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People reject science because...

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Big Bad Voodoo

Yes, those vaccinations are ever so dastardly. They're only out to steal our money. Are you actually serious? In what branch of science did you receive your BS? Because as far as I'm aware there's no BS in just "Science." The science of what?

Those dastardly vaccinations! How dare they keep most of the Western world virtually free of old-time common killers like polio, diphtheria, measles, pertussis, and smallpox (to name but a few). All of these diseases are still prevalent in under-developed countries, which is why we're all well advised to get vaccinated before traveling there. Diseases such as cholera and tuberculosis are still commonly encountered in the Third World—and migrants from the Third World often bring diseases like tuberculosis with them when they settle in the West. So, clearly, the need to bring these vaccinations to the Third World is paramount.

Any argument attempting to state that vaccinations have had no effect or have no benefit in the world, is simply not a well-informed argument. Science can back this up.

Look at the differences in the ancient world as compared to today. Adults in ancient times usually did not live much past their middle thirties. At least thirty percent of all children died before the age of five. Approximately twenty percent of pregnancies ended in spontaneous miscarriage. Children were especially susceptible to such diseases because their underdeveloped immune systems couldn't fight them off. Today the average child in the West will live at least into his or her eighties, so I'd say the differences are patently obvious. The same benefit must be provided to children in Third World countries.

I will admit I do not understand religions in the West in which vaccinations are against doctrine and are not administered to children. I do not understand it, but as an American I understand freedom of religion and the rights that entails, however misguided the extremes might be at times. However, I cannot understand and will never accept the parents who have these benefits available to their children but refuse to take advantage of them merely because they believe in some socio-economic "conspiracy." To me this definitely borders on criminal—not only to the neglect of their children, but in the manner their infected children go on to infect other innocent children.

LOL Obviously this is an issue that gets me going.

Dear Kmt,

socio-economic conspiracy in vaccination exist. No matter how we kept silence about it. I usualy dont have much against vax you mentioned. But Im TOTALY against vaccines against flu. I would rather die from flu then from those vaccines.

I think its obvious that we have conspiracy in flu vaccine.

But even those you mentioned are questionable. Many of those diseases you mentioned are almost not harmfull at all.

What people from third world country needs is clean water and healthy food. Not GMO and vaccines. That would reduce disease. Not wonder drugs.

But why we dont see clean water help? Because there is no money in it.

Bill Gates suddenly become virologist. We see him explaining on TV how disease spread and so on. We see him in AGW agenda. We see him in Monsanto. He even buy stocks of Monsanto. What he doesnt say that his father was president of Eugenics society. What he doesnt say is that AGW is myth to tax people. What he dosent say is his monopol which ruin economy. What he doesnt say that vaccines are harmfull.

So there is many conspiracy and corruption in science. Surpression also.

How come that scientists in France conclude that GMO cause cancer? Polish scientists conclude that vaccines are harmfull and only in USA we have different results of studies?

Far as I know, gravity can be messured in India, Brasil, Russia, Germany, China and Japan. Not just in USA or UK. Gravity is almost same on whole globe. And we think that laws of physics are same in whole universe. That we cant confirm but thats what we believe.

So, even those diseases you mentioned- we can argue about justification of vaccination. I know that you in US and UK are under embargo of news. But we around the world read different stories. Different studies. Same as doctors from my country claim that ADHD doesnt exist and thats Anglosaxon "condition."

You have results of studies that Flouride is good for bones and theeths. And we get studies that Flouride isnt good for bones. In fact that cause reduce of IQ.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. ;)

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Mikko-kun

I know a lot of scientists and none of them are corrupt.

As far as you know.

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FurthurBB

Dear Kmt,

socio-economic conspiracy in vaccination exist. No matter how we kept silence about it. I usualy dont have much against vax you mentioned. But Im TOTALY against vaccines against flu. I would rather die from flu then from those vaccines.

I think its obvious that we have conspiracy in flu vaccine.

But even those you mentioned are questionable. Many of those diseases you mentioned are almost not harmfull at all.

What people from third world country needs is clean water and healthy food. Not GMO and vaccines. That would reduce disease. Not wonder drugs.

But why we dont see clean water help? Because there is no money in it.

Bill Gates suddenly become virologist. We see him explaining on TV how disease spread and so on. We see him in AGW agenda. We see him in Monsanto. He even buy stocks of Monsanto. What he doesnt say that his father was president of Eugenics society. What he doesnt say is that AGW is myth to tax people. What he dosent say is his monopol which ruin economy. What he doesnt say that vaccines are harmfull.

So there is many conspiracy and corruption in science. Surpression also.

How come that scientists in France conclude that GMO cause cancer? Polish scientists conclude that vaccines are harmfull and only in USA we have different results of studies?

Far as I know, gravity can be messured in India, Brasil, Russia, Germany, China and Japan. Not just in USA or UK. Gravity is almost same on whole globe. And we think that laws of physics are same in whole universe. That we cant confirm but thats what we believe.

So, even those diseases you mentioned- we can argue about justification of vaccination. I know that you in US and UK are under embargo of news. But we around the world read different stories. Different studies. Same as doctors from my country claim that ADHD doesnt exist and thats Anglosaxon "condition."

You have results of studies that Flouride is good for bones and theeths. And we get studies that Flouride isnt good for bones. In fact that cause reduce of IQ.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. ;)

You have provided no proof other than you assertion that there is any socio-economic conspiracy when it comes to vaccines. How can one keep quiet about something that they have never heard? Which one of these diseases are not harmful polio, diphtheria, measles, pertussis, and smallpox? People in the third world need clean water, healthy food, and vaccines. A lot of charities are already involved in the food and water aspect of things because that takes a lot less capital. Bill Gates has the resources to get into the vaccine charity. Apparently in the US where our water is already clean bottle water and filters are a multi-billion dollar a year market, so your statement about clean water having no profit is just wrong. Also, since providing clean water is a cheaper endeavor I am not sure where the "there is no money to be made" would even fit in. This is a charity, you know nonprofit, we are talking about. My father is a politician. I never told you that before and I am not sure why it would be any more important than what Bill Gates' father was. So, Bill believes something you do not, has nothing to do with vaccines. I own stock in Monsanto too. It is a good performer. I am not sure what you are trying to say. Post the studies where Polish scientists concluded that vaccines are harmful. The last line is just too funny. No study has ever shown that flouride is good for bones as far as I know and at toxic levels it causes pits in bones just like in teeth. Though, flouride is wonderful for teeth which has been proven by the fact that countries with naturally or added flouridation in their water have extremely lower incidence of dental carries. We also know that flouride at toxic levels can reduce IQ in children. If your house is in Denmark then I agree. You are getting some faulty information or have some faulty understanding of what you think you know.

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FurthurBB

As far as you know.

You left out the important parts of that post like they would be found out because other scientist replicate each others work and that one corrupt scientists does not corrupt science.

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kmt_sesh

Dear Kmt,

socio-economic conspiracy in vaccination exist. No matter how we kept silence about it. I usualy dont have much against vax you mentioned. But Im TOTALY against vaccines against flu. I would rather die from flu then from those vaccines.

I think its obvious that we have conspiracy in flu vaccine.

But even those you mentioned are questionable. Many of those diseases you mentioned are almost not harmfull at all.

What people from third world country needs is clean water and healthy food. Not GMO and vaccines. That would reduce disease. Not wonder drugs.

But why we dont see clean water help? Because there is no money in it.

Bill Gates suddenly become virologist. We see him explaining on TV how disease spread and so on. We see him in AGW agenda. We see him in Monsanto. He even buy stocks of Monsanto. What he doesnt say that his father was president of Eugenics society. What he doesnt say is that AGW is myth to tax people. What he dosent say is his monopol which ruin economy. What he doesnt say that vaccines are harmfull.

So there is many conspiracy and corruption in science. Surpression also.

How come that scientists in France conclude that GMO cause cancer? Polish scientists conclude that vaccines are harmfull and only in USA we have different results of studies?

Far as I know, gravity can be messured in India, Brasil, Russia, Germany, China and Japan. Not just in USA or UK. Gravity is almost same on whole globe. And we think that laws of physics are same in whole universe. That we cant confirm but thats what we believe.

So, even those diseases you mentioned- we can argue about justification of vaccination. I know that you in US and UK are under embargo of news. But we around the world read different stories. Different studies. Same as doctors from my country claim that ADHD doesnt exist and thats Anglosaxon "condition."

You have results of studies that Flouride is good for bones and theeths. And we get studies that Flouride isnt good for bones. In fact that cause reduce of IQ.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. ;)

Voodoo, old friend, I don't know how much I can respond to this if you honestly think some of the diseases I mentioned are "almost not harmful at all." Diseases such as smallpox, diphtheria, and tuberculosis have killed countless millions throughout history. Some of these diseases are still very problematic in Third World countries, and migrants from Third World countries bring the diseases to the West (here in Chicago migrants from Nigeria have brought tuberculosis with them). This is just basic medical science.

Your mention of digging wells for clean, safe water is on track. And this is one of the key things missions and institutes do in Third World countries. I met a man from the Sudan some years ago who was very grateful that Westerners dug a well for his village and provided safe water for his people. But a well addresses only certain diseases, most especially cholera (which was a primary killer in many Western cities until modern plumbing was introduced). The problem is much greater than that.

That said, I have a hard time taking your post seriously when you underestimate the dangers of these diseases. Distrust of the flu vaccine is another symptom of unhealthy fear, and perhaps an unhealthy obsession with "conspiracies." Certain strains of influenza have killed untold millions of people down through time (think of the Spanish flu in 1918). Many modern strains of flu can be very dangerous to young children, old people, or others with weakened immune systems. I fall into the latter category myself and get a flu vaccine every year. I often still get the flu, but it's significantly less severe than it would've been without the benefits of the vaccine.

I don't take part in most "conspiracy" discussions because, to be perfectly honest, I see very little merit in them. Most conspiracy advocates draw their information from half-baked websites in which facts are generally spare to begin with, or twisted to serve some agenda. The debate over vaccines is a good example. Those who argue against vaccines, in my experience, truly don't understand the benefits or the medical science involved. It's that simple.

Well, I guess I responded quite enough after all. :innocent:

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Frank Merton

I just can't see how anyone in their right mind can oppose vaccines with a good conscience. I guess they grew up without polio and hepatitis and tetanus and smallpox and so on, and have no feeling.

Sometimes pseudo-science is fairly harmless and can be tolerated; here it is not.

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kmt_sesh

I just can't see how anyone in their right mind can oppose vaccines with a good conscience. I guess they grew up without polio and hepatitis and tetanus and smallpox and so on, and have no feeling.

Sometimes pseudo-science is fairly harmless and can be tolerated; here it is not.

Like i mentioned in my earlier post, at least here in the United States it is sometimes based on religion. Some faiths do not allow vaccines or other forms of advanced medicine. I understand and appreciate my country's freedom of religion, and I accept that an adult is allowed to approach this matter however he or she wishes, but when it comes to keeping children from receiving such aid, I do personally believe it's grossly negligent and bordering on criminal. I don't understand how these people, who are so devout in their belief of God, can't accept that God made mankind with the intelligence to develop advanced medical treatments.

In other cases it's people who have an unhealthy obsession with conspiracies and a lack of critical-thinking skills. I've met people who refuse to vaccinate their children because they think "big business" or "shady government cabals" are out to get them. This is inane, plain and simple. I feel badly for the children of such misinformed parents, who might very well contract a life-threatening disease or, perhaps worse, are already carrying one and pass it along to other innocent children.

There is no excuse for this.

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Frank Merton

I don't know whether vaccines are mandatory in Vietnam or not, and I certainly am not aware of any religious group that might object. That said, it's a big country (although of course not as big as the States).

Vaccinations for children and most of the normal adult boosters are free upon the asking. No one keeps track except I do know that if parents of infants are lax about this the local party chair is likely to pay them a visit asking about it. I don't think though that it is compulsory, although one generally tries to cooperate with such people.

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Big Bad Voodoo

Dear Kmt,

Eisentein 2002, Golden 1998, Horowitz 1999.2001 , Miller 1999,Tenpenny 2005 show that vaccines are not responsible for stopping the three diseases ( whooping cough, diphtheria, rubella ) . We were never vaccinated against Scarlet fever ( and disease fell in exactly the same way as diseases for which we were vaccinated ) a vaccine against typhus was used very rarely . All the diseases against which we were vaccinated for are naturally already becoming extinct or they were in declime , probably due to the improvement of sanitary conditions .

Here is some info. Im not sure its all accurate but if you desire later I will post stats from wiki and WHO and you will see that almost completly true.

Polio

90% of people exposed to the virus receives only a cold or headache

54 % have no symptoms at all

3 percent gain that is not crippling polio

2 percent gain cripling polio and of these 50 % recover completely

Polio is not equal paralysis

The last case in the United States occurred in 1991(?) , however, children receive five doses of the vaccine to 5th year.

Hepatis B

50 % of those who become ill have no symptoms.

30 % gets only flu.

20 % get symptoms in hepatitis B (nausea , vomiting , jaundice ), and if you visit the doctor 95 % recover completely

5 percent of those who do not fully recover 75 % have asymptomatic infection . Without symptoms. 25 % get a liver disease or liver cancer .

This is 1.25% of the total number exposed to hepatitis B.

Transmitted by blood , sexual contact , and from mother to child

The vaccine Recombvax has not been explored is it safe for babies but we gives them , contain mercury and aluminum, genetically engineered vaccine , containing 1% GMO yeast , very unstable.

Diphtheria

Diphtheria bacterium nobody gets anymore and still we get vaccine against it.

10 % will die but only if they dont get penicillin.

Tetanus

It grows in the ground. It can not survive on oxygen. 89 % recover completly. Medical school told students that it is fatal and there is no recovery. It happens that tetanus occur in persons who are vaccinated.

Pertussis

16 % get pneumonia only 0.02 % of people infected die. You cough so much to break a rib or damaged brain.

Its a widespread and people gets vaccinated all the time.

From 1980 to 1995 recorded 92 deaths . More children die in a pool then of pertussis .

There is chancee of brain damage from vaccine, problems in speech.

Mums

Fever , harmless , full recovery , rarely cause that men become sterile.

German measles

Petty rash lasts about three days, 50 people do not know they have it , it only your nose slightly leak.

Vaccines : live virus , stock fetal serum, dead parts of aborted fetuses , artificial sugar . Associated with acute arthritis .

Mercury causes problems with vision , digestion , autism , speech and brain injury. According to Dr. Ayoub symptoms of mercury poisoning are the same symptoms of autism. Kirby and Olmsted have shown that populations that have not been vaccinated have autism. Amish are not vaccinated -3 cases of autism and all three cases have adopted children

Now I suggest you that you look any disease you mentioned on wiki under prognosis/recovery.

About conspiracy. It isnt just conspiracy. Its true crime. Against humanity. And history. Since you like history Im surprised that you didnt look deeper.

You see Kmt, historians, detectives, conspiracy theorists seek same goal. For example to find killer of JFK or Lincoln.

And I think many historians did found them.

As for water. You will see on wiki that almost all diseases you mentioned ( i will adress some later like Cholera etc.) are unharmful almost if people have water and healthy food. I think only Small pox is harmfull but I will adress to it in next post.

Even AIDS. Human body is able to defeat diseases if is healthy. People needs water and food. Not wonder drugs.

Here is something to you.

BTW, this guy got Nobel Prize. For discovering HIV.

As for flu. Thats so obvious that I dont think I need to response. Anyone who is interested in one day research can see truth.

Anyway just watch this video.

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Big Bad Voodoo

As for conspiracy. Its all over. You just need to open eyes.

Old books from the Canadian school system containing photos of oil resources in Canada, which were closed in 1920.Now its kept secret in order to hide supplies to rigged shortages need to set the price.

People think that immunisation is sign of our advance. Virola is latin word for small pox

Mughal army virolated their army in 18 century. In China even earlier in middle ages.

2 types: Virola minor 1-3% fatal rate mostly in Europe

Virola major 30-40% fatal rate-against this I dont complain.

We dont need science and scientific theories to have vaccination. Vaccination as practice predates overcentury our understanding how exactly works.

However what we have now is corruption and lysenkoism.

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Space Commander Travis

There really is no arguing rationally with anyone who can say " Many of those diseases you mentioned are almost not harmfull at all.", there really isn't.

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Space Commander Travis

About conspiracy. It isnt just conspiracy. Its true crime. Against humanity. And history. Since you like history Im surprised that you didnt look deeper.

Ok, if it is a true crime. Against humanity, how exactly? Are you trying to say that vaccination kills more people than the diseases they're supposed to prevent? Is that what you're saying? If you could explain nice & clearly please, thank you.

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Rlyeh

As for water. You will see on wiki that almost all diseases you mentioned ( i will adress some later like Cholera etc.) are unharmful almost if people have water and healthy food. I think only Small pox is harmfull but I will adress to it in next post.

Then obviously you didn't pay attention to the list you just posted, most are harmful. Yet you're here trying to spin vaccines are more harmful.
Even AIDS. Human body is able to defeat diseases if is healthy. People needs water and food. Not wonder drugs.

Here is something to you.

And yet the majority of untreated HIV/AIDS result in death from the disease.

Sorry, all you've done is skipped from hypothesis to fact.

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Lilly

Long ago people died much, much earlier than they do now. Medical science has cured/eradicated many diseases. This is a fact, an actual fact. The things we have and use on a daily basis that make our lives much, much better are a direct result of science. Electric power, automoblies, computers, refrigeration, airplanes, television...need I go on. Science works, it's not a 'magical thing' that does everything our little hearts desire, but it certainly works.

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Big Bad Voodoo

Long ago people died much, much earlier than they do now. Medical science has cured/eradicated many diseases. This is a fact, an actual fact. The things we have and use on a daily basis that make our lives much, much better are a direct result of science. Electric power, automoblies, computers, refrigeration, airplanes, television...need I go on. Science works, it's not a 'magical thing' that does everything our little hearts desire, but it certainly works.

In Catal Huyuk they found man who died as age cca 65.

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Lilly

I never said that some people didn't 'luck out' and live longer...but the normal lifespan in ancient times was much lower. The quality of life wasn't so 'hot' either. The hypothesis that science somehow doesn't work and makes life worse is complete and utter nonsense.

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Space Commander Travis

In Catal Huyuk they found man who died as age cca 65.

So one example of someone who, by the standards of the time, bucked the trend, somehow proves that we don't need modern medical science? We're in the world of Lewis Carroll again.

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Render

In Catal Huyuk they found man who died as age cca 65.

LOL

Are you proving the article right on purpose ?

And while science considers all available data to develop hypotheses, conspiracy theorists dismiss evidence that supports the "official" account, instead relying on small pieces of anomalous data.

this is just too easy...

Edited by Render
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Big Bad Voodoo

LOL

Are you proving the article right on purpose ?

this is just too easy...

Yes that was easy. I guess thats why you skip post 59. :tu:

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Big Bad Voodoo

I never said that some people didn't 'luck out' and live longer...but the normal lifespan in ancient times was much lower. The quality of life wasn't so 'hot' either. The hypothesis that science somehow doesn't work and makes life worse is complete and utter nonsense.

No one doubts that science made us live longer. In fact I think one brech deserve most credits. Economics. Then followed by Chemistry. But what we face in our time is corruption of science.

Ok, if it is a true crime. Against humanity, how exactly? Are you trying to say that vaccination kills more people than the diseases they're supposed to prevent? Is that what you're saying? If you could explain nice & clearly please, thank you.

Not just kill. Cripple. Made them sterile. Made them ill.

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Space Commander Travis

Not just kill. Cripple. Made them sterile. Made them ill.

And how many have been proved to have been done that to by vaccines? How much proof is there (other than from people like Alex Jones) that those things are attributable to vaccines? And how many has it been proved have been killed by the diseases that are vaccinated against? Only if the former figure gets anywhere near the latter would this argument be logical. Is it anywhere near? Or are the numbers microscopic in comparison? If they are, this argument makes no sense.

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Big Bad Voodoo

Well if Autism pandemic in USA is caused by vaccines as many scientists believe-look no further.

edit: also search USA experiments with vaccines on net. You will see that they have quite big history of experiments with vaccines.

Once they wanted to criple reproduction of humans. But Chatolic church stop them.

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo

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Big Bad Voodoo

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=256091

I hope your stocks will melt one day. Same as that diabolical Corparation.

When you do crime against humanity-humanity often response. And we will respond. Trust me on this.

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo

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Space Commander Travis

Well if Autism pandemic in USA is caused by vaccines as many scientists believe-look no further.

edit: also search USA experiments with vaccines on net. You will see that they have quite big history of experiments with vaccines.

Once they wanted to criple reproduction of humans. But Chatolic church stop them.

Pandemic? Why not look up the meaning of these words before using them? And these many scientists; you mean someone who was on Alex Jones once?

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Space Commander Travis

Anyway, I thought you thought that science wasn't to be trusted; now, because "many scientists" say there is an "autism pandemic", all of a sudden they're to be believed? The appeal to authority only works as long as you agree with what they're saying, and any evidence to the contrary should be ignored because scientists aren't to be trusted? :wacko:

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