Jesus during that incident. I was waiting for Shiva/Rudra, Poseidon, and Lao Tzu to show up. I was a Kundalini meditation teacher (with a proper spiritual lineage, Swami Rudrananda of NYC) and a wizard, you see. I was definitely not a Christian when that fateful incident happened. Now, I'm 300% Jesus Christ believer. He's always with us, until the end of time.

Peace.

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

Yes...The circular Coral.This clearly shows the lack of critical thinking that adults with the child like neurosis of punishment vs reward of Religious belief have.Ron Wyatt,the guy who found Jesus's blood,and an Angel told him not to share the lab results.

Molecular Frequency Generators are hokum devices sold to uninformed treasure hunters,and is no substitute for Magnetometers,Side Scan Sonar,or a plain old Metal detector.

I was going to get into how the Titanic being a century in age fairs against Chariot wheels multiple centuries underwater,but I found a Christian author that puts Mr. Wyatt in better context.

I'm not here to defend Mr. Wyatt, and I know that he's a controversial figure, but the other sides of the Moses story have to be presented. Like it or not, his MFG machine found those "artifacts," and it's up to the individual to believe or not. I, on the other hand, don't need his proof to believe that Moses' real. I saw Jesus Christ, and He saved me from the Void; therefore, the weight of His word (that Moses wrote about Him) is worth more than gold...and even diamond for that matter. I, however, am not telling people what to choose. Everyone has to find their answers. Seeing Jesus gave me the necessary map to move forward. After all, I'm not in Heaven, yet.

Peace.

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Stubbly_Dooright

Probably I was talking to the wrong person; I get myself befuddled that way from time to time.

Ah, gotcha. Thanks. :yes: :tu:

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Davros of Skaro

I'm still without my main computer until I move properly into my new home. I only have a phone, and simply don't have the bandwidth to watch any YouTube clip longer than a minute or two.

Without knowing the specifics of the video I can still safely say that I honestly cannot think of anything in the content that would make me say it's a trick from Satan.

Then Google each of these Mythos,and tell us what you think.

Inanna and the Huluppu tree

Enki and the Making of Man

Enki the confuser of languages

Enki and the Deluge

Rape of Persephone

Keep in mind that not only does the Bible warns against Satan's deception,but God himself will put a strong delusion to the nonbeliever (There is very good reason in my opinion why it says this).

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