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Still Waters

US braces for possible government shutdown

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Likely Guy

I expect they both have game plans.

If I had to guess - I'd say that the Republican plan is to take the govt over the edge into full default, and the Democratic plan is to let them.

...and they both think that they'll be "the party that will pick up the pieces".

I don't think that you're wrong and that horrifies me.

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Yamato

I think Tiggs is right about the democrats actually. But republicans? If that's their game plan, they're not going to be able to stick to the plan.

Oh and in other news, Barack Obama paraded out some human props again this morning in his speech about how if the republicans get their way, the poor sick women standing behind him will die.

Edited by Yamato
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Frank Merton

Okay America, sit down, take a big breath and count to ten. Remember, don't go to bed angry. :)

You are lucky; you have a Parliamentary system. Things come to this pass in Canada there would be new elections immediately, so politicians would not let it come to this pass. People with fixed terms can be more irresponsible, as we see.

One thing that gets me is how people can't seem to see through their particular partisanship that both parties are to blame, and a fairly simple compromise would be so easy. The Democrats insist on a "clean" extension, Republicans insist on a "delay." I think everyone agrees Obamacare is going to have to be looked at over and over as the way it is set up now there are some serious bad incentives, so why can't the Democrats give in? At the same time, it is going to be looked at anyway, so whey can't the Republicans give in?

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acidhead

You are lucky; you have a Parliamentary system. Things come to this pass in Canada there would be new elections immediately, so politicians would not let it come to this pass. People with fixed terms can be more irresponsible, as we see.

One thing that gets me is how people can't seem to see through their particular partisanship that both parties are to blame, and a fairly simple compromise would be so easy. The Democrats insist on a "clean" extension, Republicans insist on a "delay." I think everyone agrees Obamacare is going to have to be looked at over and over as the way it is set up now there are some serious bad incentives, so why can't the Democrats give in? At the same time, it is going to be looked at anyway, so whey can't the Republicans give in?

because its all a show....... the political reality show.

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Raptor Witness

My retired Mother texted me today and said that the Republicans could all "go to hell." She never cusses ... lol

I couldn't believe my eyes. She was mad because they shut down the National Park close to where she lives.

What is the tea party hoping to prove, that only the rich should have healthcare?

I wonder if they've ever considered that a good percentage of the poor might be able to lift themselves out of poverty if they could get decent health care? The same goes for the middle class. How many of those not currently covered, and there are millions, could lift themselves up to the upper middle class or even higher if they could get health coverage?

This appears to me to be a win win for the economy, because it will pour money into productivity at the most basic level.

I've never thought of the Republicans as evil before, but they really are evil, to the core, and I don't think I'll be alone in feeling this way after this behavior of trying to nullify the best thing to happen in the country since the civil rights movement.

I believe that this law will change lives .... many lives, for the better.

It's the first thing I've seen this government do that I can be proud of, in a long time.

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Wickian

Well some sort of intervention is needed. Canada and Britain and maybe Australia and Jamaica are the best choices to do it.

If any countries were to give an official suggestion about what America should do, then you're right. Those all have the most in common with us.

The main problem with that is I honestly can't think of a single thing(besides acts of violence) more insulting/angering to the average American than another country even suggesting what they think we should do about our problems in an official speech of some kind. Our culture makes us extremely hostile to such acts for some reason.

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Frank Merton

If any countries were to give an official suggestion about what America should do, then you're right. Those all have the most in common with us.

The main problem with that is I honestly can't think of a single thing(besides acts of violence) more insulting/angering to the average American than another country even suggesting what they think we should do about our problems in an official speech of some kind. Our culture makes us extremely hostile to such acts for some reason.

Well I had in mind sending in troops to straighten the place out; I included Jamaica to perhaps suggest that I was being ridiculous.

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Dredimus

My retired Mother texted me today and said that the Republicans could all "go to hell." She never cusses ... lol

I couldn't believe my eyes. She was mad because they shut down the National Park close to where she lives.

What is the tea party hoping to prove, that only the rich should have healthcare?

I wonder if they've ever considered that a good percentage of the poor might be able to lift themselves out of poverty if they could get decent health care? The same goes for the middle class. How many of those not currently covered, and there are millions, could lift themselves up to the upper middle class or even higher if they could get health coverage?

This appears to me to be a win win for the economy, because it will pour money into productivity at the most basic level.

I've never thought of the Republicans as evil before, but they really are evil, to the core, and I don't think I'll be alone in feeling this way after this behavior of trying to nullify the best thing to happen in the country since the civil rights movement.

I believe that this law will change lives .... many lives, for the better.

It's the first thing I've seen this government do that I can be proud of, in a long time.

What about the good percentage of the middle class that will be driven in to poverty because of the ACA?

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Agent0range

What about the good percentage of the middle class that will be driven in to poverty because of the ACA?

A GREAT percentage of the middle class currently has healthcare and is not affected by the ACA. There are 50 million uninsured Americans, and the majority of them fall into the lower class.

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Dredimus

A GREAT percentage of the middle class currently has healthcare and is not affected by the ACA. There are 50 million uninsured Americans, and the majority of them fall into the lower class.

Tell me that insurance cost arent rising at a faster rate and coverage dropping to stay within the requirements of the ACA... tell me that there arent doctors out there who are now refusing to take insurance because they are losing money like its going out of style... tell me that a typical family of 4 making 50k a year can afford $600 a month in Insurance. Tell me that many employers arent dropping the coverage they provide due to the ACA. You cant tell me any of that, because its simply not true. The ACA is going to affect EVERYONE reguardless of coverage. It eleminates competition from the market for starters and gives the insurance companies a way to price at what ever they want to price at. Whats the point in being cheap and competitive when people are mandated to purchase from you?

Its time for people to stop asking for a hand out and reach for a hand up...

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Agent0range

My insurance has gone up $4 a month starting this month. That is less of an increase than previous years. Doctors are going to stop taking insurance? Well that is interesting considering EVERYONE HAS TO BE INSURED NOW! Employers dropping coverage? That's your problem for working for a dirtbag company using ACA as a scapegoat to save them some money.

Yesterday my mother-in-law was able to purchase insurance for the first time in 2 years. It was now affordable enough for her.

And it's hardly asking for a handout. What I consider a handout? The healthy 24 year old that refuses to pay for insurance and gets into a car accident and goes to the hospital to have his life saved. Forget that person. Leave him out on the sidewalk to rot. Why should $922 of my yearly premiums go to save him? Now THAT'S a handout.

Edited by Agent0range
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Kowalski

My insurance has gone up $4 a month starting this month. That is less of an increase than previous years. Doctors are going to stop taking insurance? Well that is interesting considering EVERYONE HAS TO BE INSURED NOW! Employers dropping coverage? That's your problem for working for a dirtbag company using ACA as a scapegoat to save them some money.

Yesterday my mother-in-law was able to purchase insurance for the first time in 2 years. It was now affordable enough for her.

And it's hardly asking for a handout. What I consider a handout? The healthy 24 year old that refuses to pay for insurance and gets into a car accident and goes to the hospital to have his life saved. Forget that person. Leave him out on the sidewalk to rot. Why should $922 of my yearly premiums go to save him? Now THAT'S a handout.

And she probably has a $5,000 deductible (which means she has to rack up $5,000 on her hospital bill before they pay out) and a $60/$40 co pay. Doesn't sound like such a great deal to me.... Not to mention, a goernment subsidy only goes to pay for 1/4 of the premium, and it isn't applied to the deductible....

As I predicted, the elderly and sick, and the welfare moochers are signing up for it first, but without those healthy, young uninsured the premiums are going to skyrocket.

Not to mention, I have a friend who is a doctor, and he told me that doctors and clinics are not accepting new patients. They are short staffed as it is with full case loads. Many are retiring early, so where are all these new doctors going to come from??

Me and my husband are both uninsured, and we plan to stay that way. We both are able to go to the doctor several times a year and get our medications, and it is quite affordable. We have catastrophic insurance, so I see no reason for use to pay $1,500 a year for healh insurance from Obamacare...Esp. when we are living paycheck to paycheck. Most people I know, just can't afford it. My in laws are in the same boat as well.

I can't afford the insurance or the fine, so maybe me and my family should just go to a FEMA camp....

Edited by Burt Gummer
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Agent0range

And she probably has a $5,000 deductible (which means she has to rack up $5,000 on her hospital bill before they pay out) and a $60/$40 co pay. Doesn't sound like such a great deal to me.... Not to mention, a goernment subsidy only goes to pay for 1/4 of the premium, and it isn't applied to the deductible....

As I predicted, the elderly and sick, and the welfare moochers are signing up for it first, but without those healthy, young uninsured the premiums are going to skyrocket.

Not to mention, I have a friend who is a doctor, and he told me that doctors and clinics are not accepting new patients. They are short staffed as it is with full case loads. Many are retiring early, so where are all these new doctors going to come from??

Me and my husband are both uninsured, and we plan to stay that way. We both are able to go to the doctor several times a year and get our medications, and it is quite affordable. We have catastrophic insurance, so I see no reason for use to pay $1,500 a year for healh insurance from Obamacare...Esp. when we are living paycheck to paycheck. Most people I know, just can't afford it. My in laws are in the same boat as well.

I can't afford the insurance or the fine, so maybe me and my family should just go to a FEMA camp....

Maybe you should. And actually she didn't sign up for ACA. The other insurance providers in our state have lowered their costs, so she was able to afford one of them.

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Kowalski

Maybe you should. And actually she didn't sign up for ACA. The other insurance providers in our state have lowered their costs, so she was able to afford one of them.

I can't afford it.

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questionmark

in related news:

Because the No. 1 priority of House Republicans is to cater to the fantasies of their tea party constituents, the federal government has been shut down. The loony legions that drive Republican primary elections now are driving the United States toward calamity.

Weirdly, the continuing funding resolution that the Republicans have refused to pass is a seriously conservative budget plan far closer to what House Budget Committee Chairman Paul D. Ryan asked for than what President Obama would have liked. But, instead of claiming a victory for fiscal conservatism, the Republicans’ right-wing absolutists have refused to pass the continuing resolution unless it includes provisions to cripple or kill the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare.

Read more

If it was not so weird I'd say that the cartoon included in the article is probably the best representation of the crisis I have seen :innocent:

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DieChecker
I wonder if they've ever considered that a good percentage of the poor might be able to lift themselves out of poverty if they could get decent health care? The same goes for the middle class. How many of those not currently covered, and there are millions, could lift themselves up to the upper middle class or even higher if they could get health coverage?

And she probably has a $5,000 deductible (which means she has to rack up $5,000 on her hospital bill before they pay out) and a $60/$40 co pay. Doesn't sound like such a great deal to me.... Not to mention, a goernment subsidy only goes to pay for 1/4 of the premium, and it isn't applied to the deductible....

Raptor, the truth is what Burt wrote. That the lower end plans which the poor can sign up for, have a 5000 dollar deductable that must be met before the insurance actual kicks in on most things. And the insured has to pay 25-30% of the cost out of pocket anyway. So if someone in poverty buys this insurance... Say for $300 a month (I don't know the exact amount), and that person has $10,000 worth of treatment in a year. So they pay $3600 for the insurance, and $5000 deductable, and 25% of the remaining 5000 ($1250). Or, $9850. Not much savings there.

It is true though that if the person has a Major injury or something, they will be a lot better off, but on a day to day basis, the poor aren't going to find having insurance to be that much better then Not having it. Especially if they were used to going to the ER. The last time I, my wife, or my kids had a major injury was years ago.

Almost every single business... even McDonalds, Taco Bell... most low end jobs even gives better insurance for cheaper then this.

Maybe this is a hint that the millions of poor without insurance need to get a job?

Edited by DieChecker
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Kowalski

Thanks for liking my post! :)

Raptor, the truth is what Burt wrote. That the lower end plans which the poor can sign up for, have a 5000 dollar deductable that must be met before the insurance actual kicks in on most things. And the insured has to pay 25-30% of the cost out of pocket anyway. So if someone in poverty buys this insurance... Say for $300 a month (I don't know the exact amount), and that person has $10,000 worth of treatment in a year. So they pay $3600 for the insurance, and $5000 deductable, and 25% of the remaining 5000 ($1250). Or, $9850. Not much savings there.

It is true though that if the person has a Major injury or something, they will be a lot better off, but on a day to day basis, the poor aren't going to find having insurance to be that much better then Not having it. Especially if they were used to going to the ER. The last time I, my wife, or my kids had a major injury was years ago.

Almost every single business... even McDonalds, Taco Bell... most low end jobs even gives better insurance for cheaper then this.

Maybe this is a hint that the millions of poor without insurance need to get a job?

No, it's not much savings. This is outright robbery by the health insurance companies...

People need to read the fine print on this.....

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ninjadude

Well that's just peachy. And the Republicans want to delay Obamacare. Also just peachy. That is what they want to do, but neither has any idea what to do.

there is a well defined way to do that. And it's not by shutting down the government.

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ninjadude

One thing that gets me is how people can't seem to see through their particular partisanship that both parties are to blame,

No you don't. Do NOT pull this both parties do it, both parties are to blame crap. The REPUBLICANS shut down the government.

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ninjadude

What about the good percentage of the middle class that will be driven in to poverty because of the ACA?

that would be ZERO. you obviously don't understand it.

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ninjadude

Tell me that insurance cost arent rising at a faster rate and coverage dropping to stay within the requirements of the ACA...

actually insurance is rising at a SLOWER rate. Coverage is not dropping.

tell me that there arent doctors out there who are now refusing to take insurance because they are losing money like its going out of style

It's a VERY small number - so small in fact to be ridiculous.

Tell me that many employers arent dropping the coverage they provide due to the ACA.

there are some jerk companies. there always have been. But again, this was blown way out of proportion.

It eleminates competition from the market for starters

it does no such thing. Where do you get this stuff?

and gives the insurance companies a way to price at what ever they want to price at.

gee capitalism much? do you want the government to set prices?

when people are mandated to purchase from you?

The vast majority of Americans already have insurance. why don't you?

Its time for people to stop asking for a hand out and reach for a hand up...

A society has a vested interest in the health of it's citizens. And an ACA policy has a paid premium.

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F3SS

A GREAT percentage of the middle class currently has healthcare and is not affected by the ACA. There are 50 million uninsured Americans, and the majority of them fall into the lower class.

And what about the percentage that will be affected? Why is it ok to screw them? Sounds to me like you're ok with screwing at least some middle class.

My insurance has gone up $4 a month starting this month. That is less of an increase than previous years. Doctors are going to stop taking insurance? Well that is interesting considering EVERYONE HAS TO BE INSURED NOW! Employers dropping coverage? That's your problem for working for a dirtbag company using ACA as a scapegoat to save them some money.

Yesterday my mother-in-law was able to purchase insurance for the first time in 2 years. It was now affordable enough for her.

And it's hardly asking for a handout. What I consider a handout? The healthy 24 year old that refuses to pay for insurance and gets into a car accident and goes to the hospital to have his life saved. Forget that person. Leave him out on the sidewalk to rot. Why should $922 of my yearly premiums go to save him? Now THAT'S a handout.

What about the many stories of price increases far greater? There are more of those.

And they're not all dirtbags. You speak like someone who doesn't run a business. Just a hunch.

No you don't. Do NOT pull this both parties do it, both parties are to blame crap. The REPUBLICANS shut down the government.

Wow. We know how much and why you hate republicans but Why are you so defensive of the d party?

that would be ZERO. you obviously don't understand it.

None? Not one?

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ninjadude

And what about the percentage that will be affected? Why is it ok to screw them? Sounds to me like you're ok with screwing at least some middle class.

They're not getting screwed. They have the opportunity to buy health insurance. I would argue that many of those uninsured are not "middle class" but that's another discussion. And a good percentage will get subsidies to help pay for it. This information has been available for the last three years, discussed here many times with links.

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F3SS

You know, you don't have a very compromising attitude.

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DieChecker

No, it's not much savings. This is outright robbery by the health insurance companies...

People need to read the fine print on this.....

WHAT!!! No, we don't need to READ anything about what Obamacare wants to do, we only have to KNOW that babies will be murdered by the GOP if we don't fund it. (((SARCASM))).

People who vote for Democrats don't actually need to recieve any help, or actual services, they just want the Dem Politicians and Media to promise that they LOVE them and have their best interests at heart. The Poor could "recieve" government help that requires them to actually Spend More on insurance every year and they would keep voting Democrat. We could double those on Welfare and other poverty entitlements and it would be called Progress. How is being in charge of the goverment and getting more poor and more dependant people progress? Partly it is because they've been indoctrinated not to think, but only to KNOW that the Reps are trying to ruin them.

The whole thing with Democrat politics sickens me. Obamacare Liberals are worse then Neo-Con war hawks. They promise and promise and even though all their facts are true, nothing ever improves for their constituents. The Poor remain poor. The ethnically disadvantaged remain disadvantaged. The immigrant still is treated badly. The only people who seem to get better off with Democrat politics are the hippy/artsy middle class and rich, who support the whole Democrat financial structure.

Edited by DieChecker
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