My wife just called me

[BiffSplitkins]

My wife called me at work this morning and she is very rattled.

My wife's father passed away from cancer in January of 2012. We had him creamated and brought his ashes home with us in a white box that contained two separate bags of his ashes.

We've always had strange activity in our house like lights going on and off by themselves;but when we brought my father-in-law's ashes home there seemed to be much more activity in the house. We heard some new noises that we've never heard before and we both felt a certain un-easiness when we were each alone in any room the house. This went on all summer long last year.

Fall came and my wife's best friend (who is also our neighbor that lives behind us) offered to store the ashes at her house for a while. My wife took the ashes down to the neighbor's house and they put them in a desk drawer in my neighbor's spare room. The desk once belonged to my wife's grandfather on her father's side. We gave the desk to our neighbor back in 2011.

Things seemed to calm down in our house.

After a week or two my neighbor was talking to my wife on the phone and stated that her husband has been feeling very uneasy around their house lately and has become quite moody. My wife and neighbor decided to dispose of the ashes in a local river since my father-in-law enjoyed boating while he was alive; so they planned the disposal for the next day.

The next day they took my father-in-law's ashes out to lunch at a local diner (he loved diner food) and then drove to the river. They each took a bag; our neighbor said a little prayer and they dumped the ashes into the river.

My wife stuffed the empty bags into her purse and threw them away in our trash can along with the white box that same day when she got home.

This morning at work I talked to my wife on the phone and her voice was shaking and sounded pretty upset. She said "I have to tell you something that you are never going to believe."

I said "Try me."

She said that our neighbor called this morning (they usually talk every morning on the phone) and told her that last night one of the neighborhood kids that hangs out with her daughter commented on the desk that was in her spare room and asked if she had any plans for it. Our neigbor opened one of the drawers, gasped and jumped back.

She called her husband into the room just to confirm that she wasn't crazy.

They couldn't believe what they were looking at and neither can I. My wife's father's ashes were back in the drawer in the white box that had been thrown away. Instead of 2 bags there was now only one bag.

I've known my neighbors for 10+ years and I know this not some evil prank that they would pull on us. They are not like that at all. I even mentioned the possiblity of this being a prank to my wife and she said there is no way this is a prank, the neighbor stated that the ashes even have the little chunks of bones in them.

Has anyone ever heard of creamation ashes re-appearing after they've been disposed of? This is really creepy to me.

Those of you that have known me for a while here on UM know I would not just make something like this up.

[BiffSplitkins]

I talked to the wife after I got home from work today. I posted some misinformation. It turns out that the ashes that our neighbor found were not in the 'white box' as I originally thought.

The decorative 'white plastic' box came inside a cardboard box like something that was shipped from Amazon. The new bag of ashes was inside the cardboard box inside the desk.

I don't even know what to call an experience like this. It's not a poltergeist or a haunting... anyone?

[Avallaine]

If you're truly freaked out, but aren't afraid of possibly freaking yourself out more...have the ashes analyzed by a lab to see if they're human remains (if such a thing is possible--I'm not really well-informed on the chemical composition of ashes).

You could also call the place where he was cremated, to see if there's any chance that, perhaps, he came in three bags (and no one noticed until after they'd let the first two go).

If it's definitely your wife's father's ashes and there's no chance a bag was overlooked, then I'd say he wants to hang around for a bit...though he may have partially approved of the plan, since only one bag returned. Allegedly, loved ones sometimes want to hang around and make sure everyone's okay. Your wife could try talking to him and assuring him she's fine and he doesn't have to worry about her, etc. etc.

I suppose the phenomenon would fall under the category of an "apport," which is "the paranormal transference or appearance of an object."

[BiffSplitkins]

If it's definitely your wife's father's ashes and there's no chance a bag was overlooked, then I'd say he wants to hang around for a bit...though he may have partially approved of the plan, since only one bag returned. Allegedly, loved ones sometimes want to hang around and make sure everyone's okay. Your wife could try talking to him and assuring him she's fine and he doesn't have to worry about her, etc. etc.

I suppose the phenomenon would fall under the category of an "apport," which is "the paranormal transference or appearance of an object."

There is no doubt that there was more than two bags. I opened the original 'white box' myself (it was quite a pain in the arsenal to put it lightly). I think you may be correct with the fact that he just wants to 'hang around a bit'. It turns out that our neighbor talked to him every day when she walked past the room where his 'original ashes' were located. She would say things like "Hi Doug, hope you are having a good morning."... etc.

[SpiritWriter]

Wow! Quite a story. Maybe you guys should keep them.

[SpiritWriter]

This sounds something that would happen in the spirit. Wooo reminds me of halloween. Lol

Not-making fun....

I have to read this again. I missed why you said you dont want to keep it.

[little_dreamer]

Maybe he wants some kind of symbolic burial in the backyard. Make a headstone out of rocks so you can dig him up later if he's not happy there either.

[Simbi Laveau]

I'm getting the feeling these are not your father in laws ashes . Or, something unnatural attached itself to his ashes.

I would enquire at the crematorium.

I mean you on your own. Don't tell your wife.

They would probably deny it, but it's a start.

I would bring the ashes to a church to be blessed, and tossed into a moving body of water again.

This is very creepy, even to me.

It smacks of demonic activity.

(ghead, make fun naysayers, but Ya'll know Biff don't lie. Thus is creepy)

Edited October 2, 2013 by Simbi Laveau

[Simbi Laveau]

If you're truly freaked out, but aren't afraid of possibly freaking yourself out more...have the ashes analyzed by a lab to see if they're human remains (if such a thing is possible--I'm not really well-informed on the chemical composition of ashes).

You could also call the place where he was cremated, to see if there's any chance that, perhaps, he came in three bags (and no one noticed until after they'd let the first two go).

If it's definitely your wife's father's ashes and there's no chance a bag was overlooked, then I'd say he wants to hang around for a bit...though he may have partially approved of the plan, since only one bag returned. Allegedly, loved ones sometimes want to hang around and make sure everyone's okay. Your wife could try talking to him and assuring him she's fine and he doesn't have to worry about her, etc. etc.

I suppose the phenomenon would fall under the category of an "apport," which is "the paranormal transference or appearance of an object."

It's possible, but your dad should not give you an uneasy feeling

Something is off about this.

[little_dreamer]

On a side note, I actually stayed alone at a friend's house for a few days. A relative's cremated remains were in the living room near the TV. I didn't know this at the time I was there, but I didn't feel anything different.

Maybe after the ashes are removed from the home again, get some holy water from a church and bless the house.

[Avallaine]

It's possible, but your dad should not give you an uneasy feeling

Something is off about this.

Of course someone's father shouldn't give them an uneasy feeling. Someone's mother shouldn't make them cower and tremble, yet some people have done just that when encountering their mother's ghost.

The uncanny scares us because we aren't used to it and we don't understand it. If I witnessed something I'd disposed of return, in defiance of everything I think I know about reality, I'd get seriously weirded out...but if it was something connected with someone I loved, I'd assume it meant no harm until it actually did something harmful.

[Simbi Laveau]

Of course someone's father shouldn't give them an uneasy feeling. Someone's mother shouldn't make them cower and tremble, yet some people have done just that when encountering their mother's ghost.

The uncanny scares us because we aren't used to it and we don't understand it. If I witnessed something I'd disposed of return, in defiance of everything I think I know about reality, I'd get seriously weirded out...but if it was something connected with someone I loved, I'd assume it meant no harm until it actually did something harmful.

He's clearly stating people in two different homes had feelings of uneasiness, with no obvious cause.

No one said they were confronted with a ghost.

And uneasy feeling only occurs when something is wrong.

My mom does stuff in here all the time since she died . I've never once felt uneasy.

[Rafterman]

Biff, let me put my skeptic hat on here for a second (do I ever take it off?):

I'm intrigued by this paragraph:

She said that our neighbor called this morning (they usually talk every morning on the phone) and told her that last night one of the neighborhood kids that hangs out with her daughter commented on the desk that was in her spare room and asked if she had any plans for it. Our neigbor opened one of the drawers, gasped and jumped back.

Why did the neighbor open the drawer? Did the neighbor kid ask her to open it? Were they looking at it together?

The reason I ask, is that in my experience, most kids have very little interest in antique furnishings and the whole thing sounds a bit like a set up to an elaborate prank. Daughter and neighbor kid know the story. Daughter knows her mom and dad are getting increasingly freaked out in the house. They also know that the ashes were disposed of. Daughter and kid decide to have a little fun - it is that season you know. They simply get a bag and put some ashes in it, put it back in the Amazon box, and then put it in the desk. Neighbor kid comes in, inquires about desk, and says something like, "how does it look on the inside". OMG! The ashes are back!

We've all done similar kinds of pranks on our friends. You hide something under a blanket for example and you say, "hey, check under that blanket."

Just a thought.

[DeWitz]

Biff, your narrative is fascinating. I'm unclear on a couple of details, which may or may not shed any light on the situation if pursued.

In your original post you said your wife and neighbor "each took a bag," went to the diner, then disposed of the two bags of ashes in the waterway. You said your wife then threw away the two (emptied) bags. So, have you checked your trash/garbage receptacles? Did the white box end up there? Where is the white box now?

If one bag remained, somehow, after the dispersal in the water, could someone have placed it back in the different (non-white plastic) box in the neighbor's drawer, unthinking or inadvertently, not maliciously? Was only one bag disposed of to begin with?

Your account tells of two bags of ashes (in my years of experience, cremains usually come in one large, say, 2-3 qt. plastic bag in a cube-shaped box), disposed of in the water and 2 bags thrown away. Then, discovered again in the desk, a cardboard (not white plastic) box and one apparently new bag. Were the three bags of the same kind?

Experience suggests all logical, earthly and rational explanations should be investigated before moving towards supernatural ones. I'm not a doubter of all things. In fact, I do wonder if an extra-ordinary or supernatural event has befallen you and yours. But I am interested in 1) how the ashes came to be split into two bags to begin with, and 2) the location and type of the discarded bags, and whether they were the same as/similar to the remaining third bag (a commercial-grade bag with a twist tie is far different from a sandwich-sized food-grade bag). And--what happened to the white plastic box and when did that occur?

It doesn't sound as if anything malevolent has occurred. It would take a specialist to help you and your wife (and neighbors) figure out what the message might be in this situation. I wish you well.

[BiffSplitkins]

In your original post you said your wife and neighbor "each took a bag," went to the diner, then disposed of the two bags of ashes in the waterway. You said your wife then threw away the two (emptied) bags. So, have you checked your trash/garbage receptacles? Did the white box end up there? Where is the white box now?

It turns out the white box was thrown in the trash. The cardboard box that the white box came in must have remained in the desk drawer from what I understand.

The two bags were not disposed of in the waterway, only the contents and I guess the word 'disposal' when referring to someones creamains probably isn't too kind either. Sorry for the confusion on that.

The plastic bags were thrown in the trash at home. The spreading of the creamains took place last fall so there is obviously no way to check the receptacles now.

If one bag remained, somehow, after the dispersal in the water, could someone have placed it back in the different (non-white plastic) box in the neighbor's drawer, unthinking or inadvertently, not maliciously? Was only one bag disposed of to begin with?

My wife assures me that both bags were dispersed in the water.

Your account tells of two bags of ashes (in my years of experience, cremains usually come in one large, say, 2-3 qt. plastic bag in a cube-shaped box), disposed of in the water and 2 bags thrown away. Then, discovered again in the desk, a cardboard (not white plastic) box and one apparently new bag. Were the three bags of the same kind?

My father-in-law was not the most honest guy in the world. He had at least two girlfriends that didn't know about each other until after his death. One was in Eastern NY state, the other in Texas. We had his creamains split into two bags because we were originally going to ship one bag to his girlfriend in Texas and the other to his girlfriend in NY. Once they found out about each other, they wanted nothing to with his remains.

I am not sure about the 3 bags being of the same kind. I know my wife described the first 2 bags having twist ties on them when they did the dispirsing of the ashes.

Experience suggests all logical, earthly and rational explanations should be investigated before moving towards supernatural ones. I'm not a doubter of all things. In fact, I do wonder if an extra-ordinary or supernatural event has befallen you and yours. But I am interested in 1) how the ashes came to be split into two bags to begin with, and 2) the location and type of the discarded bags, and whether they were the same as/similar to the remaining third bag (a commercial-grade bag with a twist tie is far different from a sandwich-sized food-grade bag). And--what happened to the white plastic box and when did that occur?

I never thought to take note of what the orignal bags looked like at the time. I would have never thought something like this could even happen and would need investigation prior to it happening.

It doesn't sound as if anything malevolent has occurred. It would take a specialist to help you and your wife (and neighbors) figure out what the message might be in this situation. I wish you well.

Thank you very much.

[BiffSplitkins]

Biff, let me put my skeptic hat on here for a second (do I ever take it off?):

I'm intrigued by this paragraph:

She said that our neighbor called this morning (they usually talk every morning on the phone) and told her that last night one of the neighborhood kids that hangs out with her daughter commented on the desk that was in her spare room and asked if she had any plans for it. Our neigbor opened one of the drawers, gasped and jumped back.

Why did the neighbor open the drawer? Did the neighbor kid ask her to open it? Were they looking at it together?

The reason I ask, is that in my experience, most kids have very little interest in antique furnishings and the whole thing sounds a bit like a set up to an elaborate prank. Daughter and neighbor kid know the story. Daughter knows her mom and dad are getting increasingly freaked out in the house. They also know that the ashes were disposed of. Daughter and kid decide to have a little fun - it is that season you know. They simply get a bag and put some ashes in it, put it back in the Amazon box, and then put it in the desk. Neighbor kid comes in, inquires about desk, and says something like, "how does it look on the inside". OMG! The ashes are back!

We've all done similar kinds of pranks on our friends. You hide something under a blanket for example and you say, "hey, check under that blanket."

Just a thought.

Trust me, that went through my mind as well. I'm still skeptical about the whole thing. According to my neighbor's husband, John (I talked to him on the phone last night), that was something they didn't let the kids even know about at the time to prevent the daughter from freaking out about having someone's creamains in the house.

The boy may have seriously been inquiring about the desk for his own use. His family lives up the street and let's just say they are not well off financially. He may have been looking for a free desk.

John let me know that the symptoms that occured the previous time the ashes were in the house was constant arguing between his wife and his daughter and his feeling 'angry'.

He noticed those same things starting to happen over the last few weeks as well. He sounded very agitated on the phone. The ashes are still there, I haven't gone down to look at them yet. Hopefully I will get a chance to do that tonight.

[BiffSplitkins]

I'm getting the feeling these are not your father in laws ashes . Or, something unnatural attached itself to his ashes.

I would enquire at the crematorium.

I mean you on your own. Don't tell your wife.

They would probably deny it, but it's a start.

I would bring the ashes to a church to be blessed, and tossed into a moving body of water again.

This is very creepy, even to me.

It smacks of demonic activity.

(ghead, make fun naysayers, but Ya'll know Biff don't lie. Thus is creepy)

One of our friends who happens to be very spiritual is going to help out my wife with the next dispersal of the ashes. Something was mentioned of lavender and blah blah blah.

It's possible, but your dad should not give you an uneasy feeling

Something is off about this.

It's my wife's father, they've always had quite a shakey relationship when she was growing up. He moved away to Texas and only showed up on Thanksgiving and Christmas. He always had that 'shady used car salesman' personality to me.

When he was diagnosed with cancer my wife and I asked him to move back to NY and stay with us at our house while going through chemo. He did move up and stay with us for a while but couldn't follow our household rules such as 'no smoking in bed'. I found multiple burn marks on the carpet under his bed.

He also used to use a hair dryer as a space heater and that made me nervous as hell too. He would prop up his hair dryer on his shoes and fall asleep with it on all the time. I told him "Doug, you know we have space heaters here in the house that were made for that?" I even went as far as to put one in his room but he still insisted on using the hairdryer to warm his feet up.

Eventually the bickering became to much and he decided to leave and go back to Texas abandoning all remaining cancer treatements. He was VERY sick at that point and still managed to drive himself back to Texas though. He was one very stubborn man.

About a month later he called from his truck in a parking lot in a Texas diner and said he can't feel his feet anymore and couldn't drive. I asked him to call 911 and he refused. I knew the name of the diner he was at was called Ferrari's Diner so I kept him on the house line and called 911 from my cell phone myself.

I found out at that point that 911 can't do cross state emergencies. They can't actually transfer your 911 call to another state/county 911 line. Keeping Doug on the phone I Googled 'Ferrari's Resaurant' in Texas and I got a phone number. I called the restaurant and spoke with the owner and explained what was going on. Doug was an almost daily visitor to Ferraris and the owner knew exactly who he was. She called 911 and an ambulance came and got Doug.

Doug remained in the hospital for about 2 weeks pleading to come back to NY and stay with us again because he never felt like a part of a 'family' as much as he felt when he was staying with us. He wanted me to fly down and drive him back here in his truck because he hated planes.

We had no way of going to Texas to get him, I didn't have any vacation time left at work. My wife let her driver's license expire a few years back because she never drives anywhere anymore, and we definitely didn't have the funding to make that happen.

Finally one of my wife's cousins told us they can work something out.

Have a lost you yet? This whole backround story is pretty confising isn't it?

My wife's cousin's fiance (Bob) pre-arranged that he would fly down and bring Doug back to NY. Knowing full well that there was no way we could take care of him on our own at this point, we all decided that Francis Housewas our best option. We knew he had less than a month left. When Bob got down there he realized that there was no way Doug could travel by truck all the way from Texas to NY. As much as he hated planes, Doug was forced to fly back to NY and leave his truck in Texas. (I still have no idea what happened to the truck, I think his Texas girlfriend ended up with it.)

Doug was brought back successfully and spent his last days in Francis House. We was very ornery all the way up to the very end.

[Kowalski]

I hate it when in laws don't stay dead.....

[DeWitz]

It's a confounding account. It seems very hard to explain. But the one bag may have been in the desk since last fall, when your wife and neighbor did disperse the ashes from two bags? Observation of the remaining bag occurred just recently? Were there any unexplained incidents/feelings or such in the past year, either at the neighbors' place or yours?

It's a real stretch, but if your dad-in-law was deceptive in his lifetime (2 girlfriends scenario; "used care salesman" aspect), is it possible his 'spirit' wants to remain 'deceptive' beyond death? It's a non-scientific speculation, but some parapsychologists attribute 'poltergeist' activity to the mental/psychic/spiritual activity of distressed adolescents with unresolved emotional/hormonal issues. Perhaps, if a spiritual essence in humans survives death, and it was unsettled at the time of death, it may contribute to unsettling psychic activity around the remains/creamains.

Be safe. Please keep us posted as you are able. Remember the love this man shared with your wife, you, family, etc. There must have been some of that. That's as enduring as anything.

Edited October 2, 2013 by szentgyorgy

[BiffSplitkins]

It's a confounding account. It seems very hard to explain. But the one bag may have been in the desk since last fall, when your wife and neighbor did disperse the ashes from two bags? Observation of the remaining bag occurred just recently? Were there any unexplained incidents/feelings or such in the past year, either at the neighbors' place or yours?

There was never a 3rd (new) bag until recently. I know, I opened the original white box that the ashes first came in and I can confirm that there were originally only 2 bags at the time.

It's a real stretch, but if your dad-in-law was deceptive in his lifetime (2 girlfriends scenario; "used care salesman" aspect), is it possible his 'spirit' wants to remain 'deceptive' beyond death? It's a non-scientific speculation, but some parapsychologists attribute 'poltergeist' activity to the mental/psychic/spiritual activity of distressed adolescents with unresolved emotional/hormonal issues. Perhaps, if a spiritual essence in humans survives death, and it was unsettled at the time of death, it may contribute to unsettling psychic activity around the remains/creamains.

Be safe. Please keep us posted as you are able. Remember the love this man shared with your wife, you, family, etc. There must have been some of that. That's as enduring as anything.

I appreciate your perspective on this. I will be sure to keep you up to date on what is happening.

I hate it when in laws don't stay dead.....

That literally made me LOL here at work.

[Abominable Snowman]

Is there an option to favourite a story? I read this last night, it was a great read-frightening also kinda comforting. Not so much the latter when unable to sleep at 3 o'clock in the morning though!

Edited October 2, 2013 by blackPanther_

[Simbi Laveau]

Yes, I got it was your father in law.

I was referring to your wife and others having a feeling of unrest when the ashes were about.

Hmmmmmm, it sounds like he was a cranky old pain, so maybe the unease is coming from him because he didn't die a happy death.

He may just be really unhappy. Even so, feelings of unease and anger are not normal.

People with the most tumultuous relationships with a parent, won't feel unease if say their spirit is around.

It makes no sense unless something is just not right.

He chose to allow his demise be so unpleasant so...

It's best to assume the spirit needs to be made to move on.

To do this they may need some sort of closure.

I suggest your wife...... talk to him and express everything she maybe never got to say to him.

Tell her to do it aloud when she's alone, and just let it come from the heart.

I dunno about lavender, but burning a white candle and putting white flowers next to them in a nice vase, and saying prayers helps.

If it persists you need a cleansing of the house, and so do your neighbors.

[Crabby Kitten]

Simbi said much of what I was thinking

I also wonder if your wife's dad was unhappy and troubled in life. Maybe his spirit wants some peace and not have his ashes moved around to various people in different places, just be put in the ground. Perhaps your wife could write him a note, in memory of dad... explain she loves him and misses him. Does she miss him btw?

[moonshadow60]

Smudging the house with sage or sweetgrass comes to mind if you really want your relative gone. You could do a web search for the ceremony.

[Sunny Day]

BiffSplitkins, any updates on this?