The Threat of Israel's WMD Arsenals

[Space Commander Travis]

"(Muhammad said:) The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews. "

Yeah.. they've always been real buds..

Did not G-d Smite plenty of those who were the enemies of Israel on their behalf? And that's still in their Holy book.

[Space Commander Travis]

Another anti-Islam hit piece from our resident commander of Zion. So, another warlike tribe in the desert had a very good group of Godly messengers and Holy salesmen. That's another good reason not to be Abrahamic, my Judeo-Christian-Zionist friend.

Jews and Muslims lived at peace for hundreds of years before the birth of Israel. The anti-Jew problem wasn't in the Middle East, it was in Europe and to a lesser extent the US since we were immigrants of Europe. There were unprecedented periods of peace between Arab and Jew and you can't even acknowledge it. But it gets even worse because you don't want to reward the peace, you want to punish those people instead, for a scripture belonging to their religion, despite their behavior?

With such low to non-existent standards for excuse making, we can start wars anytime, anywhere and for virtually any reason. But you cap your rules off at "the Jews" so not to appear unreasonable.

I think that's a very fair point; anti-Semitism wasn't the exclusive right of Muslims, was it, not until since WWII, at any rate, for very much longer it was a favorite hobby of "Christians".

[+and-then]

Another anti-Islam hit piece from our resident commander of Zion. So, another warlike tribe in the desert had a very good group of Godly messengers and Holy salesmen. That's another good reason not to be Abrahamic, my Judeo-Christian-Zionist friend.

Jews and Muslims lived at peace for hundreds of years before the birth of Israel. The anti-Jew problem wasn't in the Middle East, it was in Europe and to a lesser extent the US since we were immigrants of Europe. There were unprecedented periods of peace between Arab and Jew and you can't even acknowledge it. But it gets even worse because you don't want to reward the peace, you want to punish those people instead, for a scripture belonging to their religion, despite their behavior?

With such low to non-existent standards for excuse making, we can start wars anytime, anywhere and for virtually any reason. But you cap your rules off at "the Jews" so not to appear unreasonable.

Abraham lived about 600 years after Christ. He dictated those words. He is said by all devout Muslims to be the PERFECT image of what a man is supposed to be, act and do. So for about 1400 years Muslims have been commanded to think in these terms. No question - and no rhetoric disproves it.

[+and-then]

Did not G-d Smite plenty of those who were the enemies of Israel on their behalf? And that's still in their Holy book.

And that fact changes what, exactly?

I think that's a very fair point; anti-Semitism wasn't the exclusive right of Muslims, was it, not until since WWII, at any rate, for very much longer it was a favorite hobby of "Christians".

Also - changes NOTHING about the point being made. It was a direct answer to another tirade by Yammy boy.

[XingWi]

You sir, are a liar. I do NOT advocate the "mass murder" of anyone and never have. I speak here on behalf of a country that most in the world would just as soon see GONE. The vitriol that is sprayed over that is quite something to see. It is very easy to dismiss a source that actually proves a point that is unpalatable to your dogma isn't it? Yet you regularly post up RT which is a mouthpiece for Putin and nothing more.

That's more of your lies. You do not downplay their massacre all the time?! Are you denying that now, Liar?! Countless times you have done that whenever the issue of civilian deaths in Iraq in war and occupation comes up, you downplay that by saying they were dying before that anyway, the same with Afghanistan, you have made similar comments about Libya before, and about the Palestinians your comments are beyond insensitive.

Your comment about the dead children of Palestine was outrageous and extremely disrespectful to those innocent victims that if they were killed by the Israeli bullets and bombs then the fault was their own as those children were "trying to kill israelis"?!? The way you downplay these things all the time speaks loud and clear about your deep rooted bigotry and heartless adversity. And that is the height of racism.

[XingWi]

People who refer to Israel as committing "atrocities" or "mass murders" automatically disqualify themselves from the circle of the rational, and have nothing of value to contribute. Such language is from the gutter of propaganda.

Talk about double standards and hypocricy!

Collective punishments of the Palestinians, using Incendiary weapons of white phosphorus on civilians where even children in schools are not spared, myriad human rights violations, deportations of the Palestinians, demolitions of their homes, confiscation of their lands, establishing illegal settlements and so on... If you don't call these as atrocities then what do you call them?

Anybody who refuses to consider these inhumane acts as atrocities despite being aware of them has disqualified himself from the circle of morality and right-mindedness and has damaged his own credibility.

[XingWi]

I have a deep distrust of Islam; I think it is a dangerous religion comparable to Christianity in the Dark Ages. That said I'm sure there are plenty of fine Muslims. Their attitude toward Israel, however, is less than civilized.

Their attitude, not just toward Israel, but toward America too. Want to change that? Stop killing their brethren.

Orthodox Jews themselves acknowledge the fact that Jews and Muslims had coexisted peacefully for many hundreds of years before Israel came into existence.

In a declaration made by a group of rabbis of orthodox Judaism - the members of the organisation "Neturei Karta" - Jews united Against Zionism:

Jews and Muslims have been coexisting in harmony in Palestine for at least many hundreds of years. Jews have likewise lived in Muslim countries enjoying their most gracious hospitality and in many cases, their safe haven throughout their long history. This all went on without a United Nations or Human Rights groups to protect the Jews. Their protection was not necessary because contrary to the current prevalent popular portrayal - there is not a religious conflict between Muslims and Jews, or an ingrained hate between the two.

This portrayal of animosity is the creation of a relatively new political ideology called Zionism. Zionism is the transformation of the religion of Judaism from spirituality, humbleness, and subservience to the Almighty – into a base materialistic ideology of nationalism and freedom from and removal of, the Almighty from the root equation.

In the present reality, Zionism has taken the land of Palestine, the Holy Land, from the indigenous populace, the Muslims, Christians and Jews, with little and no regard to their feelings and acceptance of this foreign rule over their land, homes and lives.

Read the complete letter here: http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Demonstrations/20110727.cfm

My admiration and respect to all those righteous jews that are stepping up and honestly speaking up against the evils of Zionism.

[+and-then]

That's more of your lies. You do not downplay their massacre all the time?! Are you denying that now, Liar?! Countless times you have done that whenever the issue of civilian deaths in Iraq in war and occupation comes up, you downplay that by saying they were dying before that anyway, the same with Afghanistan, you have made similar comments about Libya before, and about the Palestinians your comments are beyond insensitive.

Your comment about the dead children of Palestine was outrageous and extremely disrespectful to those innocent victims that if they were killed by the Israeli bullets and bombs then the fault was their own as those children were "trying to kill israelis"?!? The way you downplay these things all the time speaks loud and clear about your deep rooted bigotry and heartless adversity. And that is the height of racism.

Reference a post where I advocated for mass murder of anyone or shut up.

[Frank Merton]

The thing I am surprised about seeing all this anti-Israel propaganda is that those posting it must know that we all lived through those times and therefore know full well what lies they are spouting. Maybe they actually think it's the truth -- but that would imply they are as crazy as their rhetoric would seem to indicate.

At any rate I don't like being called a hypocrite when I post honestly how I feel, and I really do think Islam has a tremendous need to take a very close look at itself and how everywhere in the world where there is trouble there are Muslims involved.

[Space Commander Travis]

Hold on and hold up, is this the cry of Anti-Semitism I see before me yet again? so no one is allowed to be critical of the Israeli government, without being anti-Jew? Isn't that rather like the argument that criticism of Barack O is racist?

[+and-then]

Hold on and hold up, is this the cry of Anti-Semitism I see before me yet again? so no one is allowed to be critical of the Israeli government, without being anti-Jew? Isn't that rather like the argument that criticism of Barack O is racist?

The Israeli government represents the Jewish people in the ME. I think we can agree on that at least? A large number - though not a majority, do not align themselves with the concept of a "Jewish" homeland aka Zionism. The nation of Israel would NEVER have been born but for that ideal so frankly I think they are hypocrites but leaving that aside it is entirely possible to condemn the government there without being labeled an anti Semite. But when the rhetoric reaches a level where the only solution to the "grievances" caused by that government would be leaving the state in a position of jeopardy to it's very survival - well - does it really make a difference whether one is anti Jew vs anti Jewish government? It is foolish to act as if there is no existential threat to the Jewish state. Her enemies would END her if not for the IDF. To deny that says all one needs to know about motives in castigating Israel.

[Dark_Grey]

It is foolish to act as if there is no existential threat to the Jewish state. Her enemies would END her if not for the continued support from Western countries.

Fixed that for ya.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Dark_Grey

[Yamato]

The thing I am surprised about seeing all this anti-Israel propaganda is that those posting it must know that we all lived through those times and therefore know full well what lies they are spouting. Maybe they actually think it's the truth -- but that would imply they are as crazy as their rhetoric would seem to indicate.

At any rate I don't like being called a hypocrite when I post honestly how I feel, and I really do think Islam has a tremendous need to take a very close look at itself and how everywhere in the world where there is trouble there are Muslims involved.

You, just like your identical twin 'and then', pay all attention to negative words (a lie from the media; a cherry picking from scripture, a theoretical statement from 2001 blown out of context) said by individuals you don't like very much and you're willfully and dutifully blind as a bat to the negative actions of nations you like very much. Actions don't speak louder than words to you, which make you Zionists very strange fish. Even when the actions you defend are exactly what you're fear mongering about the other "side" doing in theory only. It's rotgut hypocrisy. Iran can't even have the thought, emotion, or theoretical rhetoric about what Israel does in plain sight every day.

Now that Iran is on a charm offensive, you sure as hell can't listen to that. Those aren't the fear mongering war propagandizing words that fit your Zionist belief system. Positivity and peace and fair analyses of threats in the world don't suit your agenda.

'and then', and you his shadow, are losing debate after debate on sheer weight of facts on a regular basis on this board, and to compensate for losing you constantly insult me and others here with your 'anti-Semitism' insult. Spew your dirty insult once if you can't grow up and control yourself, and then shut up.

You need to be taken to school in a big way if you seriously can't understand the bleeping difference between a nation and a religious group. And right now, you are obviously in need of a lesson.

[+and-then]

I will shut up. Have a nice day Yam.

[Yamato]

I will shut up. Have a nice day Yam.

It's an insidious, character-demeaning insult to suggest that posters here are "anti-Semitic" or more specifically "anti-Jewish" only because they have differences with Israel. Put your stones away David, you don't need them.

Jews are here, dude. They're among us. Do you have relationships with any? They don't have anything to do with Israel and think the people over there are radicals, if even Jewish at all.

The Israeli government represents the Jewish people in the ME. I think we can agree on that at least?

No, the Israeli government most certainly does not represent "the Jewish people of the ME". Good grief, really?

[XingWi]

Reference a post where I advocated for mass murder of anyone or shut up.

Don't twist my words. I said you downplay these thigs all the time. You did it just a couple of pages back in this very thread in your comment about the deaths of the Palestinian children. A few days back, you downplayed the civilians casualties in Iraq war and the radiation hazards they are suffering from, in this thread here. You do it almost everytime something like this comes up. It is very obvious what drives you toward this behaviour is ethnic hatred. While you may pretend here that you acknowledge the sufferings of the Palestinians too, but anyone that can read between the lines can see your actual desire to watch the "enemies" of Israel suffer and perish just because in your skewed interpretations of the scriptures its been "prophesied" it would be so. Go ahead, deny this one too.

The hatred that you are spreading here may not seem that significant when coming from an individual posting on some internet forum, but collectively, this very hatred forms that extremely destructive force - the same force that has lead to various genocides throughout history.

Edited October 26, 2013 by XingWi

[+and-then]

Don't twist my words. I said you downplay these thigs all the time. You did it just a couple of pages back in this very thread in your comment about the deaths of the Palestinian children. A few days back, you downplayed the civilians casualties in Iraq war and the radiation hazards they are suffering from, in this thread here. You do it almost everytime something like this comes up. It is very obvious what drives you toward this behaviour is ethnic hatred. While you may pretend here that you acknowledge the sufferings of the Palestinians too, but anyone that can read between the lines can see your actual desire to watch the "enemies" of Israel suffer and perish just because in your skewed interpretations of the scriptures its been "prophesied" it would be so. Go ahead, deny this one too.

The hatred that you are spreading here may not seem that significant when coming from an individual posting on some internet forum, but collectively, this very hatred forms that extremely destructive force - the same force that has lead to various genocides throughout history.

The fact that you have reached this conclusion about me negates any possibility of having a reasonable dialogue so i will in future read but not respond to you XW. This forum is valuable to me and arguing back and forth at such a volume could get someone banned or even cause the forum to be damaged and it just isn't worth it to me. Think what you like about me but you might want to investigate that beam in your own eye as well. Have a nice day man.

[Yamato]

The fact that you have reached this conclusion about me negates any possibility of having a reasonable dialogue so i will in future read but not respond to you XW. This forum is valuable to me and arguing back and forth at such a volume could get someone banned or even cause the forum to be damaged and it just isn't worth it to me. Think what you like about me but you might want to investigate that beam in your own eye as well. Have a nice day man.

You give me the same impression brah.

[Yamato]

Here's a video alleging information on Israel's nuclear power. The woman doing the report does not have her numbers right in how many times more powerful Israel's bombs are than the WW2 atomic bombs.

[media=]

[/media]

So, Israel already had at the time of this video, Jericho 2 ballistic missiles with a 1 megaton warhead able to reach western Iran.

Is this a threat to other countries in the Middle East? This kind of question is rarely if ever asked.

I think it's altogether rational for anyone in the Middle East to be threatened by these weapons. Am I wrong?

Edited October 28, 2013 by Yamato

[Yamato]

Until now I've only been suggesting that Israel be inspected. They can keep every last rifle and bullet of their arsenal, but they should cooperate with the will of the world but because they don't, they should be cajoled and coerced and convinced to do so

Shouldn't there be an effort to stop Israel's nuclear technology from becoming advanced enough to build missiles that fly half way around the world? Is that a threat to anyone?

[Frank Merton]

I don't see what good an inspection would do except tell Israel's enemies how to knock out Israel's retaliatory capabilities. I can understand that the Israelis would refuse to allow that.

[Yamato]

I don't see what good an inspection would do except tell Israel's enemies how to knock out Israel's retaliatory capabilities. I can understand that the Israelis would refuse to allow that.

We can count on you for the one-sided view.

[Frank Merton]

We can count on you for the one-sided view.

A put down like that when you have no good answer is also what we can expect from you.

[Frank Merton]

I'm not particularly pro-Israel, but I do understand Islam and don't trust it, so I tend to fall on the other side whenever Muslims are involved; I know how they are and the arrogance built into their thinking.

[+and-then]

I'm not particularly pro-Israel, but I do understand Islam and don't trust it, so I tend to fall on the other side whenever Muslims are involved; I know how they are and the arrogance built into their thinking.

When the Ayatollah decides the world is looking sufficiently the other way, they will assemble their bomb and the world will just have to live with it. Israel will do nothing because they can't do it alone apparently. Obama will not become involved except possibly as a spoiler. The world is going to be a lot less stable when the evil in Tehran decides to tweak the economies of the west with not so subtle threats of action. If no one will stand against them BEFORE they have nukes, who will possibly do it afterwards?