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Still Waters

US braces for possible government shutdown

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DieChecker

You know, you don't have a very compromising attitude.

Just like a modern Democrat. He'd make a fantastic Congressmen. Do whatever Pelosi, or Reid, tell him to do. Thinking is part of working in Washington DC apparently.

Do you remember when the Republicans all were united and voted NO on issues? That was called obstructionist then, and the Dems said it was Childish. Well, who is being the Party of NO now?

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Jeremiah65

warning_zpsce97b5d4.jpg

First off...both parties are responsible for this "shutdown"....being a spoiled child stomping or rolling around on the ground and screaming is NOT negotiating.

But the words "Federal Government shutdown"....I cannot say the phrase and not laugh out loud. The only thing that has ceased to function is the things that matters to the people that fund the GOV...Joe Citizen. The spy programs are still running....the drones are still flying...I'd like to consider this "shutdown" to be a Libertarian win, but it is just another smoke and mirrors show to alarm the low info, sloping forehead voters.

I would love this to be an opportunity for people to see how fat and gluttonous this gov has become and how we actually can function just fine with much less bureaucracy and cost...but unfortunately, most people listen to the MSM and think it's a shame these lazy and overpaid workers are being furloughed...not realizing they will get paid back wages when the GOV starts back up. This is essentially a paid fall vacation that the rest of us would never get.

If this is actually hurting you, then I feel for you...but for the most part, the "pain" the MSM is blabbering on and on about is bullsh!t. Social security checks are going out...food stamps will be sent out. The only real pain is that some folks are getting a forced vacation..."oh the agony"...I'd might be more sympathetic if they were not going to get paid when they eventually go back to work...but they will so...sympathy = very little.

I want people to see that we do not need all of this GOV to function. I'd love to see a huge strip back of so many things and a re-do...lets make things better, not fatter.

As far as Obamacare...I hate being told to buy something...I have made that clear many-many times. What needs to happen is a series of amendments to keep the good and lose the bad....that is what intelligent people would do. It's not going away anytime soon as long as their is a democrat controlled senate and white house.....so might as well change it through the amendment process...that will be better than this hair pulling and jumping around we are observing...

We just need for the herds to learn you can actually get along just fine with less GOV police/nanny state over site...but they refuse to see, they need their nannies and their farmers to protect them from the big bad wolf...

flockofsheep_zpsf1a6a84d.gif

Edited by Jeremiah65
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Frank Merton

It occurs to me that this shutdown might be a good thing: wake up the Americans from their often smug complacency about their political system. Of course I thought the same thing a dozen or so years ago when it looked like they wouldn't be able to decide who had won the election. In that case, though, a partisan Supreme Court resolved it on a party-line vote. Will it do as much here?

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Thanato

I have a question. How come it was healthcare for those who can't afford it the cause that 'shut down' the US government?

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Frank Merton

I can see objecting to being required to spend several hundred dollars a month for something I am excruciatingly unlikely to need if I am young and healthy and have good habits, to provide for the health needs of the older, unhealthy, smokers and drinkers and so on.

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questionmark

I have a question. How come it was healthcare for those who can't afford it the cause that 'shut down' the US government?

Mostly it was not, what shut down the government is that we have two thingies coming up within a short time: the deadline when the debt limit has to be extended or the US defaults on its debt and the budget. As the Reps right now are pretty much in disarray Boehner could not risk a fight over both within the party so he chose the budget. That way the debt limit can be brought forward with a bi-partisan majority leaving the Tea Party out of the equation. They might even combine both problems at the same time. The drawback of that is that it will take another 15 days of shutdown.

What is certain: The defunding of Obamacare is a no go. That thing was beat to death by Cruz in the first skirmish. And the enrollment numbers we have so far makes it dangerous for the Reps to stop it.

Edited by questionmark

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Thanato

so they are going to force you to pay hundreds of dollars each month out of your own paycheck ontop of normal taxes etc to pay for the medical treatment of others? Or is it just going to be part of the normal taxes and be included in the federal budget and could easily be taken out of National Defence, or other over budgeted government departments?

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Agent0range

Huh? It's medical treatment for yourself...

The vast majority of Americans that are already insured aren't paying for this...

Edited by Agent0range

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Thanato

Mostly it was not, what shut down the government is that we have two thingies coming up within a short time: the deadline when the debt limit has to be extended or the US defaults on its debt and the budget. As the Reps right now are pretty much in disarray Boehner could not risk a fight over both within the party so he chose the budget. That way the debt limit can be brought forward with a bi-partisan majority leaving the Tea Party out of the equation. They might even combine both problems at the same time. The drawback of that is that it will take another 15 days of shutdown.

What is certain: The defunding of Obamacare is a no go. That thing was beat to death by Cruz in the first skirmish. And the enrollment numbers we have so far makes it dangerous for the Reps to stop it.

Ok so it was just people playing Political Roulette. You guys really need to reign in your politicians.

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questionmark

so they are going to force you to pay hundreds of dollars each month out of your own paycheck ontop of normal taxes etc to pay for the medical treatment of others? Or is it just going to be part of the normal taxes and be included in the federal budget and could easily be taken out of National Defence, or other over budgeted government departments?

What medical treatment of others? In the first line you are buying insurance for your own medical problems. If you have none, well then it is like with all insurances; cost more than you got. But still better than needing it and not having the money to pay.

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Frank Merton

When you don't adjust the cost to the risk, then high risk people are subsidized by low risk people. It would be kinda like charging the same automobile premium for very safe mature drivers and teenagers with DWIs on their record. This is a social decision but I can see the low risk healthy people not liking it.

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Thanato

Ahh, this is why I like OHIP. I pay for it in my taxes.

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Kowalski

Let me explain something to you guys about the type of health insurance on these exchanges....

And she probably has a $5,000 deductible (which means she has to rack up $5,000 on her hospital bill before they pay out) and a $60/$40 co pay. Doesn't sound like such a great deal to me.... Not to mention, a government subsidy only goes to pay for 1/4 of the premium, and it isn't applied to the deductible....

Raptor, the truth is what Burt wrote. That the lower end plans which the poor can sign up for, have a 5000 dollar deductable that must be met before the insurance actual kicks in on most things. And the insured has to pay 25-30% of the cost out of pocket anyway. So if someone in poverty buys this insurance... Say for $300 a month (I don't know the exact amount), and that person has $10,000 worth of treatment in a year. So they pay $3600 for the insurance, and $5000 deductable, and 25% of the remaining 5000 ($1250). Or, $9850. Not much savings there.

It is true though that if the person has a Major injury or something, they will be a lot better off, but on a day to day basis, the poor aren't going to find having insurance to be that much better then Not having it. Especially if they were used to going to the ER. The last time I, my wife, or my kids had a major injury was years ago.

Almost every single business... even McDonalds, Taco Bell... most low end jobs even gives better insurance for cheaper then this.

Maybe this is a hint that the millions of poor without insurance need to get a job?

Edited by Burt Gummer
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Jeremiah65

"Obamacare" was only part of the reason to faux "shutdown" the Fed Gov....it got tangled up in the budget "talks"....yes they are just talks...we have not had an approved budget in years...they just keep running on the same allocations of funds they have for the last several years...and this apparently seems to be ok with people.

I'm a little miffed at the people that want to pass "resolutions" to keep the fat, revenue eating machine open for business. That is NOT addressing the problems. In my humble opinion...things that need to seriously be looked at

1) Gov subsidies to profitable corporations (huge money)

2) Tax breaks that 100% of the people cannot participate in (loopholes)

3) The budget for domestic spying and surveillance (staggering sums of money)

4) "Discretionary spending"....this is nothing more than a blank check to special interests

5) Impacts of deteriorating infrastructure on commerce and the efficiency that products can be moved to market

6) The obscene amounts of money the MIC collects off of us (taxpayers) in what is essentially a "no competition" market.

I am not opposed to the Fed GOV doing what we created it to do...take care of things that "all of us" need taken care of. Protecting our borders, protecting our property, protecting our civil rights and facilitating business and commerce. Social programs and education should be a state controlled issue...not federal.

Oh well. In my mind, I don't see anyone on "the hill" overly concerned with a true balanced budget. There are too many palms being greased... they want keep these money sinkholes in place.

Just think..."IF" we had a balanced budget and did not spend more than we take in....we might could actually address the national debt so that our children and grandchildren and on down the line are not shackled to a ball and chain....an anchor around their necks.

I have a much longer list, but you get the gist of it.

Libertarianwhatwasthat_zps8606485b.jpg

Edited by Jeremiah65
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Agent0range

Let me explain something to you guys about the type of health insurance on these exchanges....

Burt, I could honestly care less about the types of insurance offered. I personally am sick of paying almost $1,000 a year to cover for the freeloaders. I would be just as fine as hospitals refusing treatment to the uninsured or people not paying at that very moment as I am with forcing people to be insured.

How many of the uninsured have cable tv, cell phones, internet, a netflix account, smoke cigarrettes, drink alcohol and have a safe full of guns like yourself?

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Frank Merton

You don't want to kill the deficit with this sort of unemployment. The Republicans here are too much ideology and not enough pragmatism. Generate a good three to four percent growth and about two percent inflation and the debt will fast come under control. Then would be the time to curb spending and run a surplus, not now.

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Kowalski

I can see objecting to being required to spend several hundred dollars a month for something I am excruciatingly unlikely to need if I am young and healthy and have good habits, to provide for the health needs of the older, unhealthy, smokers and drinkers and so on.

Me and my husband are both uninsured, and still manage to go the doctor several times a year for medications, which are extremely affordable. We actually get a discount on our office visit. There is a clinic where my OB GYN is at, where you can get free yearly mammograms and pap screens. My husband actually had blood work done a few months ago, and we only paid $80. We do have catastrophic insurance, so if we ever had something major happen, like a heart attack, etc. we are covered.

But the health insurance you purchase through the exchanges is a joke, and a huge rip off....

Makes me sick to see these mega corporations stocks rising, making money of the clueless sheeple....

Don't get me wrong, I want people to have good health insurance. I want good health insurance. I get it. But people need to read the fine print on these insurance policies....

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Kowalski

Burt, I could honestly care less about the types of insurance offered. I personally am sick of paying almost $1,000 a year to cover for the freeloaders. I would be just as fine as hospitals refusing treatment to the uninsured or people not paying at that very moment as I am with forcing people to be insured.

How many of the uninsured have cable tv, cell phones, internet, a netflix account, smoke cigarrettes, drink alcohol and have a safe full of guns like yourself?

Honestly, it's not up to you or the government to dictate to me or anyone else, what I have to buy with my hard earned money.

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Frank Merton

It's interesting, just as a point of reference. A year ago I had to have major surgery on my heart and stomach. Five surgeons plus staff for six hours. I paid the rough equivalent of $1,800.

In the aftermath I take exactly a dozen prescription pills, and it all costs me about the equivalent of twenty dollars a month.

No insurance at all (although it is available it strikes me as unnecessary here).

The one thing people complain about is that in Vietnam you have to pay cash in advance. In theory sometimes people go without care, but that does not happen in really serious situations in a society of families and neighborhoods and communities.

This is socialized medicine, and the doctors all have very nice villas.

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Agent0range

Honestly, it's not up to you or the government to dictate to me or anyone else, what I have to buy with my hard earned money.

Oh, but it is up to the people that are uninsured to dictate that I pay their medical bills. Makes sense.

http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/publications/fact-sheets/the-added-cost-of-care-for-the-Uninsured-in-Hawaii.html

And that $922 was in 2005. The cost of unpaid medical bills has risen dramatically to almost $50 billion annually. So I'm sure it is now well over $1000 that I pay.

Edited by Agent0range

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Michelle

Oh, but it is up to the people that are uninsured to dictate that I pay their medical bills. Makes sense.

http://www.familiesu...-in-Hawaii.html

And that $922 was in 2005. The cost of unpaid medical bills has risen dramatically to almost $50 billion annually. So I'm sure it is now well over $1000 that I pay.

But we already pay for the uninsured through our taxes. We also pay whenever we have a medical procedure done. Like stores that raise prices due to shoplifting to cover losses so do hospitals to cover the uninsured.

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preacherman76

DieChecker, on 02 October 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Raptor, the truth is what Burt wrote. That the lower end plans which the poor can sign up for, have a 5000 dollar deductable that must be met before the insurance actual kicks in on most things. And the insured has to pay 25-30% of the cost out of pocket anyway. So if someone in poverty buys this insurance... Say for $300 a month (I don't know the exact amount), and that person has $10,000 worth of treatment in a year. So they pay $3600 for the insurance, and $5000 deductable, and 25% of the remaining 5000 ($1250). Or, $9850. Not much savings there.

Great point. And its even worse then that. The insurance company wont even pay their share of that bill, till you pay the 5000 deductable. How many people, especialy those in poverty, have that kinda money laying around? That insurance is a complete waste of money, often with no benefit what so ever.

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DieChecker

One thing I did hear about was that Obamacare sets new minimums on insurance plans. To allow for Apples to Apples comparisons, but.... Plans that offered less then these new minimums have been Outlawed, so millions of people who had marginal insurance now are being Forced to buy much more expensive insurance. Sure, they get more for their money now, but if they only had $200 in their monthly budget before, and now their minimum plan cost $350, then I guess they'll either have to do without, or cut out eating or something....

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F3SS

How many of the uninsured have cable tv, cell phones, internet, a netflix account, smoke cigarrettes, drink alcohol and have a safe full of guns like yourself?

How many on welfare and mounds of other government assistance programs have and do the same things? I can bet you that most of US who refuse to partake in this socialist experiment aren't using/abusing any of these programs. We're a cheap date in the long run. This is supposed to be America. The land of do whatever the hell you want with your money not the land of do what your neighbor wants you to do with it or the land of do what a politicians demands you do with it yet refuses to do himself. Besides, I'd rather stimulate the economy by spending money on the things you listed rather than stifle the economy by not being able to buy those things because Obama mandated all my money right out of my pocket just to make you feel better. I don't care what you want. It's my money and I'll spend it how I want. I will not comply with this law and there isn't a damn thing you or your elected nanny can do about it. Go ahead and fine me. I won't write the check.

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Kowalski

How many on welfare and mounds of other government assistance programs have and do the same things? I can bet you that most of US who refuse to partake in this socialist experiment aren't using/abusing any of these programs. We're a cheap date in the long run. This is supposed to be America. The land of do whatever the hell you want with your money not the land of do what your neighbor wants you to do with it or the land of do what a politicians demands you do with it yet refuses to do himself. Besides, I'd rather stimulate the economy by spending money on the things you listed rather than stifle the economy by not being able to buy those things because Obama mandated all my money right out of my pocket just to make you feel better. I don't care what you want. It's my money and I'll spend it how I want. I will not comply with this law and there isn't a damn thing you or your elected nanny can do about it. Go ahead and fine me. I won't write the check.

:clap: :clap:

Well said, sir. :tu:

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