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granpa

Atlantis: what did Plato get wrong?

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Mario Dantas
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Quaentum

@Mario Dantas,

Since you have your own threads detailing your own theories, why are you trying to derail this thread?

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Quaentum

I cant force people to not post but as op I believe that I am allowed to determine the topic

As kmt_sesh said you do have that right and with this sentence in your first post you indicated who this topic was aimed at:

for the sake of this thread lets assume that atlantis is a real place and not just imaginary.

Those who believe in the existence of Atlantis wouldn't have to make that assumption because of their belief. It is only the non-believers that have to make that assumption. Whether it was intentional or not you did gear this topic towards non-believers.

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Harte

Lets face it Atlantis was most likey a real place based on rich city that came to ruin that Solon spoke of. It was never said Atlantis was a advanced empire but a very rich one and Solon in all his poems favored virture over riches.

Really?

You've read much Solon, have you?

Harte

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Van Gorp

@Mario Dantas,

Since you have your own threads detailing your own theories, why are you trying to derail this thread?

i see his Posts as telling: "Plato got the sinking wrong, it could have meant just disappearing, going further into the ocean".

my interpretation though

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Mario Dantas

@Mario Dantas,

Since you have your own threads detailing your own theories, why are you trying to derail this thread?

Quaentum,

I will not post here any more "derailing" texts or images, satisfied? good!

Regards,

Mario Dantas

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granpa

As kmt_sesh said you do have that right and with this sentence in your first post you indicated who this topic was aimed at:

Those who believe in the existence of Atlantis wouldn't have to make that assumption because of their belief. It is only the non-believers that have to make that assumption. Whether it was intentional or not you did gear this topic towards non-believers.

As I already pointed out, that doesnt make any sense

why would I ask others to pretend that atlantis is real

and then ask them what parts they believe are accurate and which parts they think are made up?

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cormac mac airt

As I already pointed out, that doesnt make any sense

why would I ask others to pretend that atlantis is real

and then ask them what parts they believe are accurate and which parts they think are made up?

You did exactly that in your OP:

for the sake of this thread lets assume that atlantis is a real place and not just imaginary.

if every word of platos account is taken literally then no such island can possibly exist so something that he wrote has to be wrong.

my question is: what part do you think plato got wrong and why did he get it wrong?

If it was an error then it was one on your part. Take responsibility for it and move on.

cormac

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granpa

Assuming Atlantis was real is how we've ended up with the mess we now have to begin with.

What did Plato get wrong? Easy, he assumed people were smart enough to know what an allegory is. His mistake since many apparently can't tell the difference between an allegory and reality.

cormac

yes you cant assume that people have enough common sense to understand what you are saying unless you spell everything out.

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docyabut2

Really?

You've read much Solon, have you?

Harte

The man whose riches satisfy his greed

The man whose riches satisfy his greed

Is not more rich for all those heaps and hoards

Than some poor man who has enough to feed

And clothe his corpse with such as God affords.

I have no use for men who steal and cheat;

The fruit of evil poisons those who eat.

Some wicked men are rich, some good men poor,

But I would rather trust in what's secure;

Our virtue sticks with us and makes us strong,

But money changes owners all day long.

Solon

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Harte

That's "...all his poems..."?

Harte

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Abramelin

I love it.

a bunch of grown men dancing around the issue because they are afraid to answer the question

You have no answer as well. Ever thought of that one?

You 'dance' as much as we all do.

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Quaentum

As I already pointed out, that doesnt make any sense

why would I ask others to pretend that atlantis is real

and then ask them what parts they believe are accurate and which parts they think are made up?

To be able to answer your question one must ignore the evidences that show that Atlantis is not real and further one must suspend critical thought where Atlantis is concerned. If one does not do both then the answer remains that the evidences, be they geological or cultural or other do not support Atlantis' existence. Once one has ignored the evidences and suspended critical thought then all one is left with is pretend.

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Quaentum

I love it.

a bunch of grown men dancing around the issue because they are afraid to answer the question

The question has been answered. It is you who do not like the answers you received because they are not what you wanted to hear.

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DieChecker

As I already pointed out, that doesnt make any sense

why would I ask others to pretend that atlantis is real

and then ask them what parts they believe are accurate and which parts they think are made up?

That is exactly what I thought you were asking also.

There is no dancing around the question. I"m not even sure anyone understands your question. Every time someone answers, you say that is not what you are asking for.

Edited by DieChecker

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Derek Cunningham

Plato did not get much wrong.....but he did make one big mistake

The Greek Gods were not the stars.....or at least they weren't originally

They however did make the mistake of taken an astronomical map of earth and placed it by mistake up into the sky.....Thus confusing us ever since.

All the mistakes made by various historians are discussed in the book Khyung The Stone Age Astronaut.

Khyung is the mythical Tibetan Bird that traveled into space. It is the Myths surrounding Khyung that were the basis for Plato's dialogues surrounding Atlantis.

https://www.createspace.com/4084284

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cormac mac airt

Plato did not get much wrong.....but he did make one big mistake

The Greek Gods were not the stars.....or at least they weren't originally

They however did make the mistake of taken an astronomical map of earth and placed it by mistake up into the sky.....Thus confusing us ever since.

All the mistakes made by various historians are discussed in the book Khyung The Stone Age Astronaut.

Khyung is the mythical Tibetan Bird that traveled into space. It is the Myths surrounding Khyung that were the basis for Plato's dialogues surrounding Atlantis.

https://www.createspace.com/4084284

If there is something from this book you'd like to discuss that would be helpful but I don't think the MOD's are going to appreciate spamming a book, whether it's yours or someone elses.

cormac

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Derek Cunningham

Plato was brilliant....but he was working form older texts that he could not quite understand.

If you read the texts surrounding Khyung you will quickly realize that there exists elements in the text that are identical in concept to those put forward by Plato. Thus it seems that Plato's work was based on reports he obtained from someone who had visited the region.

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kmt_sesh

If there is something from this book you'd like to discuss that would be helpful but I don't think the MOD's are going to appreciate spamming a book, whether it's yours or someone elses.

cormac

Noted and observed, as well as reported. We'll look into this.

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Derek Cunningham

The book discusses errors in Plato's interpretations, and explains areas that previous researchers have found enigmatic.

If you want to discuss Plato, you need to know what Plato's text means and what were the sources for his dialogues.

Otherwise we can just discuss aliens all day and wonder whether they come from the dog star or not.

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Harte

Can you list Plato's sources and why you believe them to be so?

Harte

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jaylemurph

That's "...all his poems..."?

Harte

Oddly enough, just last night I was reading Aristotle's Constitution of the Athenians, which features several of the surviving fragments of Solon's work. I say fragments because no complete poem survives, and later Greeks (and other people) were happy to attribute material to him that may have had nothing to do with him.

(The Constitution, by the way, is one of the most complete records of Solon's political career, and oddly enough it doesn't even mention him going to Egypt AT ALL when he ran away from Athens rather then deal with people complaining about his sweeping reforms of Athenian politics, let alone him gleaning alleged ancient wisdom from priests there. But to know that would involve setting down to read a rather boring and fragmentary account of Athenian political life, so I can see why Atlantidiots might choose to ignore it.)

--Jaylemurph

EDIT: Spelling

Edited by jaylemurph
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kmt_sesh

...so I can see why Atlantidiots might choose to ignore it.

--Jaylemurph

Why, jay, did you just coin a new word? :lol:

Edited by kmt_sesh

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The Puzzler

Why, jay, did you just coin a new word? :lol:

Seems so and a very condescending word at that...

For those 'Atlantidiots' who may wish to familiarise themselves with the aforementioned Constitution of the Athenians, here it is: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/aristotle-athcon.txt

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The Puzzler

Jay may wish to read Plutarch's Solon on which he will find this: (inverted commas used by Plutarch indicating Solon's own words)

"In great affairs to satisfy all sides," as an excuse for travelling, bought a trading vessel, and, having leave for ten years' absence, departed, hoping that by that time his laws would have become familiar.

His first voyage was for Egypt, and he lived, as he himself says-

"Near Nilus' mouth, by fair Canopus' shore,"

http://classics.mit....arch/solon.html

Edited by The Puzzler

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