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"Christian" is a useless term


J. K.

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I read that and what I get is:

I am the way = follow the path I took in life and it will lead straight to God.

I am the truth = what I tell you is true, the path of my life is true

I am the life = the path I took and the words I spoke will enact the true "life" God wishes for man within him.

No one comes to the Father but by me = you need to learn what I knew, walk the path I walked into comprehension, to reach the Father.

All in all, he is showing us through his teachings how to come to the Father. I do not read it as worship of him is the way to the Father. So many people will simply pray to and worship Jesus while going about their lives as they have always done thinking "I pray to Jesus = job done". This doesn't ring true to me, we need to be paying attention to what he said, what he did and why he did those things - we don't need to pray to him, except for more teaching and guidance, we need to comprehend what he was trying to teach us about the nature of Truth and Life. It is his teaching which is the path, he speaks of himself as the product of his teaching in action.

I come to this because I consider that he was first and foremost a humble man - he did not act to bring power to himself but to personify the Glory of God on earth. I believe others can also personify this glory - so did he, apparently.

Matthew 5:5-9

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

What I like about these precepts is that are demonstrably true in this present life. One does not have to die and be reborn to find them to be true. Live by those precepts and you will find each promise physically fulfilled while you remain alive .
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What I like about these precepts is that are demonstrably true in this present life. One does not have to die and be reborn to find them to be true. Live by those precepts and you will find each promise physically fulfilled while you remain alive .

Exactly so Mr Walker - the Kingdom of Heaven is already within us, here and now we just need to live in it.

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To be a christian all you have to do is believe christ is the son of god and he died for our sins and rose from the dead. Everything else is about what kind of work you need to do here on earth to get to heaven. But, christ said all were saved dispite the work.

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Then maybe rather than saying others who don't share your belief system aren't Christians say you are not Christian and call yourself something different like Bible-ist. How do you actually know what Jesus said, in the end he didn't actually write anything down and it appears to me to be hearsay. If you look at the actual history of the book it has been radically changed even after Council of Nicea. I think the Coptic Christians are really the only ones who have the history to be on a line of being the first Christians, so I would say they are actually the only "real" Christians.

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All ancient christian churchs and the protistants have lost the truth of christ. The one that comes the closest to having the truth are the masons. They have the truth but they hide it from the world, ie put their light under a basket.

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To be a christian all you have to do is believe christ is the son of god and he died for our sins and rose from the dead. Everything else is about what kind of work you need to do here on earth to get to heaven. But, christ said all were saved dispite the work.

Wait ... what? How can everything else be about "the work you need to do here on earth to get to heaven" if "all were saved despite the work" exactly?

The idea that just believing a dogma will get someone into heaven is the root cause of the problems within christianity today - it look nonsensical to others because it just reads to non-believers as "believe the sky is purple and do as you please - just don't let anyone try to convince you it's actually blue no matter what evidence they present or you will go to hell with them".

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Yikes, Daniel! What a generalization!!! You're contributing, negatively, to the negativity of the "useless" word in the OP! Ah, forget it. . . I'm lost. . .

Sheesh!

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I'm told that, in real estate, it's "location, location, location." I think, in spirituality, it's not "acceptance" or "condemnation," but rather "tolerance, tolerance, tolerance."

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Perhaps Daniel means that belief which finds no expression in "works" is not enough. A true believer will live their entire life doing works which are born from a love of Christ and a desire to be like him. Thus a true believer will demonstrate to others many good works even though they have nothing to do with getting into heaven. When god judges a person's heart and mind he will know how sincere the belief was, but a sincere believer, surely, would live their faith.

Edited by Mr Walker
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Wait ... what? How can everything else be about "the work you need to do here on earth to get to heaven" if "all were saved despite the work" exactly?

The idea that just believing a dogma will get someone into heaven is the root cause of the problems within christianity today - it look nonsensical to others because it just reads to non-believers as "believe the sky is purple and do as you please - just don't let anyone try to convince you it's actually blue no matter what evidence they present or you will go to hell with them".

Actually everyone will get into heaven, with a few exceptions. You do not have to believe or even know of christ. But, those who believe in christ and those who never heard of him will get higher status than tnose who know of him but don't believe. The good works you do on earth will also get a higher status belief or non-belief.

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Actually everyone will get into heaven, with a few exceptions. You do not have to believe or even know of christ. But, those who believe in christ and those who never heard of him will get higher status than tnose who know of him but don't believe. The good works you do on earth will also get a higher status belief or non-belief.

You know, I have a problem with this idea of "status" in heaven. Sounds too much like classes -- rich and poor, commoners and nobility. I dunno but it all strikes me as kinda against the idea of heaven.
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Actually everyone will get into heaven, with a few exceptions. You do not have to believe or even know of christ. But, those who believe in christ and those who never heard of him will get higher status than tnose who know of him but don't believe. The good works you do on earth will also get a higher status belief or non-belief.

Frank has hit the nail on the head on this one.

So, daniel, what you have badically said is.....everyone is NOT equal.

I have no intentions of going to heaven, and will be damned if something other mother nature, tries to dictate to me where I should stand when i am dead, I do not put up with that now while i am alive.

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Actually everyone will get into heaven, with a few exceptions. You do not have to believe or even know of christ. But, those who believe in christ and those who never heard of him will get higher status than tnose who know of him but don't believe. The good works you do on earth will also get a higher status belief or non-belief.

What is most interesting about this is that I actually nearly agree with you - specifically that most folk will get into heaven. As to those that know of him but don't believe - I have a question mark over that one, we can hear of many things but if we do not believe everything we hear, it will have more to do with the prevalence of falsehoods in the world than that we are willfully ignoring a truth. More specifically, it would be better for a man to know than to believe something and I think that if the opportunity to know something is not provided it is not then possible to expect a man to believe it.

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I always tell myself as long as my atheism is genuine -- that is I am honest about it that there is no reason to think God exists and every reason to think he doesn't, then in the unlikely even that I am mistaken, He will forgive me.

Theists try to explain atheism by asserting that atheists don't believe for some perverse reason. This is not true. I would love to believe, but can't bring myself to accept something so absurd.

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You know, I have a problem with this idea of "status" in heaven. Sounds too much like classes -- rich and poor, commoners and nobility. I dunno but it all strikes me as kinda against the idea of heaven.

It is more a matter of "birds of a feather" rather than status.

John 14:2

"My father's house has many rooms, if it were not so, I would have told you."

To my mind it speaks to there being a room that is the correct room for each, not better or worse but definitively "heaven" for each individual. Some may wish that heaven is a closeness to God himself and that it is the better place, others would more likely be unaware enough of such an opportunity to even think to have the wish, these would be in bliss where they are as it is the place prepared for them.

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Oh I assure you if there is a God I would very much like to be close to Him. It would hardly be a matter of wanting to distance myself.

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All ancient christian churchs and the protistants have lost the truth of christ. The one that comes the closest to having the truth are the masons. They have the truth but they hide it from the world, ie put their light under a basket.

I take you are not a Mason. I was in a Coven with a Mason. He didn't seem to have any conflicts with being Pagan. My impression of Masons are they are not really of any particular religion.

Check out this site, it is very informative.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/religion2.htm

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Frank has hit the nail on the head on this one.

So, daniel, what you have badically said is.....everyone is NOT equal.

I have no intentions of going to heaven, and will be damned if something other mother nature, tries to dictate to me where I should stand when i am dead, I do not put up with that now while i am alive.

God will not tell you where to stand. You will stand where you are comfortable. That is how close to god you will stand. I used status because I can't think of a better word.

But as has been stated christ was not a christian he was jewish.

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God will not tell you where to stand. You will stand where you are comfortable. That is how close to god you will stand. I used status because I can't think of a better word.

But as has been stated christ was not a christian he was jewish.

huh? Of course he was Jewish, he was born a Jew and christianity was not even on the menu when he was chopping wood, everybody knows that and I would be surprised if someone said anything different, but as with many others, he rebelled against some

of the jewish rules, had a few words, the jewish big men did not like it and them and the romans did what they did to so many others like him, and the rest is history.

PS: you are right about god not telling me where i stand.

Edited by freetoroam
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I think the matter is not that the name has become useless or imprecise, but rather that so many people have copied and changed Jesus' message four their own gain and now almost anyone can claim to be Christian, and woe betide the person who says a group are not "true Christians", for that makes the person intolerant.

Put it this way, if I said I was an atheist but believe in God, every atheist is well within their Right to tell me that I'm not really an atheist. But if a Christian says they don't believe in Christ (yes, there are people like this out there), it's intolerant for me to tell then that they're not really Christian then. Or so current reasoning dictates. Am I the only one that sees how messed up that is?

The teachings of Christ are largely unambiguous, with one or two exceptions. But in the end, only God can ultimately decree whether a person truly is a follower of Christ or not.

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huh? Of course he was Jewish, he was born a Jew and christianity was not even on the menu when he was chopping wood, everybody knows that and I would be surprised if someone said anything different, but as with many others, he rebelled against some

of the jewish rules, had a few words, the jewish big men did not like it and them and the romans did what they did to so many others like him, and the rest is history.

PS: you are right about god not telling me where i stand.

It wasn't the law he had a problem with. The problem was those who were in charge was preaching that they should follow the word of the law instead of the spirit of the law.

His parable of the sheep in the well is a good example. If the sheep had fallen into the well on the sabath, the letter of the law says it has to stay there until the next day, however the spirit of the law says you can save it now.

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Paranoid, I believe that would fall under judge not. Which is why when I say the catholic church is not a christian church, I use the qualifier, I don't know about the members, they may or may not be. I can judge the church with out judgeing the members of it.

Or I can be anti-gay and treat a gay person with respect. Christ was vry much against sin in all of its forms, but he treated the individual with respect.

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Or I can be anti-gay and treat a gay person with respect. Christ was vry much against sin in all of its forms, but he treated the individual with respect.

But Jesus damned entire groups of people en mass, especially if they opposed him in any way. One term, "a generation of vipers" comes to mind. Pharisees were "wicked and adulterous people". Jesus swore that anyone who was against him would be be cast "into everlasting fire". He regularly referred to Sodom and how that will be a picnic compared to what would happen to sinners of his time.

Respect for sinners? Sorry, I can't find it.

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Paranoid, I believe that would fall under judge not. Which is why when I say the catholic church is not a christian church, I use the qualifier, I don't know about the members, they may or may not be. I can judge the church with out judgeing the members of it.

Likewise, I could say that the Mormon Church is not a true Christian Church as it contains various heretical beliefs contrary to mainstream Christianity, but I would not judge individual members. ;)

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Likewise, I could say that the Mormon Church is not a true Christian Church as it contains various heretical beliefs contrary to mainstream Christianity, but I would not judge individual members. ;)

Perhaps the word "judge" is not the best word to use. Judging involves handing out something. To judge a contest, you hand out an award. To judge a trial, you hand out a sentence. To judge a person, in the context of the above referenced quote, you hand out a condemnation.

Instead, perhaps "make an assessment" is a better term. I think that everybody forms some sort of opinion after observing another individual. We assess them, or make an assumption about them.

In the context of religion, we apply a label to them, particularly based on differences in their belief system and our own. It could be accurate to label an atheist as non-Christian. What about Catholic vs. Protestant vs. Evangelical vs. Mormon? The process becomes murkier when we move from general differences to specific differences.

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