CNN Joins Tea Party: Delay ACA for 1 Year !

[CyberKen]

Which regulations have passed through a Republican controlled house which do that, exactly?

When Pelosi controlled the House, ObamaCare created a NEW Group of small businesses known as " The 49ers"

Stay under 50 employees and you get a pass.

Would YOU like to read this stack of regulations? see photo below:

[RavenHawk]

It's obvious that one of us doesn't.

That is very obvious, since you never answered the question. I am looking at the problem as an issue of fiscal responsibility. You see it as status quo. Status quo is not how things get done. It just draws it out further.

I don't recall the Senate threatening to stop the government functioning if the SNAP benefits weren't extended. Perhaps you could provide a link?

There should have never been a SNAP program supported by the government. That and other Entitlement programs are what are threatening the government from functioning.

Edited October 28, 2013 by RavenHawk

[Tiggs]

That is very obvious, since you never answered the question.

Get used to disappointment.

Would YOU like to read this stack of regulations? see photo below:

If only there was a simple one page summary for small businesses.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Tiggs

[Kowalski]

[RavenHawk]

Get used to disappointment.

OK –

[Tiggs]

OK

Exactly.

Oh, good. Far right wing cartoon propaganda. That's exactly what this thread needs.

[RavenHawk]

Exactly.

Exactly what!? You don’t understand. A non answer is still an answer. And it speaks loudly.

Oh, good. Far right wing cartoon propaganda. That's exactly what this thread needs.

I don’t see anything far right about it. But cartoon humorists usually put a subject into perspective a lot better than “plain talk”.

[Kowalski]

Oh, good. Far right wing cartoon propaganda. That's exactly what this thread needs.

I fail to see what right/left paradigms have to do with a horrible economic policy.....

[Tiggs]

Exactly what!? You don't understand. A non answer is still an answer. And it speaks loudly.

Quite frankly - I have better things to do with my time than attempt to engage in reasonable debate with an ideologue.

Thus - If you're expecting a discussion with me - expect disappointment.

[Tiggs]

I fail to see what right/left paradigms have to do with a horrible economic policy.....

If you're unaware of the basic split between economists into essentially left and right wing camps - Saltwater vs Freshwater - then I'm not entirely sure what to tell you.

[RavenHawk]

Quite frankly - I have better things to do with my time than attempt to engage in reasonable debate with an ideologue.

We are all ideologues. We all support one mindset or another. You’re just as much an ideologue as anyone else and to deny it is being disingenuous. I already knew I wasn’t going to get a reasonable debate with you by your reaction to my question and even the whole post.

Thus - If you're expecting a discussion with me - expect disappointment.

I don’t expect a discussion with your type. I just like to watch as the cockroaches scurry about when I disturb their comfort zone. I could care less what I get from you. I will enjoy either.

[Tiggs]

We are all ideologues. We all support one mindset or another. You're just as much an ideologue as anyone else and to deny it is being disingenuous. I already knew I wasn't going to get a reasonable debate with you by your reaction to my question and even the whole post.

The difference, I think you'll find between us, is that I'm willing to acknowledge when I'm incorrect and change my position.

You - not so much.

I don't expect a discussion with your type. I just like to watch as the cockroaches scurry about when I disturb their comfort zone. I could care less what I get from you. I will enjoy either.

You think that calling me a cockroach makes you look less like an extremist, do you?

[RavenHawk]

The difference, I think you'll find between us, is that I'm willing to acknowledge when I'm incorrect and change my position.

You - not so much.

Really? And what evidence do you have of that? When I’m wrong and it’s not just *your* opinion, I correct my thinking. The best litmus test for you is that if I change my thinking, then you were right.

You think that calling me a cockroach makes you look less like an extremist, do you?

My apologies, I was not calling you a cockroach. I was likening your deflection to cockroaches when you lift a man-hole cover and the sun disagrees with their sensibilities

[Tiggs]

Really? And what evidence do you have of that?

Your own words. You could care less what you get from me, apparently. You're not here for discussion with my type.

My apologies, I was not calling you a cockroach.

I don't believe you for a nanosecond.

[+joc]

My limit is the poverty line.

These are the raw figures:

Year. Income. Spending. Income - Spending aka Deficit
2000 2,025,191 1,788,950 236,241
2001 1,991,082 1,862,846 128,236
2002 1,853,136 2,010,894 -157,758
2003 1,782,314 2,159,899 -377,585
2004 1,880,114 2,292,841 -412,727
2005 2,153,611 2,471,957 -318,346
2006 2,406,869 2,655,050 -248,181
2007 2,567,985 2,728,686 -160,701
2008 2,523,991 2,982,544 -458,553
2009 2,104,989 3,517,677 -1,412,688
2010 2,162,706 3,457,079 -1,294,373
2011 2,303,466 3,603,059 -1,299,593
2012 2,450,164 3,537,127 -1,086,963
2013e. 2,712,045 3,684,947 -972,902
2014e. 3,033,618 3,777,807 -744,189
2015e. 3,331,685 3,908,157 -576,472
2016e. 3,561,451 4,089,836 -528,385
2017e. 3,760,542 4,247,448 -486,906
2018e. 3,973,974 4,449,240 -475,266

The budgets are set a year in advance. Clinton's budgets are 2000-2001, Bush's budget are 2002-2009, Obama's budgets are 2010 onwards.

First things first. You'll notice income falling off a cliff in 2009. You'll also notice that spending has actually been fairly flat ever since.

In real terms, however - taking inflation and population growth into account, spending per person has actually declined.

I'm really not. I totally understand the principle of positive thinking, and the idea that you won't achieve anything if you just give up.

What I'm telling you is that sometimes positive thinking isn't enough to overcome the physical restrictions of current reality. No-one is going to be levitating the Pentagon, any time soon. There's a definite lack of amputees growing back limbs via the power of positive thought, also.

In terms of everyone becoming wealthy - it's currently structurally impossible, due to limited resources - and that if resources weren't limited, then the entire concept of money would be more or less moot, anyway.

Who said anything about Everyone becoming wealthy? Anyway, you are wrong...again. Limited resources? Which ones? BigMacs? Oil? What I'm talking about is business...there is nothing limited about it.

But about your chart...is that Gov spending or People Spending? And...another thing you are wrong about...Obama hasn't had a budget...not one...the democrats haven't passed a budget since he crawled out from under his brother's hut in Kenya.

[Tiggs]

Who said anything about Everyone becoming wealthy? Anyway, you are wrong...again. Limited resources? Which ones? BigMacs? Oil? What I'm talking about is business...there is nothing limited about it.

Skipping the obvious natural resources for a moment - If everyone has their own business - where are the employees going to come from?

But about your chart...is that Gov spending or People Spending? And...another thing you are wrong about...Obama hasn't had a budget...not one...the democrats haven't passed a budget since he crawled out from under his brother's hut in Kenya.

Gov spending. Technically, the President produces a budget every year, regardless if it's possible to pass one through Congress or not. While it's true that funding has mostly been a series of continuing resolutions, the current budget has passed the Democratic majority Senate, and is waiting for the Republican majority House to come to conference, who refused to discuss it, citing irreconcilable differences - which is the actual reason that no budgets have been able to pass.

[Frank Merton]

I'm not sure what role exactly the budget plays in American government. Spending seems to go on without one legally passed, and each item of spending must be approved separately (actually twice -- once the authorization and again the actual spending).

The amount of misinformation (disinformation?) the members of the political right on this board seem to have about the nature of the deficit vs. the national debt is astonishing. They seem to have them confused and are screaming about deficit spending at a time when the deficit has been drastically reduced. The economy would expand much faster and the debt thereby reduced much more effectively if a somewhat larger deficit were being run right now so as to stimulate growth.

It's hard for a country to save its way out of an excessive national debt (and it has not been shown that the American one is excessive anyway). Trying to do so generates a recession and even worse debt. Ronald Reagan had the right idea by reducing taxes, increasing spending, and growing out of the debt. Obama has part of it right but is too oriented toward getting political play with the left by increasing taxes.

[Tiggs]

It's hard for a country to save its way out of an excessive national debt (and it has not been shown that the American one is excessive anyway). Trying to do so generates a recession and even worse debt. Ronald Reagan had the right idea by reducing taxes, increasing spending, and growing out of the debt. Obama has part of it right but is too oriented toward getting political play with the left by increasing taxes.

^^ This.

All that raising taxes during an economic slowdown will do is slow down the recovery.

[RavenHawk]

Your own words. You could care less what you get from me, apparently. You're not here for discussion with my type.

Again you got it wrong. Just because I really don’t care what you spout, I am still looking for a rational, meaningful discussion. That you are spending (wasting) your time quibbling instead of showing how I am wrong indicates that you can’t and are full of it.

I don't believe you for a nanosecond.

It doesn’t really matter.

[Yamato]

Gentlemen please....there are chainsaws and machetes available up on the walls to help hurry this along.

This topic is so watered down, kenny. Delay ACA by 1 year? Pffft...really?

[Tiggs]

Again you got it wrong. Just because I really don't care what you spout, I am still looking for a rational, meaningful discussion. That you are spending (wasting) your time quibbling instead of showing how I am wrong indicates that you can’t and are full of it.

You came looking for a rational meaningful discussion with someone that you recently claimed has no intelligence?

Get used to disappointment.

It doesn't really matter.

Not to you, obviously.

[+joc]

Skipping the obvious natural resources for a moment - If everyone has their own business - where are the employees going to come from?

Gov spending. Technically, the President produces a budget every year, regardless if it's possible to pass one through Congress or not. While it's true that funding has mostly been a series of continuing resolutions, the current budget has passed the Democratic majority Senate, and is waiting for the Republican majority House to come to conference, who refused to discuss it, citing irreconcilable differences - which is the actual reason that no budgets have been able to pass.

Yeah, that's like my wife coming to me with the 'budget'...Okay honey, we are buying a boat, a new house, several diamond rings, a ski trip, a trip to Paris, 4 new cars, and a Lear Jet. And how do you expect me to pay for all of that dear? Well, sweetheart, you need to take on another job, plus, we are going to make all our neighbors chip in for the goods as well. I see darling, but you have to understand that is not going to happen...we are not going to buy all that stuff! Okay, your right honey, forget the ski trip....

That isn't a budget Tiggs! A budget is this...we make x amount of dollars per year...and we spend no more than x amount.

Really, honestly...Washington DC and budget??? Republicans or Democrats...the last time we had a 'budget' was when Newt forced Clinton into one...and what happened? I remember Clinton bragging about the 'surplus' he created...

When is the sickening political hackery going to end on either side of the aisle. F the Democrats. F the Republicans. Are you really unable to see what is happening to America? What is the end result of all of this Tiggs? From my perspective...it all ends in one place...Totalitarian Goverment. There is no Utopia...it's a myth...ever go to your local Wal-mart? Well, go someday and just look around...THIS is what America has become. An overweight, lazy, untintelligent, tattoo crazed slob of a Government Handout!

[Agent0range]

Yeah, that's like my wife coming to me with the 'budget'...Okay honey, we are buying a boat, a new house, several diamond rings, a ski trip, a trip to Paris, 4 new cars, and a Lear Jet. And how do you expect me to pay for all of that dear? Well, sweetheart, you need to take on another job, plus, we are going to make all our neighbors chip in for the goods as well. I see darling, but you have to understand that is not going to happen...we are not going to buy all that stuff! Okay, your right honey, forget the ski trip....

That isn't a budget Tiggs! A budget is this...we make x amount of dollars per year...and we spend no more than x amount.

Really, honestly...Washington DC and budget??? Republicans or Democrats...the last time we had a 'budget' was when Newt forced Clinton into one...and what happened? I remember Clinton bragging about the 'surplus' he created...

When is the sickening political hackery going to end on either side of the aisle. F the Democrats. F the Republicans. Are you really unable to see what is happening to America? What is the end result of all of this Tiggs? From my perspective...it all ends in one place...Totalitarian Goverment. There is no Utopia...it's a myth...ever go to your local Wal-mart? Well, go someday and just look around...THIS is what America has become. An overweight, lazy, untintelligent, tattoo crazed slob of a Government Handout!

Why are you so hateful towards other people? What makes you better than people at Wal-Mart? Do you find yourself more intelligent than most? Are you college educated? I mean, if you are so great, you should have an amazing job pulling in at least 6 figures. In shape, highly motivated, highly educated and intelligent and no tattoos...I'd hire you.

[+joc]

Why are you so hateful towards other people? What makes you better than people at Wal-Mart? Do you find yourself more intelligent than most? Are you college educated? I mean, if you are so great, you should have an amazing job pulling in at least 6 figures. In shape, highly motivated, highly educated and intelligent and no tattoos...I'd hire you.

I do find myself more intelligent than most. I have some college experience, mostly the school of hard knocks. I do have an amazing job, and in the past I was pulling 6 figs...until the Nightmare Messiah came to town. I am in shape, I am highly motivated, I am highly intelligent, and yes...I have no tattoos....when do I start?

[Agent0range]

I do find myself more intelligent than most. I have some college experience, mostly the school of hard knocks. I do have an amazing job, and in the past I was pulling 6 figs...until the Nightmare Messiah came to town. I am in shape, I am highly motivated, I am highly intelligent, and yes...I have no tattoos....when do I start?

Blaming others for problems you now face is a very intelligent thing to do. So you have an amazing job, but it doesn't offer insurance? That doesn't seem right.