Some Turkish women 'back beating'

[CatAstrofix]

Media rarely tells the whole story, true. It does focus on some specific viewpoint, and therefore might give false impression about the country as a whole. Travelling is a great thing, but being somewhere as a tourist is bit different from actually living in there. I also know an elderly man who has travelled and lived in several eastern and asian countries, like Pakistan, Afganistan, Iraq, India, Saudi-Arabia etc. The list is long, and about Iraq he forexample said that all those things that are shown on tv, aren't visible on the streets. It seemed to be a friendly and hospitable place. There he visited a month before the war started... anyway. I'm sure your experiences are true, but still, you saw only a little part of the country and it's reality. It's very positive to see attitudes like yours among young ppl, it gives hope for bit better future.

[Erikl]

Thanks for these positive words, but I would like to point out that as opposed to youre friend, I am not the only Israeli to visit Turkey - there are some 300,000 Israelis like me who do that each year - most of them come back with the same impression.

There is also a big Jewish community in Turkey - some of them migrated to Israel or lived in Israel for some years - so Israelis are quite familiar with that country.

As I said - one of my friends that came with us to this trip has already been to Turkey before.

[alis]

well wun, you keep making your wild assumptions about the middle east, and i will keep making wild assumptions based on you, how does it feel? because i know how it feels when someone rants on about a culture he really doesnt have a clue about.

so you think retirement homes are cruel, where they have on hand medical support, emergeny alarms to alert ambulances , regulated meals , people who check on them daily.

Or is it just that in the ME because women are treated so badly and made to work so hard al their life, that after all the beatings and fear that they may receive a beating for making the slightest mistake , that they dont reach retirement age , or merely that in most ME cultures women never get the chance to "retire" lol.

for someone so concerned about the treatment of women in the ME, im amazed you found your last words so funny.

ive heard horror stories from some retirement homes, ok. Plus recently the news has shown footage of carers abusing kids in playgroups, its not every playgroup for sure, but then not every muslim burnt the american flag on the day of 9/11. in case you didnt know, there were muslims in the towers aswell as the planes on that day, and there were families from countries such as Iran, mourning their loved ones too, others were just relieved their loved ones werent involved in the horiffic attacks. one muslim woman on one of the flights was pregnant so your assumptions about how the muslim world felt about that day is masked by the media totally.

[Talon]

the point is talon, i am not trying to incite hatred about the west. did i start a topic about how nurses in care homes in britain have been filmed abusing elderly people? did i start any topic about anti western issues????dont you think the last years of a person's life are just as important as the years that go before it???? i dont hear any of you mention how its also a cultural thing in the middle east to look after the elderly in your own home.

Trust me Alis, some of are capable of taking criticisms of our country. If you want to post an article about it Lottie and I will say it’s a horrible thing and all part of political correctness or some such… we will not start claiming its anti-British and deny it.

well whoopee do to you too talon for knowing two families in britain where they look after their elders. have you looked in the job section recently talon cos im looking for a part time job to go with my studies, and there are plenty of jobs working for nursing homes in my area. i guess its just the area that i live in that refuses to take care of the very people who bring them into this world, resorting in the elderly whithering away in the care of strangers. and the anti western generalisation thing, i hope was a joke.

No, its wasn’t a joke, your posts are becoming more and more inflammatory and personal with each new one. If you want the job so badly take it, look after an old person, I’m not stopping you, but you are aware we have an aging population here right, and the work culture insane (see I can criticise my own culture... can't here myself shouting 'you a racist' at all ), of course there are a lot of care homes. Doesn’t mean it’s the same for all westerners.

talon cant you see that you slag off my fathers culture, and half mine, not even looking at the problems your own culture has. leah betts ring any bells to you?? its easy to slag off someone else's culture, i recognise the problems in the middle east through my mother's eyes but at the same time i see the problems in the west through my father's eyes. 

I have tons of criticisms about my own culture, do even bother read my own posts, do you even notice that I’ve attacked everything about Britain from youth-orientated culture, lack of capital punishment, political correctness, capitalism, environment etc etc You see, Alis, some of us are capable of seeing the flaws in our own culture and except it from others without thinking reverting to calling them Anti-… Christian or whatever it is. Its just a pity others can’t. Whether you want to admit complaining about this negative view of women explained in the article amongst Turkey is not anti-Islamic.

[Talon]

perhaps im a little sensitive as the west are currently torturing, raping, killing, making homless many people in the region, then are just slagging off the region and calling the people there idiots. 

Yeah, if you actually read the people your attacking on this thread’s other posts, you’ll find we’re heavily critical of the actions of some of the soldiers in the Coalition … yeah, but forget that, easier just to believe everyone’s anti-Islam.

and thats countries like france taking away women's rights to wear the veil

Yeah, your completely ignoring that EVERY religion is covered by that, and it has bugger all to do with anti-Islamia, it has to do with the fact that the Church has controlled the state for hundreds of years, and the states had enough and told the church NO RELIGION, ANY RELIGION in state controlled institutions including schools. Jews aren’t allowed to wear skull caps, Christians aren’t allowed to wear crosses, Shiks aren’t allowed to wear turbans, Muslims aren’t allowed to wear head scarf’s. … yeah, but forget that, easier just to believe everyone’s anti-Islam.

for example we all agree that there is a problem with the number of asylum seekers in this country, but when our country is going into their country and attacking it from every angle,

… we’re not attacking North Africa… which it were most Asylum seekers are coming from at the moment. … yeah, but forget that, easier just to believe everyone’s anti-Islam.

unfortunately i often hear about asylum seekers and refugees being attacked here, and in a few cases even killed. when will the double standards that exist, perish???

Yeah, done by a few bigots WHO DO NOT MAKE UP THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION. … yeah, but forget that, easier just to believe everyone’s anti-Islam.

do yourself a favour and crawl under a rock!!!!

God, reverting to insults now

lol then you'll no im against the war wont you...., yi think you'll find you look rather foolish now eh

I don’t think that matters, easier just to believe everyone’s anti-Islam.

Anybody can claim to be a muslim! What counts at the end of the day is the way people behave and their actions! What terrorists do has nothing to do with Islam, even if the terrorists themselves claim otherwise! They are terrorists for god's sake, are you going to believe what they say?

Hate to break it to you, but every religion has its fruit cakes. The IRA blow up people because of the Protestant vs Catholic thing. Do we run around saying ‘THEY’RE NOT CATHOLICS!’ … no of course, not. Because they are. All we can do is think ‘thank god, that’s just a fringe ground who make up a fraction of the population’. Why can’t you do the same?

As for protests; as you might know it is not very easy to organize street protests in the ME unless the governments are for those demonstrations.

And then you claim we’re anti-Islamic when we criticise things like that… couldn’t just be that we’re pro-human rights no? ... nah easier just to believe everyone’s anti-Islam.

I think it has to do with us men; we just dont know how to behave ourselves when there are women around 

Oh god I don’t know about you, but I don’t know any guys, including myself, who doesn’t know how to behave around women.

[alis]

easier just to believe everyone’s anti-Islam

its also easier to believe the ME are a bunch of idiots for the way they treat women isnt it?

Oh god  I don’t know about you, but I don’t know any guys, including myself, who doesn’t know how to behave around women.

then you've never heard of sexual harassment in the work place before have you?

or seen a pretty woman walk past a bunch of builders before.

Edited October 27, 2004 by alis

[zephyr]

I thought I had made myself clear enough in previous posts, but if people still insist on believing a bunch of murderers with covered faces on a video as to their identity and where they come from, so be it, cant help anymore, sorry!

[Guest Lottie]

then you've never heard of sexual harassment in the work place before have you?

Nowadays you will find that there is rarely any sexual harrasment that takes place in the workplace due to strict laws and guidelines and codes of practice that are used. Women are protected! Those who are harrassed in the workplace have these laws and guidelines that protect them and the perpetrators are dealt with.

This is a completely different issue to women who are beaten, tortured and raped daily and treated like an animal because in that particular culture it is socially acceptable to do so. In my culture its not.

or seen a pretty woman walk past a bunch of builders before.

Yes you could argue this is a form of harrasment but yet again it is not anything near the same as some of the attrocites committed elsewhere.

[Guest Lottie]

I'm sorry, but this article from the BBC is a complete rubbish (surprise surprise...).

I've just returned from Turkey, Antalya, yesterday afternoon.

I've been there for 8 days, lived there, spoke with the local population, ate with Turks, laughed with them, and drove with them.

Everyone knew I was an Israeli, and it only made them happier (Israel and Turkey are close allies). I think this is the only place abroad that being an Israeli gave me more benifits than other nationals (even in the US I didn't get such a warm treatment).

Erikl you were there for 8 days in a popular tourist destination! I am sure it helps that you are Israeli and 300,000 as you said Israeli's go there every year and there is a huge community of Jewish settlers there too. I have also been there and it was quite different for me, I had to be careful out there, there was unfortunately under tones of sexism everywhere and as a western woman and being blonde and blue eyed it does not help.

This is a thread about women being tortured over there and yet you still have to put in your two pence worth as to why you feel Europeans fear Turkey

[alis]

Nowadays you will find that there is rarely any sexual harrasment that takes place in the workplace due to strict laws and guidelines and codes of practice that are used.

will you find that. its funny but my mum a couple of years ago didnt find that, unless you count a man telling you how georgeous you are and heavy breathing on your neck is acceptable now, or a boss spanking your arss for no apparent reason like my ex boss.

[Subtemperate]

Funny thing is about people who comit those sort of things in the workplace... They tend to home in on people who will not stand up for themselves, and therefore can't be helped. Did either you or your mother take a stand?

[Guest Lottie]

Nowadays you will find that there is rarely any sexual harrasment that takes place in the workplace due to strict laws and guidelines and codes of practice that are used.

will you find that. its funny but my mum a couple of years ago didnt find that, unless you count a man telling you how georgeous you are and heavy breathing on your neck is acceptable now, or a boss spanking your arss for no apparent reason like my ex boss.

327909[/snapback]

That is not acceptable and I am sure that if your mother had, and I am guessing she did, tell someone in authortiy about this the person would have been dealt with accordingly. Sexual harrasment in the work place is viewed as a serious crime.

[alis]

Funny thing is about people who comit those sort of things in the workplace... They tend to home in on people who will not stand up for themselves, and therefore can't be helped. Did either you or your mother take a stand?

how dare you? are you going to tell me that all rape victims are those who dont stand up for themselves??? i left my job if you must know, and my mother told my father who 'had a word' with the guy. my mother didnt want to make a fuss and didnt need to once my father had intervened.

[Subtemperate]

You didnt say rape.... I was talking about your specifc instances.... How dare I what exactly? Say that people will try to manipulate those they think that they can get away with it? That is not a big statement I made.

[Guest Lottie]

how dare you? are you going to tell me that all rape victims are those who dont stand up for themselves??? i left my job if you must know, and my mother told my father who 'had a word' with the guy. my mother didnt want to make a fuss and didnt need to once my father had intervened.

Are you saying that you or your mother were raped? You said previously about heavy breathing and bottom spanking... Your mother should have told her manager or someone of higher ranking and should have gone to the police. These laws are there to protect and the person who did whatever he did would of been dealt with and charged with assault. Of course your father is going to intervene but whoever did this has got away with it and hence the laws that were there to protect your mother were not used. So you cannot say Alis that people are not protected your mother chose not to go through the proper channels which means that whoever this is has got away with it.

[alis]

Are you saying that you or your mother were raped?

dont be sooooooooooooo stupid.

Funny thing is about people who comit those sort of things in the workplace... They tend to home in on people who will not stand up for themselves, and therefore can't be helped. Did either you or your mother take a stand?

tell me, am i sitting back and not standing up for myself and what i believe in now???

Alis that people are not protected your mother chose not to go through the proper channels which means that whoever this is has got away with it.

if she had reported, she would have had to compile evidence, sit in court probably and make an even bigger deal out of something, she really wanted to forget. i understand where your're coming from with she should have reported, cos he could do the same in the future to someone else, however she just wanted the whole nightmare over if you can understand that.

[Babs]

When was the last time a woman raped a man? When was the last time a woman beat a man? When was the last time a woman killed a man?

Granted there are times, but these are the exception. It is always a man harming a woman. And why?...Because he can.

In my education in domestic violence we know of men who are abused. But we don't linger on this as there are so many (more) women that are abused! (compare this to the paltry numbers of men).

Also, the men's domestic violence is a little different. A man isn't terrified. A man knows he is stronger than the woman and therefore psychologically and physically, it is different, much different.

When was the last time a 'help' phone was put in a parking lot for a man to report harrassment from the ladies?

[Guest Lottie]

dont be sooooooooooooo stupid.

whatever alis...

[alis]

erhm when did i mention anything about men being victim of domestic violence?did i say there werent such cases, or anything to that affect? youre not trying to side track the topic are you cos im not disputing that there is a small percentage of men being leared at work or elsewhere by women.

[gollum]

When was the last time a woman raped a man? When was the last time a woman beat a man? When was the last time a woman killed a man?

Granted there are times, but these are the exception. It is always a man harming a woman. And why?...Because he can.

In my education in domestic violence we know of men who are abused. But we don't linger on this as there are so many (more) women that are abused!  (compare this to the paltry numbers of men).

Also, the men's domestic violence is a little different. A man isn't terrified. A man knows he is stronger than the woman and therefore psychologically and physically, it is different, much different.

When was the last time a 'help' phone was put in a parking lot for a man to report harrassment from the ladies?

327974[/snapback]

One word........ Misandrist.

[Babs]

gollum...Definition please.

[Michelle]

"One word......Misandrist."

Could you clarify that for me gollum? I'm not familiar with that term.

[Babs]

gollum...one word for you....loser.

Edited October 27, 2004 by Babs

[Celumnaz]

im not disputing that there is a small percentage of men being leared at work or elsewhere by women.

Where? I wanna work there!

When I was like 14 a gang of 7 or 8 girls my age 'attacked' me at a local mall. I was shocked, embarrassed, kinda thought I should be enjoying this what's wrong with me but it wasn't enjoyable. They just surrounded me, felt me all up and pretty much got most of my clothes off/unbuttoned. I couldn't figure out which one to struggle with, would turn my attention to one and 5 more pairs of hands would be somewhere else. Was awkward to say the least. Wish it would happen when I'm ready for it.

The other time I once again became an exception to another rule was when I was I think 17? Had an oversexed girlfriend, there were several times I 'did it' when I didn't want to. Two times in particular she pulled me down as I was trying to walk away, straddled me so I couldn't get up, and did her business. She was a track star and in the cheer squad and had these huge muscular legs... but she wore me out, and on those 2 occasions I actually felt violated. heh.

Then there was the time a woman chained me to an excorcise bike and set my back on fire after the leather whip broke... but I kinda wanted to be there that time...

I'm sure everyone wanted to know that. Am I being pointless again? Sorry.

[Michelle]

Never mind gollum....no wonder I wasn't familiar with it.