US braces for possible government shutdown

[Jeremiah65]

Here's something I came across, didn't keep the source...sorry.

The average, middle income family of 4 is going to have something like a $500.00 a month insurance bill....that's $6,000.00 a year. the policy they were illustrating had a $7,000.00 deductible plus co-pay. That adds up to around 13,000.00 out of pocket.

The penalty for not having insurance is going to be something like $2,084.00 a year in 2016 or so...that equates to 173.00 a month....which one are you going to go with?

[+DieChecker]

Here's something I came across, didn't keep the source...sorry.

The average, middle income family of 4 is going to have something like a $500.00 a month insurance bill....that's $6,000.00 a year. the policy they were illustrating had a $7,000.00 deductible plus co-pay. That adds up to around 13,000.00 out of pocket.

The penalty for not having insurance is going to be something like $2,084.00 a year in 2016 or so...that equates to 173.00 a month....which one are you going to go with?

Depends. If you have 3000 dollars of expenses in a year, or if you have 500,000 dollars in expenses in a year.

The young and healthy will skip the insurance and take any penalty. The exchange plans (if they are really market controlled) will then increase in cost even more, since everyone who is using them will be using more then they put in. I see lots of difficulties with the exchanges in the next couple years. Either that or this "spending neutral" legislation will become a money sinkhole.

[Frank Merton]

Great point. And its even worse then that. The insurance company wont even pay their share of that bill, till you pay the 5000 deductable. How many people, especialy those in poverty, have that kinda money laying around? That insurance is a complete waste of money, often with no benefit what so ever.

But if you have a million dollars in medical expenses it would be a great help to the medical industry to actually get some of it. This is why the coverage seems so unreasonably priced -- there will be those isolated instances where the bills are horrendous (preemies, severe burns, liver transplants, etc.).

[Tiggs]

Go ahead and fine me. I won't write the check.

Then don't.

As far as I can tell, the only way they can legally get the money from you is to take it off any future tax refund - and that's not entirely set in stone, either.

[Frank Merton]

Then don't.

As far as I can tell, the only way they can legally get the money from you is to take it off any future tax refund - and that's not entirely set in stone, either.

I'm not sure about the States but in most countries if you don't pay a fine they seize your wages or your car or even put a claim on your home. There is also the old, "Thirty dollars or thirty days."

[Tiggs]

I'm not sure about the States but in most countries if you don't pay a fine they seize your wages or your car or even put a claim on your home. There is also the old, "Thirty dollars or thirty days."

That's normally the case.

However, as per the link in my last post:

The law prohibits the IRS from using liens or levies to collect any payment you owe related to the individual responsibility provision, if you, your spouse or a dependent included on your tax return does not have minimum essential coverage. However, if you owe a shared responsibility payment, the IRS may offset that liability against any tax refund you may be due.

Edit: Also - See this.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Tiggs
Added link to Washington Post Article.

[Frank Merton]

So the limit you describe is specific just to this specific fine. I gotta say that's gonna make it pointless except for a few rich people who actually get refunds.

[spartan max2]

Like I said shutting the parks and panda cam down is just a political move

[ninjadude]

The only real pain is that some folks are getting a forced vacation...

no. A vacation is usually paid. Those laid off by the Republican extortion are not getting paid.

[ninjadude]

so they are going to force you to pay hundreds of dollars each month out of your own paycheck ontop of normal taxes

Yes that's pretty much how insurance works. Then when you have some major health issue, you won't go bankrupt.

[ninjadude]

When you don't adjust the cost to the risk, then high risk people are subsidized by low risk people.

do they have insurance in Vietnam? because clearly you're not getting it.

[ninjadude]

Me and my husband are both uninsured,

We do have catastrophic insurance, so if we ever had something major happen, like a heart attack, etc. we are covered.

You realize these two statements are conflicting, right?

[ninjadude]

But we already pay for the uninsured through our taxes.

how exactly?

[Michelle]

how exactly?

Have you ever heard of subsidies?

[Frank Merton]

do they have insurance in Vietnam? because clearly you're not getting it.

I would say as a foreigner that I am "getting it" better than you are; you are way to ideological and partisan and seemingly unable to see both sides.

[Frank Merton]

We have life insurance and car and home insurance and a variety of others, and we have health insurance, although people rarely buy it since health care here is so cheap. (There are scads of subsidies spread throughout the system).

[ninjadude]

Have you ever heard of subsidies?

there were subsidies from the government to private insurance companies BEFORE the ACA was enacted?

[ninjadude]

you are way to ideological and partisan and seemingly unable to see both sides.

Oh I see their side and exactly how insane it is.

>>>>

I want to burn the house down.

NO.

Ok let me burn just the second floor.

NO.

Ok let me burn down the garage.

NO.

what do I get out of this? what can I burn down?

Nothing.

[preacherman76]

You responce that people are "insane" cause they dont hold the same political beliefs as you tells me you really are not thinking for yourself at all. You are letting CNN think for you. What you and I believe politicaly couldnt be further apart. Yet I wouldnt go so far as to call you insane. Misinformed, brainwashed, ect ect, sure. But insane is definitly going way overboard. Supporting extreme islam say in Iran, is insane. Wanting to strictly obey the constitution, the highest law in the land, that both dem and rep swear to support and defend, isnt insane at all.

At least you dont pull the race card as much as they do.

[F3SS]

^ Alright Nancy Reid. Goodness, it's as if you get paid for this.

Then don't.

As far as I can tell, the only way they can legally get the money from you is to take it off any future tax refund - and that's not entirely set in stone, either.

Way ahead of you. I had a thread about that very part of the law.

So the limit you describe is specific just to this specific fine. I gotta say that's gonna make it pointless except for a few rich people who actually get refunds.

The catch is that if you are an uninsured employee who receives a W-2 they'll take the fines right out of your tax return. Your second sentence is correct except that it doesn't apply to only a few rich guys. It'll apply to any business owner/self employed person who pays quarterly taxes, and doesn't get a tax return, like me. They can't make me write a check or seize my property or arrest me for it. But if the day comes that I don't run the business and get a 'regular' job or if I incorporate and become an employee of my own business the accumulated fines will be taken out of any future returns I might be getting. Right now I don't get returns. Only a credit towards next year if I pay too much, and that never seems to happen. I'm not naive enough to think that the IRS isn't dastardly enough to find other ways to screw with non-compliers.

My non-compliance is only for a short time anyways. I'm getting married next year and will join hers. If.... if it's an acceptable Obama approved plan and if she's even still covered but I'm sure she will be. I'm afraid she's going to be working solely to pay for our insurance though. And for those who think I speak for myself as an immortal, I don't. I want health insurance but I'll be damned if I'm forced to buy it. Screw that. The government isn't my boss.

[F3SS]

At least you dont pull the race card as much as they do.

Ha! You just haven't paid enough attention to him. Racist, nazi, greedy and all the other handbook keywords are a regular part of his arsenal.

[Frank Merton]

I'm a little confused; if the penalty can only be taken out of tax refunds, then only those who overpay on their withholding would ever be ticked. It would be easy enough to avoid overpaying.

[F3SS]

I'm a little confused; if the penalty can only be taken out of tax refunds, then only those who overpay on their withholding would ever be ticked. It would be easy enough to avoid overpaying.

Exactly. I forgot to mention but I did have all that covered in some lengthy posts past.

[Michelle]

there were subsidies from the government to private insurance companies BEFORE the ACA was enacted?

I made no mention of insurance or Obamacare. Subsidies (our taxes) are provided to public hospitals to cover the losses from the poor and uninsured for services rendered.

Geez, I thought everyone knew that.

[CyberKen]

Exactly. I forgot to mention but I did have all that covered in some lengthy posts past.

At first the rumor was that if you don't pay the fine then you go to prison but i think someone removed that consequence.