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Yamato

The Threat of Israel's WMD Arsenals

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Yamato

You could say all that about the permanent members of the Security Council

Huh?! UNSC members didn't ignore the WMD treaties, and I have no idea what crimes against humanity or assassinations etc. you're referring to when speaking about these member states of the Council.

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joc

Your analogy is scary but useless as a predictor of what may actually happen, but I may use it sometime as an example of what is wrong with thinking by analogy. I am in fact rather an optimist about humanity. There are serious threats ahead as the technology for mass destruction gets cheaper and cheaper, but I think societies will respond accordingly. It may involve a good deal of invasion of privacy, but that is a fire that can be controlled and will be necessary, and I think will come to our rescue. We put up with searches when boarding aircraft now, so I don't think when people look at the alternatives they will really object.

In the meantime living standards are vastly improving, even in Communist countries.

My friend, open your eyes. You see the living room. You see what the living room could be. You sit there on the couch looking around the room, never seeing the Elephant in the room. You do not see the Elephant because you are sitting on it. Your sofa has eyes.

I love analogies because they portray a point of discussion in ways that contrast. In the above analogy, Totalitarian Government and Total Control of the People is the Elephant in the room. It is camoflauged to the point that it is pretty much invisible to most. Who created technology? The Free Markets. Who is destroying the Free Markets? And when the Free Market System that generated the 'living standards' you speak of is gone...then what?

I too am an optimist...but I too am a realist...I believe I can fly...but I also know that if I jump off the roof and flap my arms I will hit the ground.

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Yamato

Glenn Beck is crying because of this topic.

Neo-Con-Godfather.jpg

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Frank Merton

Privacy and liberty are good things; I'm all against slavery and cameras in the bedroom. Now lets have some balance. If there exist people planning to plant a nuclear weapon in the city I live in, I want and expect my government to be spying on them with every technological method they can lay their hands on, and legal niceties be dammed.

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joc

Privacy and liberty are good things; I'm all against slavery and cameras in the bedroom. Now lets have some balance. If there exist people planning to plant a nuclear weapon in the city I live in, I want and expect my government to be spying on them with every technological method they can lay their hands on, and legal niceties be dammed.

People get all alarmed by things that they find out that they didn't know before and think it is all BIG news. The fact is: Our Government has been listening to every phone call in the entire freaking world since the 1990's. Every phone call on the planet! Think about that!

In the nineties we had the technology to 'listen' for keywords and phrases...in all languages...and we 'listened' to the world...and we are still 'listening' to the world.

That only becomes scary when one realizes that their Government will use that technology against free thought and free speech. That's where we in America are now. We don't trust our Government...and we are speaking out about it...because that's what we do...

...I wonder if even five years from now we will still be 'speaking' about it...or will fear of government silence us all?

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Yamato

People get all alarmed by things that they find out that they didn't know before and think it is all BIG news. The fact is: Our Government has been listening to every phone call in the entire freaking world since the 1990's. Every phone call on the planet! Think about that!

In the nineties we had the technology to 'listen' for keywords and phrases...in all languages...and we 'listened' to the world...and we are still 'listening' to the world.

That only becomes scary when one realizes that their Government will use that technology against free thought and free speech. That's where we in America are now. We don't trust our Government...and we are speaking out about it...because that's what we do...

...I wonder if even five years from now we will still be 'speaking' about it...or will fear of government silence us all?

Not another retread about the NSA, please. Let's keep it on topic. Are Israel's arsenals a threat or not? Why, or why not?

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Frank Merton

Not another retread about the NSA, please. Let's keep it on topic. Are Israel's arsenals a threat or not? Why, or why not?

The answer is no except to any country that attacks them. They are a republic.
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joc

Not another retread about the NSA, please. Let's keep it on topic. Are Israel's arsenals a threat or not? Why, or why not?

No they are not. They are a defense against enemies of their state who have sworn to destroy them.

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Frank Merton

That only becomes scary when one realizes that their Government will use that technology against free thought and free speech. That's where we in America are now. We don't trust our Government...and we are speaking out about it...because that's what we do...

...I wonder if even five years from now we will still be 'speaking' about it...or will fear of government silence us all?

I think if you don't trust your government this is a problem. Here in Vietnam the government has all the legal power in the world to do pretty much anything it decides to do, and people have gotten use to it and have found that pretty much it is only criminals who have any reason to be concerned. Sometimes individual officials get out of hand, but the government handles that sort of thing too. (As a matter of fact issues such as religion and speech and travel and competing with state enterprises and so on have relaxed steadily over the last couple decades).

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Yamato

I don't watch Fox...I don't have a Television...I know history...obviously you do not.

joc you're on websites so poor, Fox News dot com would be an enormous improvement in quality and credibility.

Don't have a television? You've got a high speed internet provider and a computer monitor....It's all content across the wire these days, of course you have a TV.

Like you questioned me about Israel's feces gun, have you seen Israel's nukes with your own eyes?

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and then

As stated earlier -YES Israel's WMD are a threat - to their enemies. What evidence do you have that they have been or are being used to threaten anyone else? When did they issue an ultimatum that they would use them if this or that demand were not met? The nukes of every nation are a threat but only against those who would try to annihilate them. The one exception that must be considered is a nation whose leaders casually speak of destroying their enemies with "one storm". Or discuss the propriety of using nukes to remove a country even though great harm would come to another country in return. All because "Islam" could withstand the loss of a single country - Iran. These are facts that your rhetoric cannot dispel regardless how vocally you deny them. The world seems almost gleeful that Oby has turned his back on Israel. The danger to the world - the THREAT - as you put it, will be realized when this nation is backed into a corner. The very destruction you are thinking of will have been brought down on us all due to the hatred against one of the smallest coutries on the planet. When it happens the world will be receiving what it deserves.

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Yamato

As stated earlier -YES Israel's WMD are a threat - to their enemies. What evidence do you have that they have been or are being used to threaten anyone else? When did they issue an ultimatum that they would use them if this or that demand were not met? The nukes of every nation are a threat but only against those who would try to annihilate them. The one exception that must be considered is a nation whose leaders casually speak of destroying their enemies with "one storm". Or discuss the propriety of using nukes to remove a country even though great harm would come to another country in return. All because "Islam" could withstand the loss of a single country - Iran. These are facts that your rhetoric cannot dispel regardless how vocally you deny them. The world seems almost gleeful that Oby has turned his back on Israel. The danger to the world - the THREAT - as you put it, will be realized when this nation is backed into a corner. The very destruction you are thinking of will have been brought down on us all due to the hatred against one of the smallest coutries on the planet. When it happens the world will be receiving what it deserves.

Whoa there, where are these facts? I've heard a lot of real facts of what the current leadership of Iran's been saying and it's very promising, positive and peaceful. It's not my rhetoric. But if Iranian rhetoric matters, you're going to swallow it both ways like the rest of us.

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and then

Whoa there, where are these facts? I've heard a lot of real facts of what the current leadership of Iran's been saying and it's very promising, positive and peaceful. It's not my rhetoric. But if Iranian rhetoric matters, you're going to swallow it both ways like the rest of us.

http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm

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joc

joc you're on websites so poor, Fox News dot com would be an enormous improvement in quality and credibility.

Don't have a television? You've got a high speed internet provider and a computer monitor....It's all content across the wire these days, of course you have a TV.

Like you questioned me about Israel's feces gun, have you seen Israel's nukes with your own eyes?

No...I don't really have a TV. There is a TV in my daughter's bedroom...but only so she can watch movies...I have no TV...no cable...no satellite...I couldn't tell you who the big stars are, or, what the hottest reality shows are, or, what is going on with Fox or CNN or any of the mainstream Media/State Media outlets...it's all propoganda to fill the airwaves. I got so tired of listening to non-stop coverage of whatever the 'story of the day' is, from evey conceivable angle. You know...very few people don't watch TV. When I was a kid there were only 3 channels: ABC, NBC, CBS. A Monopoly on Propoganda. Now...not so much...but it's all the same anyway. It doesn't matter what channel you watch, or what newspaper you read...it's all the same democrat/republican he said/she said crap. It really is so much like the Media in Orwell's book. Example: Today's Headline...StockMarket Crash Unprecedented...and the People go...oooohhh no, can it get any worse???? Tomorrow's Headline...StockMarket Set's New High...and the People go...Yeaaaa! Yesterdays Headline....Obama For Abortion...and the People go...oooohhh, Obama is for Abortion...Todays Headline...Obama is ProLife...and the people go...Yeaaa!!! It's all crap. Those were just made up headlines by the way...but the point remains nonetheless. Want to improve your life tremendously? Snip the crap from oozing into your soul...kill the TV.

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acidhead

I agree with both joc and yam ... I haven't had cable tv or a television for years... yet I use the internet for the source of all my outside info and this would include most main stream media. I'm forced to look into their crap because the GOV uses the media to deliver their message.

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Yamato

You have to go pre-Ahmadinejad just to find a fact? I read your Zionist story there and again, what facts do you have? Colonialism would become a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb wouldn't leave anything for Israel! This is a hypothetical and valid statement, it's not a threat against Israel, like your Zionist source tried to weave by borrowing another quote from an unnamed "commentator" to infer that Rafsanjani was somehow "calling on a nuclear attack on Israel". Iranians are allowed to make theoretical statements about the balance of power in the region even as it contends with the danger of Israel's rogue nuclear arsenals.

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Yamato

No...I don't really have a TV. There is a TV in my daughter's bedroom...but only so she can watch movies...I have no TV...no cable...no satellite...I couldn't tell you who the big stars are, or, what the hottest reality shows are, or, what is going on with Fox or CNN or any of the mainstream Media/State Media outlets...it's all propoganda to fill the airwaves. I got so tired of listening to non-stop coverage of whatever the 'story of the day' is, from evey conceivable angle. You know...very few people don't watch TV. When I was a kid there were only 3 channels: ABC, NBC, CBS. A Monopoly on Propoganda. Now...not so much...but it's all the same anyway. It doesn't matter what channel you watch, or what newspaper you read...it's all the same democrat/republican he said/she said crap. It really is so much like the Media in Orwell's book. Example: Today's Headline...StockMarket Crash Unprecedented...and the People go...oooohhh no, can it get any worse???? Tomorrow's Headline...StockMarket Set's New High...and the People go...Yeaaaa! Yesterdays Headline....Obama For Abortion...and the People go...oooohhh, Obama is for Abortion...Todays Headline...Obama is ProLife...and the people go...Yeaaa!!! It's all crap. Those were just made up headlines by the way...but the point remains nonetheless. Want to improve your life tremendously? Snip the crap from oozing into your soul...kill the TV.

'Breaking Bad' isn't exactly 'Fox & Friends' but okay.

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joc

'Breaking Bad' isn't exactly 'Fox & Friends' but okay.

I wouldn't know. The last TV show that I could say I had never watched an episode of was Friends. I think that was a very long time ago. Never seen Duck Dynasty...never seen Breaking Bad. They are just titles with no meaning to me.

And the PC is not the same thing as TV...not even.

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Likely Guy

Huh?! UNSC members didn't ignore the WMD treaties, and I have no idea what crimes against humanity or assassinations etc. you're referring to when speaking about these member states of the Council.

But all the members of the permanent UNSC have weapons of mass destruction and all are, or were, colonial powers or powers that suppressed other nations (which requires crimes against humanity, assassinations, financial exploitation, etc...).

I can't see how you missed that.

Edit: Are you suggesting that the United States, Russia, China, the U.K. and France have lily white records? Or are you also including the temporary members of the UNSC?

I'm sorry, I need you to clarify.

Edited by Likely Guy

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Likely Guy

No...I don't really have a TV. ...Snip the crap from oozing into your soul...kill the TV.

I've been 'clean' for seven years now. I don't miss it at all.

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Yamato

But all the members of the UNSC have weapons of mass destruction and all are, or were, colonial powers or powers that suppressed other nations (which requires crimes against humanity, assassinations etcetera).

I can't see how you missed that.

I don't miss it, I just don't see how sins of the past excuse more sins in the future. I don't see why we should need perfection in our bureaucracies and perfect embodiments of the human condition in the participants in our treaties before we can respect international law. On the contrary, the fact that nobody is perfect is precisely why we have these treaties in the first place.

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Likely Guy

I just don't see how sins of the past excuse more sins in the future. I don't see why we should need perfection in our bureaucracies and perfect embodiments of the human condition in the participants in our treaties before we can respect international law. On the contrary, the fact that nobody is perfect is precisely why we have these treaties in the first place.

The part about 'sins of the past' and 'sins in the future', you'll have to make clearer for me. What are you referring to?

Israel? ...the permanent UNSC members? Iran?

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acidhead

I wouldn't know. The last TV show that I could say I had never watched an episode of was Friends. I think that was a very long time ago. Never seen Duck Dynasty...never seen Breaking Bad. They are just titles with no meaning to me.

And the PC is not the same thing as TV...not even.

It's the commercials... that's what did it for me. The mindless adverts. Totally made me quit the TV

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Space Commander Travis

But all the members of the permanent UNSC have weapons of mass destruction and all are, or were, colonial powers or powers that suppressed other nations (which requires crimes against humanity, assassinations, financial exploitation, etc...).

I can't see how you missed that.

Edit: Are you suggesting that the United States, Russia, China, the U.K. and France have lily white records? Or are you also including the temporary members of the UNSC?

I'm sorry, I need you to clarify.

Before or after they joined the UN Security Council? Well, one or two have, as we all know, but most of the crimes of Colonialism were back in the 19th c, weren't they.

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XingWi

You have to go pre-Ahmadinejad just to find a fact? I read your Zionist story there and again, what facts do you have? Colonialism would become a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb wouldn't leave anything for Israel! This is a hypothetical and valid statement, it's not a threat against Israel, like your Zionist source tried to weave by borrowing another quote from an unnamed "commentator" to infer that Rafsanjani was somehow "calling on a nuclear attack on Israel". Iranians are allowed to make theoretical statements about the balance of power in the region even as it contends with the danger of Israel's rogue nuclear arsenals.

A hypothetical statement that too in a sermon delivered on World Jerusalem Day to show Iran's solidarity with the Palestinian people. It was supposed to be an anti-zionist speech in evey way, and a politician's rhetorics to attract public support.

I always find it funny how some people use the phrase "the world's smallest country" in their attempts to portray Israel as an innocent helpless victim thinking that it would somehow justify all its attrrocities.

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