England's young people near bottom of scale

[Setton]

Here in Oz, Private Schools are held exactly to the same syllabus/curriculum as the state schools. Then they have to meet the requirements of their own board/supervisory committee (in the Catholic School I work at's case - having an RE syllabus). At the Independent school I work at, we're INDIVIDUALLY answerable to the parents and we create individual syllabi for each student.

That sounds like a sensible and effective system. No wonder we don't have it here.

[skookum]

Private schools aren't required to meet the same standards as state schools. They are each very individual so can't really be used as an indictment of education in general.

Do you mind if I ask when this was and where in the country? When I was at school (not that long ago) this lack of marking was common but there's been a real push recently to make sure teachers fulfill their real role as teachers not childminders. Certainly here and now in Co Durham, a teacher marking so little would be out in no time. If I took that approach on my placements or in my NQT year, I'd be thrown off the course.

Like I said, there are still some relics of the old style of teaching and I guess some will slip through the net. But rest assured the teachers who qualified in the last 5 years or so are nothing like them.

This is just speculation now but, given the shortage of teachers, authorities might be reluctant to remove even poor teachers if they don't think they can find someone better to fill the gap.

UK, West Sussex in three different towns. The last problem happened this year.

The latest insult from the older child's school was a letter today. The school messed up entering children for their GCSE English so they have only just realized they will have to take an assessment by the 5th November. So the letter has asked for the parents to arrange a mock exam via the schools Moodle site and sit an old paper under exam conditions at home. I was aware of the changes in the GCSE examination and brought it to their attention over six months ago. Your right I was snubbed as being from the private sector and not being of the high standards a state schools adhere too. Difference is the private school was prepared for the changes a year ago and the state school is now in a panic.

Edited October 12, 2013 by skookum

[Setton]

UK, West Sussex in three different towns. The last problem happened this year.

The latest insult from the older child's school was a letter today. The school messed up entering children for their GCSE English so they have only just realized they will have to take an assessment by the 5th November. So the letter has asked for the parents to arrange a mock exam via the schools Moodle site and sit an old paper under exam conditions at home. I was aware of the changes in the GCSE examination and brought it to their attention over six months ago. Your right I was snubbed as being from the private sector and not being of the high standards a state schools adhere too. Difference is the private school was prepared for the changes a year ago and the state school is now in a panic.

Then all I can say is, perhaps you'd be better off in a part of the country with higher standards. That sort of thing doesn't really happen here.

As an aside, the grammatical mistakes in your post do make me smile a bit. Not the same standards indeed...

[Frank Merton]

I would not worry overmuch about test results showing the average Brit or American being lower than the average someone else. The English speaking cultures have always done a bad job of educating the masses. What is more important is how good a job is done in educating the "elite" (the smart hard workers). These are the ones who will make a difference in the future. The rest will just wag the tail.

[skookum]

Then all I can say is, perhaps you'd be better off in a part of the country with higher standards. That sort of thing doesn't really happen here.

As an aside, the grammatical mistakes in your post do make me smile a bit. Not the same standards indeed...

I am a dyslexic ICT teacher. Many years ago it was decided that students were not graded on spelling and grammar in exams other than English so your point is?

Obviously equal opportunities doesn't exist in state education, you are just written off.

For the record I never chose a career in teaching. I was actually asked to train to become one after working as an IT technician in a school (state school) and apparently showing the correct flair, delivery and knowledge.

I never thought it would have been possible because of people making wise cracks like above.

Edited October 12, 2013 by skookum

[Setton]

I am a dyslexic ICT teacher. Many years ago it was decided that students were not graded on spelling and grammar in exams other than English so your point is?

My point is that, while students are not graded on spelling and grammar, teachers (at least in state schools) are expected to meet a certain standard.

I'll admit, I'm no expert in dyslexia but I'm curious how it would lead to the your/you're confusion. One being a contraction of you are and the other a word in its own right.

Obviously equal opportunities doesn't exist in state education, you are just written off.

The idea of being lectured on equal opportunities by someone who works in a school that only accepts children whose parents have enough money is, frankly, laughable.

For the record I never chose a career in teaching. I was actually asked to train to become one after working as an IT technician in a school (state school) and apparently showing the correct flair, delivery and knowledge.

I never thought it would have been possible because of people making wise cracks like above.

Uhuh... Did IT technicians regularly deliver lessons in that school?

[skookum]

My point is that, while students are not graded on spelling and grammar, teachers (at least in state schools) are expected to meet a certain standard.

I'll admit, I'm no expert in dyslexia but I'm curious how it would lead to the your/you're confusion. One being a contraction of you are and the other a word in its own right.

The idea of being lectured on equal opportunities by someone who works in a school that only accepts children whose parents have enough money is, frankly, laughable.

Uhuh... Did IT technicians regularly deliver lessons in that school?

IT Technicians helped students as we were frequently in the classrooms when lessons were in progress. We often knew far more about the subject than the teacher.

I was in private education until middle school when my father died and my mother could no longer afford the tuition fees. I had excelled in reading and writing in private school despite my disability due to the support given. The state middle school refused to accept the level I had achieved that was in my records without any assessment. I was told to pick out which reading book which I was able to do from their collection which was promptly laughed off. The problem was I was reading material that the 4th year students had just started despite being dyslexic. I was then pushed back to reading baby books with pictures replacing complex words. Reading is not an issue for me it is writing. I fell far behind why I was forced to work through baby books that were ridiculous and I could even spell the words the pictures replaced.

I was kept so far behind that in high school my mother and I were told I would never be able to do anything realistically other than manual labour. I was put on work experience to be a car mechanic and told I probably wouldn't have the ability to pass the college exams for that as a career.

I left school and paid privately to do exams I was never put in for and past with straight A's. Then I did my A levels and a degree in computer science. I did the manual labour packing boxes in a warehouse to pay for private education.

Things remain the same today. My son appeared to have the same problem and has been written off by a school in Surrey as dyslexic. I have removed him from the school and although I can't really afford it entered him into private education. Within a year he is up to the level of the other children, he is not dyslexic but was just a poor reader. The state school told me he would probably need to attend a special needs school in the future. I wasn't going to let him suffer what I had too.

Edited October 12, 2013 by skookum

[stevewinn]

excellent post Skookum. so many good points and experiences expressed - in education and life, showing continuous effort is the key to unlocking all our potentials.

Edited October 12, 2013 by stevewinn

[skookum]

excellent post Skookum. so many good points and experiences expressed - in education and life, showing continuous effort is the key to unlocking all our potentials.

It is, but the sad truth of today is just to label somebody then pass the buck. When do you hear nowadays of a poor reader or anyone poor of anything. They are just labeled and put to one side. Even with my poor writing skills I can still write algorithm's, do binary mathematics and write computer programs to a higher standard than any ICT teacher I have ever met. All this from a box packer from a make up company.

Edited October 12, 2013 by skookum

[skookum]

It is, but the sad truth of today is just to label somebody then pass the buck. When do you hear nowadays of a poor reader or anyone poor of anything. They are just labeled and put to one side. Even with my poor writing skills I can still write algorithm's, do binary mathematics and write computer programs to a higher standard than any ICT teacher I have ever met. All this from a box packer from a make up company.

State education still only caters for the ones who 'can' naturally. I have been and now concentrate on the ones who have been told they 'can not'. As a result I earn less than 30k a year to pick up the pieces of youngsters and adults told they can't.

I have no decent pension, no union, no concrete job. But I know what I give is what I could have done with and is worth every second of my working time.

[keithisco]

Skookum... you have my respect. You are just the kind of teacher that is needed. This mad drive to ensure that all teachers hold a University Degree is absolute nonsense IMO. Holding the attention of a class is not something that can be taught, either you can do it, or you cannot.

My daughter attends a private British College here in Spain, and half of her teachers are not "qualified" in accordance with UK Requirements. She, and her friends in the same year, all pased a minimum of 5 GCSE´s (most at A* grade) 2 year earlier than their UK counterparts.

This tells me that the focus in UK has shifted from teaching as a true vocation, to teaching to meet Govt targets.

This put me in mind of an old saying "Those who CAN, do, those who CAN´T, teach" . So here, in the Private Sector in Spain the two roles are completely reversed, "Those who CAN, teach, those who CAN'T take a Govt Job".... and the Teaching job pays more as well!

Edited October 14, 2013 by keithisco

[Setton]

IT Technicians helped students as we were frequently in the classrooms when lessons were in progress. We often knew far more about the subject than the teacher.

University lecturers know a lot more about maths than a primary school teacher. Doesn't mean they can teach it to 5 year olds.

I was in private education until middle school when my father died and my mother could no longer afford the tuition fees. I had excelled in reading and writing in private school despite my disability due to the support given. The state middle school refused to accept the level I had achieved that was in my records without any assessment. I was told to pick out which reading book which I was able to do from their collection which was promptly laughed off. The problem was I was reading material that the 4th year students had just started despite being dyslexic. I was then pushed back to reading baby books with pictures replacing complex words. Reading is not an issue for me it is writing. I fell far behind why I was forced to work through baby books that were ridiculous and I could even spell the words the pictures replaced.

I was kept so far behind that in high school my mother and I were told I would never be able to do anything realistically other than manual labour. I was put on work experience to be a car mechanic and told I probably wouldn't have the ability to pass the college exams for that as a career.

I left school and paid privately to do exams I was never put in for and past with straight A's. Then I did my A levels and a degree in computer science. I did the manual labour packing boxes in a warehouse to pay for private education.

As I said, old teachers were poor. The new ones are good.

Things remain the same today. My son appeared to have the same problem and has been written off by a school in Surrey as dyslexic. I have removed him from the school and although I can't really afford it entered him into private education. Within a year he is up to the level of the other children, he is not dyslexic but was just a poor reader. The state school told me he would probably need to attend a special needs school in the future. I wasn't going to let him suffer what I had too.

One case does not constitute a rule. Having worked in several schools, I can say that this is not the case in County Durham.

But it's plain you've already made up your mind that state teachers are worthless and idle. I shan't waste any more time arguing with someone like you.

This put me in mind of an old saying "Those who CAN, do, those who CAN´T, teach" . So here, in the Private Sector in Spain the two roles are completely reversed, "Those who CAN, teach, those who CAN'T take a Govt Job".... and the Teaching job pays more as well!

That was a very fitting saying a few decades ago. Now, the more common one is, "Those that CAN, do, those that UNDERSTAND, teach."

Better pay would be nice. I don't know many other jobs where you work a 13 hour day, 6/7 days a week and get paid so little. Although now it's performance related, that may improve.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Setton

[SilentHunter]

Which is why Education should not be a ******* political football and the only place were the government can "make an immediate mark" by changing the entire ******* syllabus every time a new party comes into power.

I blame it on the liberals, Sky TV, computer games and the X-Factor.

Back in my day I'd have gotten the cane off my teachers for mis-behaving in school and my parents would have grounded me for performing badly in tests. There were just 4 tv channels, computer games were the past-time of just the nerds and there was no X-Factor to obsess over. With little 'entertainment available' there was nothing to do besides actually doing my homework and taking an interest, yes actually taking an interest, in my studies.

With all that spare time at hand people used to get better results. Now its all PS3s and mobile phones. I think 13-16 year olds are also more interested in their sex lives instead of their futures which is just shocking. Boy has this country degenerated.

[SilentHunter]

I do like the way these Economic Thinktanks only ever think of people in terms of their usefulness as units of production for the Economy. "In a stark assessment of the success and failure of the 720 million-strong adult workforce across the wealthier economies" That's the only value that's ever put on people, so is it any wonder that people are tempted to think " :blush: :blush: it, why the hell should I bother just so that the Government can boast about how their Economy is "Growing" and so their policies are a Success."

Sounds like your government needs a human resources department. People are not robots, units or figures but human beings.