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Some Turkish women 'back beating'


Talon
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The very fact that we have shelters in this country to protect women against violence illustrates that this country has a problem too. The first time i ever met my mother's childhood bestfriend, she was missing teeth, had two black eyes and yellowy bruising everywhere. her boyfriend who had done this to her, was austrailian. Wife beating occurs all over the world. Unfortunately most countries dont have facilities to help these women, England has had these shelters in widespread, for less than 20 years. i dont think we should be here discussing how bad turkey is when its going on under our noses. the women in turkey who put up with this treatment are just like any western woman who stays with her husband while he beats her. They stay with their husbands partly out of lack of self worth and love.

In most of these country's life is cheap

that's what bush keeps telling himself! laugh.gif

what so there isnt a problem of wife beating in turkey no.....?

until women are treated as equals then ill comment on what i bloody want.

what so there isnt a problem of wife beating in the US or the UK where there's a shelter for battered wifes not 10 miles away from me???

either you're saying that your country doesnt have a wife beating problem or your saying that because your country can afford to provide shelters for these women, it isnt classed as a problem.

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The very fact that we have shelters in this country to protect women against violence illustrates that this country has a problem too.

But we don't try to underplay it

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Which the media made sure everyone knew

And how many dont we know about?????????????????????????????? tongue.gif

How many didnt have to smile for the camera??????????????

How many didnt GET to have their picture taken????????????

Edited by alis
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No idea, but we don't use the excuse, 'it happens else where, so who cares' .... huh.gif well.... most of us don't

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well i have the view, look in the mirror before you critisise! in the west we have had parents inject their children with the HIV virus so as to not pay child support, shootings in schools, drive by shootings in the states, child prostitution, an influx of eastern european sex slaves, deaths at football matches and drugs so cheap that children can afford to buy theem with their pocket money, not to mention marital violence. i hardily think we can talk. my opinion would be to clean up our own mess, then start on others!

Edited by alis
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well i have the view, look in the mirror before you critisise!

No need to get agressive, we're suppost to be friends

in the west we have had parents inject their children with the HIV virus so as to not pay child support, shootings in schools, drive by shootings in the states, child prostitution, an influx of eastern european sex slaves, deaths at football matches and drugs so cheap that children can afford to buy theem with their pocket money. i hardily think we can talk. my opinion would be to clean up our own mess, then start on others!

Yes, but we don't deny them, and they are still banned by the government.

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what do you expect when you imply i use that excuse!

No idea, but we don't use the excuse, 'it happens else where, so who cares' ....  well.... most of us don't

Yes, but we don't deny them, and they are still banned by the government.

the same government who ignored the UN's diecision regarding the Iraq war??

Edited by alis
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I never said you did. I'm talking about zephyr. And why have you blocked me PMing you?

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the same government who ignored the UN's diecision regarding the Iraq war??

You know very well I hate the Bush administration, and I don't vote Labour.

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General Statistics

Of all crimes reported to the British Crime Survey 2000 more than 1 in 20 were classified as domestic violence. The British Crime Survey: England and Wales. London: Home Office, 2000.

Domestic violence accounts for almost a quarter (23%) of all violent crime. The British Crime Survey: England and Wales. London: Home Office, 2000.

In 1999 37% of women homicide victims were killed by present or former partners, compared to 6% of men. This totals 92 women, - 1 every 3 days, or 2 women per week. Criminal Statistics England & Wales 1999. London: Home Office, 1999.

Women are at greatest risk of homicide at the point of separation or after leaving a violent partner. Lees, S. 'Maritial rape and marital murder', IN Hanmer, J et al. Home Truths about Domestic Violence: Feminist Influences on Policy and Practice: A Reader. London: Routledge, 2000.

It is estimated that one in four women will experience domestic violence at some time in their lives. Domestic Violence: a Health Care Issue. London: BMA, 1998.

Domestic violence often continues and may escalate in severity after separation. Mirrlees-Black, C. Domestic Violence: BCS Self-Completion Questionnaire. London : Home Office, 1999.

We also know that violence against women and children knows no boundaries of culture, age, sexual preference, body ability, class, ethnicity or creed. Lloyd, S. 'Defining violence against women', IN Bewley S, Friend J and Mezey G (Eds). Violence Against Women. London: RCOG, 1997.

1 in 5 young men and 1 in 10 young women think that abuse or violence against women is acceptable. Zero Tolerance Charitable Trust. 1998.

Repeat victimisation is common. More than half of all victims of domestic violence are involved in more than 1 incident . No other type of crime has a rate of repeat victimisation as high. British Crime Survey England and Wales 2000. London: Home Office, 2000.

On average a woman will be assaulted by her partner or ex partner 35 times before reporting it to the police. Yearnshire, S. 'Analysis of cohort', IN Bewley S, Friend J and Mezey G (Eds). Violence Against Women. London: RCOG, 1997.

Domestic violence is the least likely violent crime to be reported to the police. The British Crime Survey 2000 found that just under 1/3 of incidents were reported. British Crime Survey England and Wales 2000. London: Home Office, 2000.

Every minute in the UK, the police receive a call from the public for assistance for domestic violence. This leads to police receiving an estimated 1,300 calls each day or over 570,000 each year. Professor Stanko, E. 'The Day to Count: A Snapshot of the Impact of Domestic Violence in the UK'. Criminal Justice 1:2, 2000.

In any one-day nearly 7,000 women and children are sheltering from violence in refuges in the United Kingdom. Women's Aid Federation of England.

An estimated 19,910 women and 28,520 children stayed in refuges in England in the year ending 31 March 1998. Women's Aid Federation of England, 1999.

On the 'Day to Count', 200 women asked for safe refuge in England (nearly 300 in the UK) and could not be accommodated in already full refuges. Professor Stanko, E. 'The Day to Count: A Snapshot of the Impact of Domestic Violence in the UK'. Criminal Justice 1:2, 2000.

Over 35,000 women called the Women's Aid National Domestic Violence Helpline this year (2000). Women's Aid Federation of England, 2001.

The estimated total costs in providing advice, support and assistance for those facing domestic violence in Greater London are £278 million (per year). Professor Stanko, E et al. Counting the Costs. London: Crime Concern, 1998.

76% of the children who had court ordered contact were said to have been further abused as a result of contact being set up. Radford, L et al. Unreasonable Fears. Bristol: Women's Aid, 1999.

A 1996 British Crime Survey by the Home Office revealed that 12% of disabled women aged 16-29 had experienced domestic violence in 1995. This compares with 8.2% of non-disabled women of the same age. Mirrlees-Black, C. Domestic Violence: BCS Self-Completion Questionnaire. London: Home Office, 1999.

Nearly 1 in 5 counselling sessions held in Relate Centres in England on 28/9/00 mentioned domestic violence as an issue in the marriage. In Northern Ireland this rose to over 1 in 5. Professor Stanko, E. 'The Day to Count: A Snapshot of the Impact of Domestic Violence in the UK'. Criminal Justice 1:2, 2000.

Weapons are less likely to be used in assaults but victims of domestic violence are more likely to be injured. British Crime Survey England and Wales 2000. London: Home Office, 2000.

source

Recent research shows:

Two women in the UK die each week as a result of domestic abuse and one in four are victims of domestic violence

Domestic violence often begins or escalates when a woman becomes pregnant

70% of women under 30 fear they could be raped

A third of young men think they can force women to have sex under certain circumstances

Reported rape has risen by 165% in the past 10 years, although the conviction rate is said to be falling. This is partly thought to be the result of women feeling more able to report rape and partly a rise in reports of date rape

Nurses are the most likely workers to be assaulted while doing their job

source

Stop violence against women

USA –‘If I die, I want you to tell the world what happened to me’

Amnesty International

[p2/3]

Beyond the protection of the law - violence in the family

"If I die, I want you to tell the world what happened to me. I don’t want other women to suffer as I have suffered. I want them to be listened to."

María Teresa Macias (Teresa) had good reason to fear that her husband would kill her. In the 18 months before her death, Teresa appealed to the police more than 20 times. Her husband beat and sexually assaulted her and their three children. After Teresa fled the family home, he stalked her constantly, terrorizing her and making repeated death threats. On 15 April 1996 he shot and killed her, then shot her mother twice before turning the gun on himself.

Not once in the preceding months was Teresa’s husband arrested for flouting court orders that prohibited him from going near her or contacting her. Appeals to the police for assistance were ignored, rarely even documented, and no follow-up action was taken. Women’s rights groups investigated the case, organized legal assistance and support for Teresa’s family, and launched a national campaign.

Only after six years of legal proceedings was the Sheriff’s Department in Sonoma County, California, held to account for its failure to protect María Teresa Macias. Teresa’s family initiated a federal civil rights lawsuit, contending that she had been denied her constitutional rights by being denied equal protection under the law because she was a woman, a victim of violence in the family and a member of an ethnic minority.

In July 2000 the US Court of Appeals found that Teresa’s constitutional rights to benefit from police protection in a non-discriminatory manner had been denied, reversing an earlier ruling dismissing the case. In June 2002 the Sheriff’s Department paid Teresa’s family one million US dollars in compensation.

The precedent-setting court ruling and award were powerful reminders to law enforcement agencies throughout the USA of their legal obligation to protect women from violence. The ruling underlined the authorities’ obligations to take effective steps to prevent and punish violence against women, whoever the perpetrator.

Yet such court rulings are not enough. According to the latest government figures, there were almost 700,000 incidents of domestic violence in the USA in 2001. Around a third of women murdered each year are killed by a current or former partner. In spite of increases in national budgets and initiatives to combat violence against women – such as "family justice" centres that will integrate support services for victims of violence in the family – women like Teresa continue to suffer because they are not given the protection they need.

source

i thought i'd add a few clips from articles ive read. its important we address the problem at home before criticising other countries i believe. im not saying that what goes on in turkey doesnt matter, only that talking as if domestic violence is unheard of in the west is ignorant.

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alis, you're 100% right about the fact that there's a mess elsewhere to be cleaned too and what's a better place to start than your own backyard. In Turkey however beating your wife, mother, sister, is not regonized as a problem. In many cases it is not only ignored and unpunished, but also accepted. That's what makes it a special problem.

There won't be such a time that in western world things would be so perfect that we could ever point the finger only to someone else. We can't say to turkish women (in this specific case), that not until the domestic violence is completely unknown in our own countries, we focus to help them.

Just the fact, that this Turkish woman "back beating" has started a conversation about the situation in western countries shows that it is a matter that should be concentrated everywhere. The problem is just as serious wherever it exists, and it indeed is everywhere.

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There are surely men who beat their wives in Turkey, but then there are men who beat their wives everywhere  I have my ideas though on why one place in particular is pointed out at this time 

No Lottie, it is not better that we generalize! I know, it is very hard to distinguish the truth in a thick cloud of propaganda:rolleyes:

So your denying the treatment of women is worst than in the west, all just nasty, bad, untrustworthy western propaganda whistling2.gif yeah right, its that kind of denial and refusal to shed light on issues which doesn't bring around any form of solution.

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Yes I'm denying that! I think women in general are treated badly everywhere and this is independent of regional cultures! The means used and the extent of mistreatments might differ from one place to another, but the concept is the same! What is not fair here is that often one country gets singled out on a global social issue, and that is only for political reasons! cool.gif

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The difference between Turkey and say the UK with domestic violence is that in Turkey its "socially acceptable" in the UK its NOT!

Of course there is domestic abuse everywhere in the world the difference is that in countries such as the UK, the U.S, Australia and other western countries domestic violence is condemmed and there are laws enforced to protect these women and women are not treated as second class citizens.

Edited by Lottie
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how about sudan then????????? or are we just singling out the middle east? another excuse to go to war? this time its violence against women. women are DYING in sudan, subjected to torture, rape, yet when there is a post about sudan, it seems the lack of responses to the post illustrate just how important the issues in Sudan are to people.

In Somalia women are circumcised when they reach puberty. the act is so painful that the women have to be held down while someone (not a doctor) completes the operation.

Edited by alis
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The difference between Turkey and say the UK with domestic violence is that in Turkey its "socially acceptable" in the UK its NOT!

Of course there is domestic abuse everywhere in the world the difference is that in countries such as the UK, the U.S, Australia and other western countries domestic violence is condemmed and there are laws enforced to protect these women and women are not treated as second class citizens.

322362[/snapback]

Does this mean that the Turks dont have to worry about leaving marks while the Westerners do? wacko.gif

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Does this mean that the Turks dont have to worry about leaving marks while the Westerners do? wacko.gif

Oh for christ sake grow up.

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how about sudan then????????? or are we just singling out the middle east? another excuse to go to war? this time its violence against women.  women are DYING in sudan, subjected to torture, rape,  yet when there is a post about sudan, it seems the lack of responses to the post illustrate just how important the issues in Sudan are to people.

In Somalia women are circumcised when they reach puberty. the act is so painful that the women have to be held down while someone (not a doctor) completes the operation.

322454[/snapback]

And your point is...

I never disputed that there were not acts of violence toward women all over the world. I said that in many countries, western, acts of violence are condemmed and laws are put in place to protect women and women are not seen and not treated as second rate citizens or animals.

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sack being p/c ali its not racist but yeah the ME are a bunch of idiots wen it comes to women, how can u attempt to justify theyre attitude towards women lol.

Sudan is a part arab culture as well , and lets not forget what the arabs are doing in sudan you know all the Rape and murder.

If your askintg us do we think we are better ethen then i answer yes, we treat women with the respect theydeserve they done , its a cold fact.

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Does this mean that the Turks dont have to worry about leaving marks while the Westerners do? wacko.gif

Oh for christ sake grow up.

322475[/snapback]

Okay original.gif but I still think you are making statements about countries that you dont know properly! So this is not a good argument to use against Turkey, since everyone here; including yourself admit that violence against women is a global problem! w00t.gif

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And your point is...

People such as yourself are inciting hatred towards the middle east, the arab world, and muslims in general, criticising a culture you know very little about, saying that it is a cultural thing, well i ask you how many times you have visited the middle east, how many middle eastern people do you know to tell you the 'stuff' that you are coming out with, because i bet the answer is zero. little do you know about the culture, otherwise you wouldnt be so interested by it. women are the make up of families in the middle east, and yes i said the word families, a word that many westerners have forgotton the meaning of. many women actually wear the trousers in the muslim world, but i dont expect you to believe it after all the propaganda that you have been fed. Afteral the west is being taught to hate and fear muslims and they are doing a fine job of it too. did you know that at the begining of the 1980's turkey was ahead of the USA in the percentage of women working in professional jobs. it was something like 16% of lawyers were women in turkey, compared to only 3-4% in the USA.

if you only search for the bad in something, bad is all you will find.

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If your askintg us do we think we are better ethen then i answer yes, we treat women with the respect theydeserve they done , its a cold fact.

personally i prefer the meaning of the word familiy in the middle east, it actually means something did you know, not like here where its just a word to describe those with similar genetic make-up. what do the west do with the elderly when they cant look after themselves, put them in a nursing home and pay some stranger to hopefully look after them in their last days!! thumbsup.gif

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Thanks Lottie, at least someone wlse gets what I'm arguing.

Okay  but I still think you are making statements about countries that you dont know properly! So this is not a good argument to use against Turkey, since everyone here; including yourself admit that violence against women is a global problem!

And what you are constantly ignoring is, its been illegal here for generations, and we do not have one-third of women saying its a man's right to beat them. And also ignoring "Correspondents say Turkish women enjoy greater freedoms than those in many other Muslim nations."

People such as yourself are inciting hatred towards the middle east, the arab world, and muslims in general,

nonsense. Why is it whenever someone mentions a criticism of someone elses domestic or foriegn suddenly it makes them anti-Semitic or anti-Arab.

criticising a culture you know very little about, saying that it is a cultural thing,

Of course its a cultural thing, laws are based on cultures, different cultures have different persepions of right and wrong.

little do you know about the culture, otherwise you wouldnt be so interested by it.

Actually normally an interest would mean some kind of knowledge

women are the make up of families in the middle east, and yes i said the word families, a word that many westerners have forgotton the meaning of.

Why is it our criticism of the middle East is anti-Arab or anti-Semitic, yet similar criticisms of western culture are not seen as such rolleyes.gif Devorce rates are up, whoopy-do, it does not prove for a second you accusation that we do not value family.

personally i prefer the meaning of the word familiy in the middle east, it actually means something did you know, not like here where its just a word to describe those with similar genetic make-up. what do the west do with the elderly when they cant look after themselves, put them in a nursing home and pay some stranger to hopefully look after them in their last days!!

More anti-western generalisation. It might surprise you, but I know only two families were the grandparents are still alive, and both of those families have the grandparents living with them.

many women actually wear the trousers in the muslim world,

and?

Afteral the west is being taught to hate and fear muslims and they are doing a fine job of it too.

Utter nonsense, its you who seems to have such negative views of us. If we're so evil and racist why even interact with us?

did you know that at the begining of the 1980's turkey was ahead of the USA in the percentage of women working in professional jobs.

So? The US gets a lot of flack too here, in fact everyone seems to get flack, its just most of us don't jump on it and start claiming we've the victim of western propoganda and racism rolleyes.gif

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