Affordable Health Care registration - torture

[Raptor Witness]

I've never gotten what the haves, have against the have nots, in terms of healthcare. I tried to afford my own coverage, but the premiums became insane and the coverage sucked. The best I could hope for was a medical savings account, which isn't much if something serious happens.

Despite the problems with the roll out, I don't mind paying, so long as the plans are comparable to what federal employees are given now, generally. That's the criteria I'll be using to judge the program's fairness.

It's unacceptable in a free society for federal workers to be far better off healthcare-wise than the uninsured or uninsurable. That's a contraction which violates equal protection and common sense, big time. Sick people shouldn't have to rely on charity. Most just need a leg up, not a hand out when it comes to affordable healthcare. It's a matter of self respect, is why. This isn't welfare, this is freedom, and I predict that the rewards will be great.

At a time when many people hate this government, this is something to hang their hats on. It should have a similar effect that the civil rights movement had, and look where that led U.S. It led to self respect for millions, and to the first African American President. Nowhere on earth, except the U.S. and South Africa have we seen this occur. That's why it's particularly sweet that President Obama spearheaded this.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Raptor Witness

[+joc]

I've never gotten what the haves, have against the have nots, in terms of healthcare. I tried to afford my own coverage, but the premiums became insane and the coverage sucked. The best I could hope for was a medical savings account, which isn't much if something serious happens.

Despite the problems with the roll out, I don't mind paying, so long as the plans are comparable to what federal employees are given now, generally. That's the criteria I'll be using to judge the program's fairness.

It's unacceptable in a free society for federal workers to be far better off healthcare-wise than the uninsured or uninsurable. That's a contraction which violates equal protection and common sense, big time. Sick people shouldn't have to rely on charity. Most just need a leg up, not a hand out when it comes to affordable healthcare. It's a matter of self respect, is why. This isn't welfare, this is freedom, and I predict that the rewards will be great.

At a time when many people hate this government, this is something to hang their hats on. It should have a similar effect that the civil rights movement had, and look where that led U.S. It led to self respect for millions, and to the first African American President. Nowhere on earth, except the U.S. and South Africa have we seen this occur. That's why it's particularly sweet that President Obama spearheaded this.

So, let's 'think' this thing through okay? The Insurance Companies cannot tell you that you don't qualify for coverage if you have a pre-existing condition. So, they tell you, YES, we can cover you...for THIS MUCH!!! You MUST buy health insurance regardless of whether or not you can afford it. If you can't afford it...you will be forced to pay a tax, that you probably can't afford either. So, you cannot afford the Health Insurance Premiums that Blue Cross says you must pay for them to cover you pre-existing condition. So, you get fined. But you STILL don't have health insurance. The Government didn't mandate that Blue Cross GIVE you a premium...only that they could not deny you coverage. But you still have to be able to afford and pay for the Policy before you are covered.

So...you can't afford the premium, you can't afford the fine...you need health care and you still aren't covered by an insurance policy...you are SCREWED.

How then does 'affordable' healthcare in anyway equate to a good thing for those who have pre-existing conditions?

What will the end result be? They (the obamacrats) have already thought all this through...they have a really good idea how atrocious all this is going to play out...so..what will they do? They will do what Big Government always does. Big Government creates the problem, then Big Government creates a Solution for the problem that benefits Big Government.

What do you think the solution for the debaucle of Obamacare will be? Single Payer! And then my friend...EVERYONE is screwed.

The Real Solution to all of this is easy. Scrap Obamacare...open up free competition among the insurance companies...KEEP the 16 million new IRS agents and put them ALL to work cleaning up Medicare/Medicaid Fraud.

[ninjadude]

But you still have to be able to afford and pay for the Policy before you are covered.

So you want "free" healthcare/insurance? I'm not sure your teapublican buddies will agree with that. Nonetheless, there are subsidies available to make it more affordable to those that qualify. Have you researched this?

[Space Commander Travis]

So you want "free" healthcare/insurance? I'm not sure your teapublican buddies will agree with that. Nonetheless, there are subsidies available to make it more affordable to those that qualify. Have you researched this?

It does seem to get more and more complicated as it goes along. Was it designed to be this complicated, or did bits just keep being added as people thought of potential difficulties? Really, I think the Republicanists might be doing a favour if they force the whole thing to be scrapped and started again from a clean sheet of Paper.

[Leonardo]

So, let's 'think' this thing through okay? The Insurance Companies cannot tell you that you don't qualify for coverage if you have a pre-existing condition. So, they tell you, YES, we can cover you...for THIS MUCH!!! You MUST buy health insurance regardless of whether or not you can afford it. If you can't afford it...you will be forced to pay a tax, that you probably can't afford either. So, you cannot afford the Health Insurance Premiums that Blue Cross says you must pay for them to cover you pre-existing condition. So, you get fined. But you STILL don't have health insurance. The Government didn't mandate that Blue Cross GIVE you a premium...only that they could not deny you coverage. But you still have to be able to afford and pay for the Policy before you are covered.

This is not how the calculations for coverage under ACA is supposed to work. Under ACA, an insurer is not allowed to consider a pre-existing condition when quoting for the cost of insuring a customer. So, the premiums won't be sky-high if a customer has a pre-existing condition - because insurers are not allowed to consider those.

Now, whether this works in practice, I can't say. All I can vouch for is what I have read about how ACA is supposed to work. I might be wrong in my reading of it, though - I'd be happy to be corrected if that is the case.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Leonardo

[Frank Merton]

Well if they aren't allowed to ask about preexisting conditions, then this should work.

[Leonardo]

Well if they aren't allowed to ask about preexisting conditions, then this should work.

I don't know if they're not allowed to ask, but the premiums for coverage are not allowed to consider pre-existing conditions for factoring cost - according to what I have read.

[Frank Merton]

I don't know if they're not allowed to ask, but the premiums for coverage are not allowed to consider pre-existing conditions for factoring cost - according to what I have read.

If they can ask they can also manage to find a way to lose your file.

[Leonardo]

If they can ask they can also manage to find a way to lose your file.

That's why I said "the way it's supposed to work".

[+joc]

Well if they aren't allowed to ask about preexisting conditions, then this should work.

How is that any different than buying a house...and then it burns down (pre-existing condition)...and then you go to buy insurance and the company cannot ask you the condition of the house? That isn't insurance...it is something else and if that is the case...then one by one, the insurance companies will close their doors because they simply cannot afford to pay expenses for all those pre-existing conditions. So, when all of the insurance companies close their doors...what is left? Single Payer!

[ninjadude]

It does seem to get more and more complicated as it goes along.

no. It's more complicated as you understand it more. That's true. But it has not become more complicated that originally passed.

[Leonardo]

...then one by one, the insurance companies will close their doors because they simply cannot afford to pay expenses for all those pre-existing conditions. So, when all of the insurance companies close their doors...

First, the number of people with pre-existing conditions which would require treatment costing greater than the coverage their insurance provides will be miniscule relative to the number of people insured, so the extra money the insurers will make from all the new insured will cover a lot of the expense - if not all and more.

Second, it may well be this helps drive down the cost of some treatments. Whether that will lead to the healthcare providers lowering costs across the board, or increasing the cost of other services to offset it, I can't say.

[calaf]

I heard a web expert talking about that very point yesterday. All of the "million" coming to the site are just multiple attempts by the same people trying to get through.

And yet sites like Amazon handle exponentially more traffic day in and day out with very few problems.

Go Government!

Good point. If they sub contracted out to Amazon or even Ebay it wouldn't have cost $634 million-and would have worked!

[Gromdor]

Good point. If they sub contracted out to Amazon or even Ebay it wouldn't have cost $634 million-and would have worked!

Yeah, sub contracting it out to CGI Group Inc. doesn't seem to work so well.

[+joc]

First, the number of people with pre-existing conditions which would require treatment costing greater than the coverage their insurance provides will be miniscule relative to the number of people insured, so the extra money the insurers will make from all the new insured will cover a lot of the expense - if not all and more.

Second, it may well be this helps drive down the cost of some treatments. Whether that will lead to the healthcare providers lowering costs across the board, or increasing the cost of other services to offset it, I can't say.

No it won't. Your logic is proposterously lazy.

[Raptor Witness]

So far, my feelings are mixed. I'm apparently one of the very lucky individuals to have gotten as far as the application process via the web portal, but because I'm applying as part of a married household, seeking to file individually on my next tax return, the system may not allow me to complete the application process until Dec. 1st. That's pushing the envelope, since it takes up to three weeks to hear back, I'm told, and if I don't get coverage by Dec. 15th, my coverage won't begin on Jan. 1st.

The biggest problem by far is that no one at healthcare.gov, either by web portal, by chat, or by phone, knows anything about this Dec. 1st directive. They are all equally clueless, with no hope of an answer to the robotic message I've received at the end of my first application attempt.

I was advised by a local rep. by phone today to fill out a paper application, changing the application to "filing a future joint tax return," just to see what happens. In other words, let's experiment with my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

As The Church Lady on SNL used to say ... "Well isn't that special."

I have a feeling I already know where this little experiment leads, given that this will mean there are two applications in the system. However, my crystal ball can best be summed up, not by The Church Lady, but by the fellow below.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Raptor Witness

[CyberKen]

So far, my feelings are mixed. I'm apparently one of the very lucky individuals to have gotten as far as the application process via the web portal, but because I'm applying as part of a married household, seeking to file individually on my next tax return, the system may not allow me to complete the application process until Dec. 1st. That's pushing the envelope, since it takes up to three weeks to hear back, I'm told, and if I don't get coverage by Dec. 15th, my coverage won't begin on Jan. 1st.

The biggest problem by far is that no one at healthcare.gov, either by web portal, by chat, or by phone, knows anything about this Dec. 1st directive. They are all equally clueless, with no hope of an answer to the robotic message I've received at the end of my first application attempt.

I was advised by a local rep. by phone today to fill out a paper application, changing the application to "filing a future joint tax return," just to see what happens. In other words, let's experiment with my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

As The Church Lady on SNL used to say ... "Well isn't that special."

I have a feeling I already know where this little experiment leads, given that this will mean there are two applications in the system. However, my crystal ball can best be summed up, not by The Church Lady, but by the fellow below.

Equally Clueless? Well, now who could have seen THAT coming?

The U.S. Government doesn't belong in the healthcare system. Just wait for the iPAB Memos to arrive. "Take a pain pill ."

[Raptor Witness]

Update:

I finally was able to view a message dated Oct. 8th that was sent to me from the web portal, which said that my application was received and I'm "eligible" to obtain insurance from the Marketplace. However, I still can't view the plans. I'm on a very short leash on the web portal. All I can do is view my profile and some secret number that I've been assigned.

I tried chatting with a gal on the system tonight, but she blew me off as if I hadn't even asked a question. Instead of replying to me about how I can view the plans, she ... or some automated nonsense told me "Thank You, and goodbye." I guess she's got a quota to fill.

So I called in and talked to a guy for a long time, hoping to tease some real truth out of him. I told him that I could handle the truth, and he told me that I likely wouldn't be able to view the plans on the web portal until the "fix" is complete.

He also said that he couldn't see or verify my application, but he would have someone call me in a couple of days to see if my secret number is for real.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Raptor Witness

[Space Commander Travis]

And this is supposed to be such a ruthlessly efficient regime that is able to monitor what every one of its citizens has ever said to anyone on the phone or the Inter net. Perhaps it's just a front, to camouflage the real ruthless efficiency behind a smokescreen of bumbling? Or perhaps they want us to think that they are really secretly ruthlessly efficient, but the bumbling is actually the truth?

[Frank Merton]

It's called "muddling through" and unfortunately it works, although not always as planned.

[Raptor Witness]

Update:

I did not receive the call I was supposed to get within 48 hours.

I'm not surprised, I was giving it less than a 50-50 chance.

It does make me sad though. I really had hoped they could at least tell me if they got my application Three weeks ago.

This is reportedly going to be one of the big problems with the web portal. People are going to think that they've applied for coverage, when they really haven't.

I suspect that we will find out later the secret numbers are just bogus Decoration.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Raptor Witness

[+joc]

Update:

I did not receive the call I was supposed to get within 48 hours.

I'm not surprised, I was giving it less than a 50-50 chance.

It does make me sad though. I really had hoped they could at least tell me if they got my application Three weeks ago.

This is reportedly going to be one of the big problems with the web portal. People are going to think that they've applied for coverage, when they really haven't.

I suspect that we will find out later the secret numbers are just bogus Decoration.

I suspect that we will find out later that the entire Law is just bogus Decoration...and might I pose the question: What is decoration anyway? ...and might I answer my own question? ...thank you...I will...

Decoration is what makes a brown, cardboard box look 'attractive'. Another way of saying that is that, it disguises the box...but, what is IN the box? That is the question...may I answer that one as well? Single Payer! That is the death nail to America.

You see my friends, America can not be destroyed militarily. Only from within. Knowing that...the Soviets have worked for decades on that one thing. And now...they are about to succeed. Hey! I don't expect all you people to know any of this. Did it ever occur to any of you that perhaps that is why I am here? To tell you the truth about what is going on in this world?

Wake up America! Wake up Canada! Wake up Vietnam! Someone is at your door knocking....

...it's Moscow!

[Space Commander Travis]

I suspect that we will find out later that the entire Law is just bogus Decoration...and might I pose the question: What is decoration anyway? ...and might I answer my own question? ...thank you...I will...

Decoration is what makes a brown, cardboard box look 'attractive'. Another way of saying that is that, it disguises the box...but, what is IN the box? That is the question...may I answer that one as well? Single Payer! That is the death nail to America.

You see my friends, America can not be destroyed militarily. Only from within. Knowing that...the Soviets have worked for decades on that one thing. And now...they are about to succeed. Hey! I don't expect all you people to know any of this. Did it ever occur to any of you that perhaps that is why I am here? To tell you the truth about what is going on in this world?

Wake up America! Wake up Canada! Wake up Vietnam! Someone is at your door knocking....

...it's Moscow!

I was going to ask what on earth you're talking about, but I suppose the wouldn't be much likelihood of getting a comprehensible response.

So this is all a Commie plot to destroy America, once again, then, is it, by imposing an inept Government?

[+joc]

I was going to ask what on earth you're talking about, but I suppose the wouldn't be much likelihood of getting a comprehensible response.

So this is all a Commie plot to destroy America, once again, then, is it, by imposing an inept Government?

Colonel,

Actually, there is a remarkable likelihood of getting a comprehensible response. The question then is, what is the likely hood of it being swept under the carpet without so much as a fair hearing of thought process?

These are my thoughts. You won't really hear this anywhere else, but that doesn't mean it is not legitimate...it just may mean I am one of the few who get it.

In a nutshell...here it is:

Most people believe Russia is no longer a world player, no longer a super power, that we defeated the Soviet Union in the Cold War and that was that, end of story...but wait...that isn't the end of the story...it is only the beginning of a new story.

The Soviets found themselves in a unique position. Ronald Reagan's America was outspending them by a large degree...at the same time threatening them with new technology...missle defense system. At the same time thundering, Tear Down That Wall. And they did tear down that wall...Gorbochav basically told the people they were free...and the people responded by trashing the KGB headquarters. An interesting new developed talked about by no one but me...the KGB did not 'go away'...the KGB just re-tooled. The difference was, the USA no longer had an ear...i.e. listening devices...to eavesdrop on what the KGB was plotting next.

Consider that Communism isn't a person or place...it is a thing...an ideology. Russia began planting the seeds of that ideology many decades ago. They planted them here, they planted them all over the world. Khrushchev said, “You Americans are so gullible. No, you won’t accept communism outright; but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of Socialism until you will finally wake up and find that you already have communism. We won’t have to fight you; we will so weaken your economy until you fall like overripe fruit into our hands.”

Chew on that for awhile. Get back with me, please.

Hint: whenever you hear Green...think Red...think Moscow...this is where the Green Movement started...when the Wall fell...the Hardline Communists scurried out of sight like cockroaches...they didn't leave...they were right there under the sink the whole time...

The Deal: Here it is. Put on your Soviet thinking cap please: America defeated us because of their Economy driven by Capitalism. We must destroy Capitalism. How? Kill their energy. Literally, kill thier energy. Don't let them drill for oil...etc.

Finally, Obama has landed. Did this guy who has no experience really in anything other than 'community organizing' really appear out of nowhere? His mentor was Saul Alinsky.

Rules for Radicals

Obama learned his lesson well. I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday." --Letter from L. DAVID ALINSKY

[F3SS]

^^^ Youre making me excited for season 2 of 'The Americans'.