Yamato Posted October 17, 2013 #651 Share Posted October 17, 2013 And we wonder why the democrats toughened up their position? Jeezus Republicans, get better help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted October 17, 2013 #652 Share Posted October 17, 2013 And we wonder why the democrats toughened up their position? Jeezus Republicans, get better help. I completely agree with you 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted October 17, 2013 #653 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Both partys are screwing America... understand that. A gang of 535, a hamstring Senate and a forked tongued President. ..... all using their position to gratify themselves. Do they truly represent you as an individual or part of a collective? ...and the survey says: Part of a Collective! And that Collective is Russia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted October 17, 2013 #654 Share Posted October 17, 2013 True gerrymandering has been going on forever but if you count total votes cast last election the majority were democratic. And an incredible number of them weren't even eligible to vote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadude Posted October 18, 2013 #655 Share Posted October 18, 2013 They got time to discuss Obamacare funding, the Budget, and the Credit Ceiling with the Democrats.... The ACA funding is described in the law. What's to discuss? The democrats have request some 27 times since april to discuss the budget. The republicans refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted October 18, 2013 #656 Share Posted October 18, 2013 When gerrymandering is in effect even a 55 to 45 popular vote that seems like a win can equal a sweeping loss in Congress. Gerrymandering is only part of the issue. The Constitution guarantees every state at least one seat in Congress. If it were not for this the bigger states would have all the seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjadude Posted October 18, 2013 #657 Share Posted October 18, 2013 The Constitution guarantees every state at least one seat in Congress. If it were not for this the bigger states would have all the seats. I think you're confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyLove Posted October 19, 2013 #658 Share Posted October 19, 2013 The need to increase debt limits is inevitable on account of the fact that the U.S. has a reserve currency economy: http://lexicon.ft.com/term?term=triffin-dilemma and heavily dependent on consumer spending, hence rising total debt since 1981: http://blogs.reuters.com/rolfe-winkler/2009/09/30/krugman-and-the-pied-pipers-of-debt/ Given these, it is inevitable that one Reagan clone after another is voted to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted October 19, 2013 #659 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I think you're confused. No -- I'm not at all confused; I am a foreigner and I know the US Constitution better than you do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted October 19, 2013 #660 Share Posted October 19, 2013 A national debt, especially when of the United States, by far the world's largest and most stable economy, is an excellent idea for the whole world. The debt instruments of the States serve as a basis of near risk free investment, from which other investments are built. All such a debt is is a promise that future generations will pay principle and interest. This is not unfair since future generations will garner most of the benefit of today's borrowing. It is also wise to do so in that it enables growth to happen now rather than later, so that society gets the benefit of compounding that growth. Of course it can be taken too far, but we really don't know what constitutes too much debt. Raw numbers are almost meaningless as price levels tend to adjust things automatically. Consequently perhaps the best clue of excessive borrowing is when price levels begin to rise rapidly. There is no hint of that in today's economies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted October 19, 2013 #661 Share Posted October 19, 2013 A national debt, especially when of the United States, by far the world's largest and most stable economy, is an excellent idea for the whole world. The debt instruments of the States serve as a basis of near risk free investment, from which other investments are built. All such a debt is is a promise that future generations will pay principle and interest. This is not unfair since future generations will garner most of the benefit of today's borrowing. It is also wise to do so in that it enables growth to happen now rather than later, so that society gets the benefit of compounding that growth. Of course it can be taken too far, but we really don't know what constitutes too much debt. Raw numbers are almost meaningless as price levels tend to adjust things automatically. Consequently perhaps the best clue of excessive borrowing is when price levels begin to rise rapidly. There is no hint of that in today's economies. Prices have been rising rapidly and you're not awake to it at all, probably because you don't live here. Therefore, listen to people who do. Housing prices shooting up 19% in one year in California was billed as a "recovery". What are you talking about prices aren't rising rapidly? Look at the stock market; that's where all the prices are. It's up over 100% since 2009, and you don't think a doubling time of less than four years is extreme? How will young people benefit from inflation of the money supply and inflation of prices? Or if you'd prefer, how are people who don't have anything going to be able to afford anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted October 19, 2013 #662 Share Posted October 19, 2013 You are engaging in cherry picking in the prices you choose to notice and ignoring overall prices. That may persuade the ignorant but no one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted October 19, 2013 #663 Share Posted October 19, 2013 You are engaging in cherry picking in the prices you choose to notice and ignoring overall prices. That may persuade the ignorant but no one else. Seriously? Do you pay my bills? You can pay my daughter's tuitions when it's time and I'll just act coolio with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted October 19, 2013 #664 Share Posted October 19, 2013 You and I both know what the inflation statistics for the States show, so your personal "testimony" is worthless in light of these hard numbers. If you want personal statistics, I was just in the States, and saw no particular change in cab fares, hotel room rates, restaurant bills, groceries, aspirin, clothes, and so on and on. If you want to have a constructive conversation, then that is fine, but be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted October 19, 2013 #665 Share Posted October 19, 2013 You and I both know what the inflation statistics for the States show, so your personal "testimony" is worthless in light of these hard numbers. If you want personal statistics, I was just in the States, and saw no particular change in cab fares, hotel room rates, restaurant bills, groceries, aspirin, clothes, and so on and on. If you want to have a constructive conversation, then that is fine, but be honest. You don't live here, you don't pay bills here, you're too ignorant not to listen to me. I'm not lying to you. You're exceedingly ignorant about prices in the US however. People's lives are being financially destroyed by health care costs alone in this country. Splash some water on your face bro! If I wanted to cherry pick, that would be the only example I would need to make my point. What is so glamorous to you about government price controls and injecting permanent inflation into a society where so many are on fixed incomes? I don't think you're in this much blind denial, so maybe it's just a lack of compassion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted October 19, 2013 #666 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I can read the papers; I know the price indexes. You insult me and I want nothing more to do with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted October 19, 2013 #667 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I can read the papers; I know the price indexes. You insult me and I want nothing more to do with you. By calling you bro? Oh, you mean ignorant. Well you insulted me by suggesting I wasn't being honest. What in the world do you think I'm lying about? You're not paying my power bill, or my daughter's tuition, or my property taxes that went up 100% in one year. And you're not going to care about my personal finances are you? I'm fine, but other people I know are getting hurt badly and losing their homes because they can't afford the upkeep even if they can pay the mortgage. I've lost almost half of my street because of artificially inflated prices causing a housing crash followed by massive increases in prices and taxes (it's called affordability bro). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted October 19, 2013 #668 Share Posted October 19, 2013 By calling you bro? Oh, you mean ignorant. Well you insulted me by suggesting I wasn't being honest. What in the world do you think I'm lying about? You're not paying my power bill, or my daughter's tuition, or my property taxes that went up 100% in one year. And you're not going to care about my personal finances are you? I'm fine, but other people I know are getting hurt badly and losing their homes because they can't afford the upkeep even if they can pay the mortgage. I've lost almost half of my street because of artificially inflated prices causing a housing crash followed by massive increases in prices and taxes (it's called affordability bro). Do you blame Obama for this bro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecowboy342 Posted October 20, 2013 #669 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Which problem are you most concerned about..THAT..is the question. Are you most concerned about 41 million (how did it suddenly go from 30 to 41) Americans who are uninsured...or...are you most concerned about the fact that their treatment is paid for by tax payers and higher premiums by those who do have insurance? See, my problem is with the latter. I don't have insurance. I can't really afford it...I need it...but I can't afford it. But I don't want YOU to pay for it for me. Hell, why don't YOU send me some money and help me out with my mortgage? Why don't YOU send me some money and let me go shopping for food or whatever else I want. Why don't YOU give me some cash to by presents for my family at Christmas. I tell you why...because I don't WANT your money and I don't want to PAY for anyone else's life. That is why we have charities...and if and when I can, I do give to charities. But to walk up to me with a gun to my head and say: Pay for THEIR insurance and buy them some food and give them some cash...actually, screw all that..just give it to ME and I will make sure they get it. That's wrong. That's not freedom. Is it? Law or not...is that the freedom that you fought for as a Marine? Is it? If I don't want to buy insurance then damn it...I won't buy any. THAT is part of freedom of speech and THAT is in the bill of rights. So who do you suppose pays if you being uninsured has to go to the ER for some lifesaving procedure? I don't have insurance either due to pre-existing conditions I am unisurable. The VA takes care of me but many don't have that option. I agree that solving the problem of people not being able to afford insurance by making it illegal to not have insurance is BS. As I said I'm not a big fan of Obamacare but the republican solution of ignoring the problem is worse. I would like to see a single payer socialized system but I can't see that ever happening here. The insurance companies have to much money for lobbiests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted October 20, 2013 #670 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I guess we get to do this all over again in January. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted October 21, 2013 #671 Share Posted October 21, 2013 So who do you suppose pays if you being uninsured has to go to the ER for some lifesaving procedure? I don't have insurance either due to pre-existing conditions I am unisurable. The VA takes care of me but many don't have that option. I agree that solving the problem of people not being able to afford insurance by making it illegal to not have insurance is BS. As I said I'm not a big fan of Obamacare but the republican solution of ignoring the problem is worse. I would like to see a single payer socialized system but I can't see that ever happening here. The insurance companies have to much money for lobbiests I'm glad to see that we actually agree on something. But your last sentence...well...I think you need to rethink that one...and here is why: Because 'the insurance companies' is a bit ambiguous...how about THE Insurance Company...BlueCross/Blue Shield...and when the Government does go to Single Payer...it won't matter much about lobbyists because Blue Cross will already be so tied into the Government they won't have much of a say...and they will become the sole source of a Provider Network for the Government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted October 21, 2013 #672 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Do you blame Obama for this bro? Do I blame Obama for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted October 21, 2013 #673 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I'm glad to see that we actually agree on something. But your last sentence...well...I think you need to rethink that one...and here is why: Because 'the insurance companies' is a bit ambiguous...how about THE Insurance Company...BlueCross/Blue Shield...and when the Government does go to Single Payer...it won't matter much about lobbyists because Blue Cross will already be so tied into the Government they won't have much of a say...and they will become the sole source of a Provider Network for the Government. The "single payer" in the end is the taxpayer, or, if it is done via insurance, the the premium payer. In short, these are all really ways of fooling the public that they are getting something for nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted October 21, 2013 #674 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The "single payer" in the end is the taxpayer, or, if it is done via insurance, the the premium payer. In short, these are all really ways of fooling the public that they are getting something for nothing. Exactly! Anyone notice how the price of groceries and everything else has skyrocketed since the gas prices increased? Some of us knew that the cost of fuel was going to be transfered to the public consumption of goods and services. The markets also are attempting to 'fool' the public that they are getting the same thing for the same old price. Why? Because a can of coffee that used to cost five dollars now costs...five dollars. The only difference is that instead of getting 16 ounces...you get 11.5. The point is...when Single Payer finally achieves victory...the price of everything will go through the freaking roof. Oh, but it's okay if you have to wait in line at Wal-Fart for twelve hours because the once abundant supply of 'cheap crap food' will be diminished...don't worry...your 'cheap crap healthcare' is FREE!!!!! Yea! We are all saved by Single Payer. Frank, we agree on more than we disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted October 21, 2013 #675 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I'm sure I bore the tears out of everyone by comparing all the time the situation in the States with what happens in Vietnam, but I kinda have to because that is all I really can say I fully understand. There is insurance in Vietnam but I know of no one who has it. Health care is pay as you go and you pay in advance. That keeps providers competing with each other and keeps the public aware of real costs. It also means society does not have to bear unpaid medical costs and hypochondriacs either pay or go away. To actually see a doctor you have to first go through a triage nurse (except for appointments made on earlier visits). That is not to say people go without care; there are arrangements for the truly indigent, mostly, interestingly enough, through the religions here. The government heavily subsidies medical education and arranges group competitive buying of medicines and equipment, which keeps them at rock bottom prices. Also you don't see a doctor to get a prescription unless you want to (with some exceptions) -- a pharmacist is enough. The thing that gets me is how cheap health care is here, and just as good in terms of results as in the states. An Australian friend had a serious heart attack here that involved triple by-pass surgery and several weeks in hospital. He is now fine and his home doctors are very pleased. The bill was originally three thousand US dollars but they returned 500 dollars back as unspent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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