Talon Posted October 22, 2004 #1 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Some Turkish women 'back beating' More than a third of Turkish women believe they deserve to be beaten if they argue with their husbands or deny them sex, according to a new survey. The poll of 8,075 married women by Ankara's Hacettepe University revealed that 39% thought domestic violence was justified in certain circumstances. In rural areas, 57% said their spouses were right to beat them, the study funded by the EU and Turkey showed. The EU, which Turkey seeks to join, has urged Ankara to improve women's rights. Last month, the Turkish parliament approved legal reforms including heavier punishments for assaults on women, the recognition of rape in marriage and life terms for perpetrators of "honour killings". But Kirsty Hughes, visiting fellow of the European Institute of the London School of Economics, told BBC News Online that "laws don't change attitudes overnight". "Turkey is a conservative, patriarchal society that is changing and needs to change more - which is why so many in Turkey are keen to join the EU," she added. Key problem In the poll, women said domestic violence was justified if they argued with their husband, if they spent too much or neglected the children, the Anatolia news agency reports. Correspondents say Turkish women enjoy greater freedoms than those in many other Muslim nations. For decades, they have had the right to vote, access to education, the right to divorce and the right to abortion. But violence is frequently cited as a key problem by Western non-governmental organisations. A recent report by Amnesty International estimated that at least one third of Turkish women are victims of domestic violence in which they are "hit, raped and, in some cases, killed or forced to commit suicide". Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/worl...ope/3944983.stm And this is the country people want to join the EU, and under multi-culturalism we should learn from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted October 22, 2004 #2 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I've been against Turkey joining the EU anyway and this makes me even more against it. Jeez these poor women what a horrific existence they lead. Turkey needs to get out the middle ages mentality and join the 21st century. This is disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 22, 2004 #3 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Changing the laws is a good begining in fact, this is the most powerful thing to do. These poor women don't know any better it's been their culture for so long. It will take many years for such a big change in culture and for these women to enjoy the rights that we have. It will also take education on domestic violence to open their eyes to the abuse that men have committed (against them). And you have to realize that domestic violence has been going on for centuries, it is woven into the fabric of their civilization. It _unfortunately_ won't just go away. Men have been beating women since time began and women are taught that that is the proper and repectful thing to do. Women and men have to be 'untaught'. That will be a big lesson to learn, especially, since it has been sanctioned by religion and culture all these centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 22, 2004 #4 Share Posted October 22, 2004 In these cultures if a woman complains she is beaten worse and ostracized from the community. Other women won't talk to her even her own mother looks down on her. If she complains, she really gets it, then. You can't imagine the horror and pain these women go through. Here in the states we have just accepted or recognized 'marital' rape....I am surprized that that was on the books. Ah...progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twpdyp Posted October 22, 2004 #5 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I know this is a serious issue and I am not trying to belittle it, but every time I read an article concerning domestic violence I am reminded how my parents showed us, my brother and me, that it is wrong for a man to strike his wife or treat her with disrespect. I smart mouthed my Mom one time and my Dad took me aside and told me that if I ever disrespected his wife again he would deal with me like a man. Notice he said his wife not my Mom, that is a whole other thing in the American male culture. I told that story to make a point, yes passing laws is important and needed, but the key, in my opinion is going to be changing the attitudes in young people, like my father did me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdude22a Posted October 22, 2004 #6 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Stupid stupid women any man who beat a woman is a cowrad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 22, 2004 #7 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Oh, yes, you are so right. In fact, that is where most change occurs_ with the children. The culture is so hard to change, but if you change the laws and start to change the culture you can teach the children how to treat people (women). In the shelter I worked at, the women I worked with, became so despondent at times. It was because it is was such a hard and in many ways losing battle to fight 'domestic violence'. One older gal told me that the secret to bringing about change in 'violence against women' is with the children. Our organization taught the children (that came in with their mothers) how to respect their moms and other females in the family. The children learned from their dad or father figure to hit their moms when they were angry or frustrated and this perpetuates the 'cycle of violence'. The kids grow up to be violent and it starts all over again. It is learned. When I, recently, went into the university ( in my city) to take a few courses, I was so surprized. to see the men treat the women as equals. I thought to myself...YES!...It works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 22, 2004 #8 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Stupid stupid women any man who beat a woman is a cowrad 320230[/snapback] This is so true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twpdyp Posted October 22, 2004 #9 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I am the father of 5 boys, ranging in age from 22 years to 5 months, and I have already told the ones old enough to understand "that if their wife or girl friend ever shows up at my door with a mark on her that matches your fist I will beat you sensless." I am 6'2" 250 lbs. big enough for them to take me seriously...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 22, 2004 #10 Share Posted October 22, 2004 (edited) When I talk about the university, it was such a wonderful surprize because back when I went to college, it was a very different story. Men did not treat women equally and the school didn't treat women with the same respect they did men. In fact, there were much more men in school, back then_ than women. Today, at the same school, it is a totally different experience for us.... and there are more women students, now, than men. What was that saying that comes to mind?..."You've come a long way, baby!" Yeah. Edited October 22, 2004 by Babs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted October 22, 2004 #11 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Anyway, when you change the laws, the culture begins to change and then you are able to teach the children to respect women. Right now, in these cultures, you aren't allowed to teach a child 'a thing like that'! What?! respect for women?!..."Don't' beat a woman??" ...unheard of_ and punishable by_ yet another beating. But, do you see what I am saying... the women or even the men over there would be stoned if they tried to teach children this, now. Most people in these cultures because of their laws and up-bringing don't see anything wrong with it (or if they do they keep their mouths shut). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar Posted October 22, 2004 #12 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Men who treat women like that are totall scum , the same can be said about women who treat men the same way. Its sad that a country still goes along with this sort of thing , I once tried to help a women from her beating Boyfriend, A mistake I will make again and again. After knocking the guy on the floor the Women Screamed he's attacking my boyfriend!! When i looked at her bewildered a police oficer Broke my jaw with a trunchoen. All this on New years 2000. I night i will remember for the worng reasons Not that this relates directly to the turkish story, In the West Domestic Violence isnt helped when the victims refuse to help themselves What twpdyp said is so true , my parents treated me the exact same way and there is absolutley no way I would raise my hand without physical provication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 23, 2004 Author #13 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Babs, I'm hoping I'm just misreading your posts, but you seem to be coming off of accusing all men in general of abusing women rather than a minority. I don't know how it is in the US, maybe you have to catch up or something, but in western Europe we've been tackling domestic violence for generations, and although it still effects a fifth of marriages, that’s a far cry from all men being guilt of it. Furthermore, it’s estimated that one in seven victims of domestic abuse are male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted October 23, 2004 #14 Share Posted October 23, 2004 furthermore in the cultures where it is acceptable they all know its wrong but it allows them to stay in their position of power. Its disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 23, 2004 Author #15 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I correct myself, this site claims its closer to 30% of victims are male - http://www.batteredmen.com/batrNVAWf.htm He's some other sites; http://www.batteredmen.com/batresrh.htm http://www.safe4all.org/essays/2page.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 23, 2004 Author #16 Share Posted October 23, 2004 furthermore in the cultures where it is acceptable they all know its wrong but it allows them to stay in their position of power. Actually they don't think its wrong, that’s the problem. And if Multi-Culturalism had its way instead of condemning it we'd be trying 'to open our minds and understand the values inherent in other cultures'. God PC has gone insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted October 23, 2004 #17 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Actually they don't think its wrong, that’s the problem. And if Multi-Culturalism had its way instead of condemning it we'd be trying 'to open our minds and understand the values inherent in other cultures'. God PC has gone insane. not so sure i agree with you there. In most of these country's life is cheap. Everyone knows from birth that hurting someone even if its at some basic level is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 23, 2004 Author #18 Share Posted October 23, 2004 In most of these country's life is cheap. Exactly their culture is appalling, and we should not learn from it. However, luckily cultures can evolve, as if you go back enough more western had similar appalling records... and unfortunately you don't have to go that far e.g. Britain during the Boar War, Germany in the 1930-1940s, USA up to the 1960s etc etc Everyone knows from birth that hurting someone even if its at some basic level is wrong. I'm not so sure, I'm convinced a cultural thing is behind this also. In the 1890s Britain killing Boars was seen as okay because they weren't considered equals, in Nazi Germany they were convinced that mass murder of anyone who didn't fit in was okay, and up to (and even after the Civil Rights) many in the Southern States of America acted no better than these people to the black population. Inherently believing hurting people was wrong didn't seem to count much for anything, because they people all thought they were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyr Posted October 23, 2004 #19 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Stop generalizing and talking about cultures you dont know the first thing about In our culture we are taught to refrain from commenting on things we dont understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted October 23, 2004 #20 Share Posted October 23, 2004 what so there isnt a problem of wife beating in turkey no.....? until women are treated as equals then ill comment on what i bloody want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted October 23, 2004 #21 Share Posted October 23, 2004 (edited) Stop generalizing and talking about cultures you dont know the first thing about In our culture we are taught to refrain from commenting on things we dont understand Isn't it better that we genralise than make specific statements? In my culture we are taught to try and learn and educate ourselves with different cultures around the world. We feel this is important to the intergration of others and has done us well for a very long time. We are also taught to question things not just take everything we hear for granted and. This is called educating oneself and not being gullible enough to believe the first thing that is said. Oh yes one more thing. It is widely known of the abuse of women in Turkey this is nothing new. Edited October 23, 2004 by Lottie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephyr Posted October 23, 2004 #22 Share Posted October 23, 2004 There are surely men who beat their wives in Turkey, but then there are men who beat their wives everywhere I have my ideas though on why one place in particular is pointed out at this time No Lottie, it is not better that we generalize! I know, it is very hard to distinguish the truth in a thick cloud of propaganda:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 23, 2004 Author #23 Share Posted October 23, 2004 There are surely men who beat their wives in Turkey, but then there are men who beat their wives everywhere I have my ideas though on why one place in particular is pointed out at this time No Lottie, it is not better that we generalize! I know, it is very hard to distinguish the truth in a thick cloud of propaganda:rolleyes: So your denying the treatment of women is worst than in the west, all just nasty, bad, untrustworthy western propaganda yeah right, its that kind of denial and refusal to shed light on issues which doesn't bring around any form of solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girty1600 Posted October 23, 2004 #24 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I had a boyfriend in college that thought he could raise his hand against me because I wouldn't drive him to see his buddies one night when he was drunk. It only took one hit from him to break my nose. The next day, after i got home from the hospital to have my nose reset, I went back over to his apartment and broke up with him, told him I never wanted to see him again. He grabbed me and tried to shake me. I pushed him off of me and hit him until he fell down. I then kicked him in the but, went home and called his mother. I never heard from him again...and good riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatAstrofix Posted October 23, 2004 #25 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Violence is always ugly. Good for you to get rid of him. In this Turkey's case they are trying somehow to milden the severity of the crime by stating that it's a cultural thing and long tradition. From my opinion having to live in a fear of violence because of your gender is plain sexist discrimination and denying the basic humanrights. Just because something is commonly done it doesn't make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts